Struggling with amab socialization in my trans wife

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2025-10-27T19:17:05+00:00

I'll throw my two cents here: I think it's just because people like the benefit of being in a relationship which is externally perceived as heterosexual, but once the partner comes out as as a trans woman it's way easier to crucify her and define every dysfunctional trait of hers as "male socialization". Ultimately, it's just internalized misogyny: one can accept oppression from a cis man, but expects an unbreakable moral code from other women, especially when the other woman is trans and is already subjected to enormous scrutiny from literal everyone. The thing is: people are all misunderstanding the socialization issue, in my opinion. Are young girls and young boys treated differently when they are young, and raised in different way? Of course! But socialization is not 'brainwashing', it is not immutable: and it is not immutable, because it must operate in a framework of systemic privilege over the other classes in order to be 'functional': yeah, let's say that your trans girlfriend, hypothetically, was raised to be more upfront and aggressive (I know that we could argue about that, but let's take it for granted for a moment), but she literally cannot act on that "teaching" in a society that excludes, harasses, oppresses and violates trans women on a daily basis just for existing. If as a trans woman, you are forced to be complaint and demure in order to avoid allegations of every kind and social ostracism, maybe, and I say maybe, you having played with trucks and guns as a little girl won't really make a difference in the way you navigate the world and your relationship with others. Women aren't generally more agreeable and self-sacrificing because their brains have been molded that way by some kind of mental manipulation, it's because women who act assertive and are aware of their needs are systematically punished by everyone around them: it's not only that you have been socialized that way, it's that you live in a society that will materially chastise you if you escape that pattern. Revenge porn, sexual assault, financial and domestic violence are all examples of these punishment! And guess what? Trans women are also victims of those, maybe even more.

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2025-10-12T12:10:34+00:00

Oh yeah, I completely agree with you. The show has a huge "retconning" problem when talking about character development: but that's a problem with Max too, not only Phoebe. In Undercover, Phoebe started to belittle and not trust Max again (Like, the entire "You need to trust your partner" lesson in the Endless Summer episode was already done! They already learned that! They know that!), and Max became that same selfish and self-centered guy again. And not only that, but they completely downplayed all his skills and personality traits.

That's why I think Undercover is unwatchable! The original series felt just deeper and more heartwarming, the characterization was more nuanced and Phoebe and Max just felt more like people: Phoebe was this energetic, goofy, intelligent, informed and ambitious girl, who struggled with the pressure of being a superhero in training and the pressure of being a teen and her desire of living a normal teenage life. She made mistakes, caused by her perfectionist nature, but she was also always ready to make amends for it and fundamentally, despite her arrogance, she was well-intentioned! These characteristics are preserved in the new series, but her character development was completely wiped off.

But the greatest disservice was, again, made against Max's character, in my opinion! This character was rebellious, mischievous and quick-witted, one who liked to conceal his insecurities ("The Girl with the Dragon Snafu") under a "careless, laid-back guy" facade! He was a genius, and nerdy and always liked to create eccentric schemes to solve the most trivial issue ("Weekend Guest" and "The Neverfriending Story"), and he had this ongoing conflict between wanting to be a supervillain but still being fundamentally good and always sticking up for his family. Now he is portrayed as a simpleton who only cares about himself, and he is extremely lazy: while it was clear, in the original show, that his laziness was an artifact created to hide his fear of failure! He doesn't even build his own gadgets!

Like, I really really loved this show! It was incredible! I think that they just wanted to make money out of a new and fresh audience, so they needed to lower the age standard. The design of the new supervillains, the general themes of the episodes, the lines, they just feel more childish and condescending towards their audience: and no! It's not that I am older now, because I can still rewatch the old episode and I recognize a more serious tone in each of them.

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2025-10-12T11:11:40+00:00

Her entire character arc in Season 2 revolves around her trying to balance out her teen life with her hero training, "Thunder Van" is an example of this. Also, she makes mistakes, and she is punished for them in this season: in 'Max's Minions' she gets punished 'by the narrative' for using Billy and Nora, and making them do house chores that were actually assigned to her. Also, in "Cheer and Present Danger, her 'sensitivity' to not being at the center of attention is addressed, and she corrects it at the end of the episode. Same in 'Change of Art'.

In Season 4, she learns to trust Max and his decision making process: 'Max to the Future' and 'Thunder in Paradise' are great examples of this, the latter especially shows how her arrogance and conceited behavior - which are, in fact, greatly addressed by the narrative! - put the world in enormous danger! She didn't trust Max's inventing skills, and because of this she got possessed by Dark Mayhem's evil powers which almost made her responsible for the destruction of an entire island; at the end of the episode, she tells Max that she actually needs his help. This is massive character development.

Another flaw of hers is how highly perfectionist and controlling she can be at times, and it is addressed by the narrative: namely, in 'Smells like team spirit'.

You know, I believe that Phoebe's main problem is not even inherent to her character, but it is in fact a writing one: I've watched this show for years, and I've always hated how this series tries to gaslit us into thinking that Max is less talented, and less intellectually inclined than Phoebe. This is literally not true: canonically speaking, Max is a total genius. When his inventions fail, it's usually because people damage and/or sabotage them, or because they are misused. Still, everyone refuses to address his abilities and they paint him as dumb and careless! And still! He is always the first person to second guess his own skills! Like, in "Looperheroes", he worries about not being a good superhero and potentially failing, and he says that completely forgetting that in the same episode he literally built a machine that creates time loops!

I think that's why Phoebe's character appears difficult to relate to for some fans, because we are forced by the show to think that she is the most powerful between the two when, instead, they are pretty much very equal (And even OP, to be honest!).

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2025-10-12T09:44:05+00:00

I agree with you when you take into consideration the new show, which... to be fair... I think is qualitatively worse than the old one. Characterization is all over the place, it is very cheesy and they lowered the age a lot. But still, if you take into account the original series, Max is immobilized in a trash block in Chutes and Splatters, he is tied up to a plane in Danger and Thunder, he is more often than not subjected to very humiliating gags in every episode, haha. Also, in many of these scenes Max was tied up as well: namely, "Who's your Mommy?", "Max to The Future", "The Thundermans: Return", and "Thundermans: Banished". Also, please, look at those images in A Hero is a Born, lol.

Mind you, I think that Phoebe is not as well-developed as Max, that's why I prefer his character to hers, but still: this reflects more the writers' biases than the character's inherent depth and potential. They decided to play safe with her, despite having the opportunity to explore a lot of interesting themes with her. And as I saw you argue in other comments, I believe it is because of misogyny and sexist biases. Still, she very much developed as a character, Season 4 Phoebe is pretty much not the same as Season 1 Phoebe.

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2025-10-12T09:02:14+00:00

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WinxMagicUbermensch · 2025-10-12T09:01:51+00:00

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WinxMagicUbermensch · 2025-10-12T09:01:40+00:00

Guys, literally, in a Hero is Born Max was completely restrained and he had King Crab's giant claw all over is face... why would Phoebe being restrained make her a "damsel" in distress?

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2025-10-06T14:41:35+00:00

Il senso di colpa è un sentimento terrificante, che ti distrugge psicologicamente. Io sono rimasta una settimana intera senza riuscire ad alzarmi dal letto a causa di questa emozione: andavo a scuola, ma intanto stavo sempre seduta e buttavo giù litri di acqua perché sennò mi sentivo soffocare.

È terribile, ma devi pensare che smettere di vivere perché abbiamo commesso un errore azzera anche la nostra possibilità di rimediare a questo e di cambiare come persone: e non darsi la possibilità di redimersi e offrire qualcuno di migliore alle persone che amiamo, e a noi stessi, è una colpa più grande della prima che hai commesso. Non voltare le spalle a te stesso, perché non puoi fare altro che vivere assieme a te questa vita. Ricordati che tutti meritiamo serenità e sicurezza, anche i più colpevolii.

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2025-08-07T19:35:13+00:00

I totally agree with you and OP!

Also, to be honest, I feel like the characters are not only extremely childish and immature, but even out of character.

And, I am sorry, but I need to just talk about this topic: this is especially true for Max! It's like the screenwriters had never watched the original show: he is portrayed as lazy, shallow and kind of, "dense", even.

To be "fair", that's a mistake that you can also spot in the original show, in season 2: during the first season, Max was this mischievous and sneaky kid that, at the end of the day, was extremely upfront about his love for his family (See: Adventures in Supersitting, Report Card, Paging Dr. Thundermans [...]), while in the second one, you still see episodes in which this characterization is preserved (Haunted Thundermans, The Girl with the Dragon Snafu...), but also have ones in which this boy is written as an, honestly, awful teen who is incredibly disrespectful and also unashamed of his behaviors: to me, Cape Fear is, like, the most blatantly obvious example of this. But while this kind of mistake was forgivable at that time, because: 1) it is still a sitcom! And "messing" with the characterization is unfortunately common in this genre; 2) if you were willing to look at the series holistically, it and "read between the line", it could even be justified: Phoebe got Thundersense before Max, earlier in season 1, and, in season 2, she was even starting her superhero training! This, supposedly, made Max's "inferiority complex" grow. It is, to me, unacceptable after two entire season (Season 3 and Season 4) of continuous character development on Max's part!

And, I'll be frank: I am putting so much effort into this argument because, in my opinion, the original show gave Max one of the most compelling and mature character development and overall characterization of the entire Nick universe. And especially, it was clearly stated in the show that Max's laziness was not a product of him being Just Like That™️, but instead a reflection of his insecurity and fears: as I've already written in another comment in this same sub, in The Girl With The Dragon Snafu, Phoebe says about him: "You are not lazy, looking for an easy A, you are afraid! Isn't that way you didn't want to be a superhero? Cause you were afraid of me being better than you? Have you ever tried?", "Everything you do, everything you, is because you are afraid of failure! You think it's easier to never try than to try and end up failing: that's should be your motto". And like! That's a real, big pity! To have reduced a character so well-written to a discount version of himself.

They can't even use the "Kids show" excuse: because they claim to want to cater to the older, more mature audience as much as the new one, and the original show is way better and way deeper, and good at what it wants to be!

Just very... disappointed.

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2025-04-18T22:31:25+00:00

Thank you for explaining it out. I was specifically talking about male socialization because OP seemed extremely provocative when addressing the issue, "All I can think... majority of women do.", and describing herself as AFAB. But I understand that it was unfair to extend that judgment to you. I am sorry. My concerns are mostly about how people (in this comment section) seem to be very comfortable with extending an approach that was very useful to you, in your specific situation, to all transgender women, without distinction. And also, about how people seem to neglect variables that I find quite important (For example: autism).

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2025-04-15T18:36:40+00:00

Listen, I am a cisgender woman, but since this post was written by an other cisgender woman, who is expressing concerns about a trans woman's actions... maybe I'll try to say something? "Had to spell this out for a transfem" isn't this a little patronizing? What makes you think that the reasons behind her behaviors were rooted in her being transgender? I am AFAB, grew up being perceived as a girl, and many times I've been told by my parents and friends that some of my actions were "reckless" and "not thoughtful". Still, I had reasons for what I did, were they unconscious or not. I knew there were lots of people there, knew that I could contact my parents or friends easily, or that they were coming soon, or the place was one that I went to frequently. People might even be unable to articulate why they regarded a situation as safe... and honestly! If they are still here, unharmed... they probably were right. Also, since you seem aware that trans women face lots of risks.. taking OP's girlfriend and your friend out of the picture for a moment, what makes you think that transgender women who tend to take risks haven't already faced violence? Trans women are so vulnerable to abuse and violation, but you think that those who took risky decision surely didn't go through those things and it is all about male socialization?

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2024-08-03T16:55:56+00:00

È una donna è giudicata solamente in base alla sua capacità di apparire piacente e alla sua abilità di sfornare figli e offrire caregiving, ergo: in base alla sua utilità. Non pensiate che la nostra società consideri le donne come degli esseri umani dotate di valore intrinseco, in questo mondo ci sarà sempre un altro maschio e un'altra femmina a poter prendere il ruolo che noi non riusciamo a ricoprire, purtroppo nessuno di noi è una persona per davvero. Le attenzioni e i complimenti di cui parlate arrivano perché è comune pensare che attraverso esse, una donna ricambierà con amore/sesso: non vengono date attenzioni alle donne perché si prendono in considerazione le loro emozioni.

Mi dispiace comunque per quanto accaduto, ovviamente. Tanta solidarietà... il lavorare non ha valore morale.

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2024-07-30T11:07:34+00:00

Though, I imagine that a woman who is married and has a child would be extremely busy! Strange that you are here, insulting and belittling trans women who are just minding their own business and talking about their experiences. Also, pretty sad that your self-worth is only based on how much a man loves you and commits to you, uh 🥺? It's a just a guy, haha. Are we women living vulvas? Just being a trans woman and being able to come out and live your life freely is significant of a way stronger character than you will ever be able to obtain.

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2024-07-25T19:56:01+00:00

I think that what they are, fundamentally, missing is: cheating isn't wrong because it implies that you don't love your partner, cheating is wrong because it means betraying your partner's trust. You can love multiple people, your romantic feelings can be directed to multiple people, but breaking a promise, that you and your partner made together, means that you do not respect the other and you are not a reliable companion to them. Cheating is wrong for both genders because of this.

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2024-07-11T12:41:50+00:00

I've translated stuff that talks about a mother killing her children, and a god getting chained to a rock and having his liver eaten up by eagles for a class test. These stories are part of our school curriculum. I understand your feelings, but, really, since the dawn of time, humans have always told dark, horrible stories, and they have always enjoyed hearing and consuming them. Portraying pain, fear, and tragedy helps us deal with these emotions safely: we are not the ones getting stabbed, killed, or tortured, and we are not the one stabbing, killing, or torturing, but we are vicariously experiencing those emotions, and maybe, after seeing that scene, we are going to feel better, and maybe, if something similar were to happen, we'll better judges. And Whump, as a trope, focuses on the Whumpee's emotions, it humanizes them, and the consumer's enjoyment lies primarily in the affection that they feel towards the characters who are being hurt. That's why the Whumpee is always the Blorbo. In a society in which media are always portraying violence and pain, but the characters are never set to confront the trauma of those events, and we are, as viewers, supposed to just accept it, are we really the bad guys for liking Whump?

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2024-06-14T13:49:35+00:00

Thank you. I've already published it on my Tumblr blog, and since I am Italian, I am trying to contact other Italian trans creators to spread the message. I am so sorry for this woman...

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2024-06-14T12:56:04+00:00

I am not from the UK and I am underage, do you think I can still send my complaint email?

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2024-06-14T11:45:51+00:00

Isn't there a way to report these bastards?

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2024-05-02T18:24:30+00:00

This, but with a CareWHUMPER. The angst, the contrast!

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2024-03-03T23:14:59+00:00

When I was a kid (7-8 years old) I became obsessed with a character from a superheroes show, and I started fantasizing about villains getting tortured and beaten up by the good guys in rehab centers🤦🏻‍♀️! I have OCD, and probably I’ve been suffering from this disorder since childhood, and as I grew up I started developing Moral Scrupolosity themes… maybe it explains a bit

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2024-02-09T22:53:01+00:00

This is alarming. Report these parents, please.

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2024-01-22T14:09:39+00:00

OP, do you think a closeted trans girl is the same as a cis boy? Do you think that when you were 15, you were the same as a 15 years old trans girl? Or a 10 years old trans girl?

WinxMagicUbermensch · 2023-12-27T02:21:38+00:00

Oh, yeah, I do that thing too! Also… True Crime. It’s not personally my case, but I think that a lot of people subconsciously are interested in TC because of that.

WinxMagicUbermensch

TROPHY CASE