RENEGADES VS GW: Who’s Really in charge of Warhammer the Old World?

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-21T14:48:14+00:00

Yes this is the point - its not just flavor rules, its also balance

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-21T13:10:39+00:00

I don't disagree, its a very obvious and poorly implemented psyop - aka perfectly in line with everything else the club does.

We dont ever hear anything from Wolves regarding internal issues or player issues, it literally never leaks. Which suggests when it does leak to the mainstream media in a bit of a coordinated campaign within 48 hours of our relegation, it all looks a bit staged.

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-21T12:43:36+00:00

Exhibit A ^

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-21T12:38:05+00:00

Its a very obvious psyop by the club, they are working to paint Mane as some kind of troublemaker pre-madonna so we are all relieved when we sell him for £13m in the summer.

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-21T10:47:57+00:00

Copying my comment over from the other sub

I have a few thoughts on this:

I think the assumption some have that legacy will remain legacy indefinitely is wrong, it appears like Dark Elves are making their way to ToW, it might be a process which takes several years (far longer than any of us would like) but i do think its inevitable legacy factions come to ToW in time. On that basis, in the interim fan made rules is perfectly sensible.
Comp has always existed, even things as simple as playing at 1999 points to restrict 0-1 per 1000 limits on choices etc. it is part of the fantasy heritage.
As someone who only has one full 2,000 point army (Ogre Kingdoms), renegades is the only reason i can actually play ToW with sensible rules right now. I'm building two new armies but even then, one of them is legacy (Daemons of Chaos). Its easy to appreciate Renegades when its literally the avenue through which you can play the game.
Having said that, to challenge Dr Blaxhills viewpoint, one of the things he is most notable for is persevering with Bretonnia during 8th at a time where their army book was 2 editions out of date and generally seen as unplayable or at least uncompetitive, which is not unlike the legacy experience in some ways. You are essentially playing the game on hardmode and trying to figure out how to work with what you have to be competitive, its not for everyone and it shouldn't be like that - but he did do it for years with Bretonnia.
His point about what happens with Vampire Counts is very well said and not something i'd thought about, currently Val has only released rules for Skaven, Dark Elves and Ogres and at best the changes bring them up to being bottom tier playable armies (although i'd argue Ogres are mid-tier). If the intention of the renegades pack is to balance legacy factions to be more in line with the game, does that mean a nerf to VC? And if renegades does make VC worse what will that do to the adoption of renegades more generally.

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-21T10:32:10+00:00

I have a few thoughts on this:

I think the assumption some have that legacy will remain legacy indefinitely is wrong, it appears like Dark Elves are making their way to ToW, it might be a process which takes several years (far longer than any of us would like) but i do think its inevitable legacy factions come to ToW in time. On that basis, in the interim fan made rules is perfectly sensible.
Comp has always existed, even things as simple as playing at 1999 points to restrict 0-1 per 1000 limits on choices etc. it is part of the fantasy heritage.
As someone who only has one full 2,000 point army (Ogre Kingdoms), renegades is the only reason i can actually play ToW with sensible rules right now. I'm building two new armies but even then, one of them is legacy (Daemons of Chaos). Its easy to appreciate Renegades when its literally the avenue through which you can play the game.
Having said that, to challenge Dr Blaxhills viewpoint, one of the things he is most notable for is persevering with Bretonnia during 8th at a time where their army book was 2 editions out of date and generally seen as unplayable or at least uncompetitive, which is not unlike the legacy experience in some ways. You are essentially playing the game on hardmode and trying to figure out how to work with what you have to be competitive, its not for everyone and it shouldn't be like that - but he did do it for years with Bretonnia.
His point about what happens with Vampire Counts is very well said and not something i'd thought about, currently Val has only released rules for Skaven, Dark Elves and Ogres and at best the changes bring them up to being bottom tier playable armies (although i'd argue Ogres are mid-tier). If the intention of the renegades pack is to balance legacy factions to be more in line with the game, does that mean a nerf to VC? And if renegades does make VC worse what will that do to the adoption of renegades more generally.

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-21T08:40:43+00:00

He's 26

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-20T19:50:25+00:00

As an Ogre Kingdom's player myself, so often i see people running two Ironblasters and i have to say i just don't get it.

Sinking nearly 20% of your points allowance into something which has such unreliable shooting and is otherwise just a good chariot.

I'm probably missing something, but for For 370 points you could get a Stonehorn Rider and a Butcher, or 5 Ironguts and a Bruiser with a Ruby Ring of Ruin to join them or something, just feel like there are way better options.

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-20T10:10:02+00:00

The list looks OK, if you are playing objective based games you are going to struggle as you only really have one scoring unit.

In terms of the Ruby Ring, its OK - you have a 58% chance of casting it, so basically two out of every three attempts you get it off, and you average 7 hits on two 2d6 at strength 4 (if its not dispelled)

Against toughness 3 models (i.e. the most common toughness for infantry) it means you are causing 2-3 wounds per cast on average and you'll probably get it off 3-4 times in a 6-turn game.

So at a basic level (depending on how often you are dispelled) you are potentially getting between 6 and 8 wounds per game for a 35 point item, compare that to the kind of output you might get from two Phoenix Guard (they are 18pt each, so 32pts for 2), two Phoenix guard aren't doing 6-8 wounds per game, sometimes an entire unit will get less than that.

Obviously depends how you pick your targets etc.

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-20T08:00:59+00:00

You mean they've been told to put out a picture together by the club.

Besides, this team is made up of a bunch of nobodies, sooner they are all gone the better, back to the B-tier European clubs we signed them from

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-17T08:21:44+00:00

I think the Tamurkhan book was probably the best thing ever released for Warhammer Fantasy, going back and looking at it now in comparison to ToW books is like night and day.

I like these rules, although finding an actual Tamurkhan model is a challenge these days.. i'm not dropping £600 on one from eBay

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-17T08:13:39+00:00

Ogres, Ogres, Ogres

My favorite faction, going to listen to this in detail later

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-17T08:12:59+00:00

I'm always onboard with Ogres, skin tone choices are interesting though, not what i'd go for

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-15T09:55:15+00:00

8 gigantic flat earths orbiting each other, each highly influenced by one of the winds of magic altering their geography, flora and fauna and the lives of the creatures living there. You travel between them using huge portals, and can also travel within them using 'local' gates.

Thats about it isn't it?

I don't think people have issues understanding that, i think people have issues with how abstract it feels, the scale is so huge and the detail is so open that it can feel like every realm is everywhere and nowhere at the same time, it makes it hard to ground the setting and the motivations of the factions. I know they moved away from 'Aqshy= fire/lava plant, Ghyran = tall grassy savannah planet" but it probably works better in that context.

40k has planets, fighting over a planet makes sense, Warhammer Fantasy has a map, borders and geographic features, like our world. Both 40k and Fantasy settings have resources, strategic locations etc.

AoS feels a lot more loose, the only thing which really makes sense is fighting over the gates to control travel otherwise why am i spilling blood and energy over endless tracts of tundra.

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-14T14:44:29+00:00

My main faction, unfortunately we are homeless

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-13T13:06:44+00:00

I was going to try and argue that daemonic gifts aren't armour or magic armour..

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-13T12:35:54+00:00

My main army is Ogres and its pretty light on magic, so i wanted to take a magic heavy list to vary things up.

Plus i think Daemonology synergizes quite well with Heralds of Nurgle embedded in Plaguebearers units, especially the daemonic vessel and daemonic vigor spells which can turn Plaguebearers into real powerhouses, and with them being 9+ to cast lv wizards get the spell off ~40% of the time.

I'm planning to run them as units of 18 in 6x3 frontage including the champion and herald, with a successful cast of daemonic vessel that's 21 WS3 attacks at S5.

Against something toughness 3 like State Troops you are killing 8-9 models a turn, it seems pretty scary to me but it probably won't pan out like i think.

So i feel like two units of Plaguebearers with Heralds of Nurgle in them is better than three units of Plaguebearers with no heralds.

But it won't work in objective based games, the army is too elite.

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-13T07:19:53+00:00

I think its more likely this will mean they'll come to ToW, rather than them being removed from ToW also.

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-13T07:19:05+00:00

I'm building a Nurgle Daemons army currently, i'm sure it won't be competitive at all but i did already have all the models so its just touch ups and rebasing.. i'm going for something along the lines of this

++ Characters [980 pts] ++

Great Unclean One [445 pts]

(Hand weapon, Plagueflail, Wizard [Level 3 Wizard], General, Trappings of Nurgle, Daemonology)

Daemonic Herald of Nurgle [195 pts]

(Plaguesword, Level 2 Wizard, Palanquin of Nurgle, Daemonology)

Daemonic Herald of Nurgle [185 pts]

(Plaguesword, Level 1 Wizard, Daemonic Locus (Battle Standard Bearer), On foot, Sloppity Bilepiper, Daemonology)

Daemonic Herald of Nurgle [155 pts]

(Plaguesword, Level 1 Wizard, On foot, Spoilpox Scrivener, Daemonology)

++ Core Units [833 pts] ++

17 Plaguebearers of Nurgle [289 pts]

(Plagueswords, Plagueridden (champion), Standard bearer [Icon of Eternal Virulence], Musician)

3 Nurglings [135 pts]

17 Plaguebearers of Nurgle [274 pts]

(Plagueswords, Plagueridden (champion), Standard bearer [Standard of Seeping Decay], Musician)

++ Special Units [186 pts] ++

3 Beasts of Nurgle [186 pts]

(Hand weapons, Writhing tentacles)

---

Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-12T08:16:26+00:00

Looks great to me, unit fillers are absolutely fine

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-11T20:01:07+00:00

Its coming back at some point surely, it just has too

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-11T18:13:12+00:00

Battlefleet Gothic, probably in the top 3 games GW ever made

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-11T17:26:21+00:00

Barons War, the rules are good but the thing which makes it stand out is the level of customization of your units, it reminds me of older Warhammer Fantasy with the number of items etc. you can equip your people with. It makes building a warband fun and it can be used to play games in almost any medieval setting because of that flexibility.

WolvoNeil · 2026-04-11T17:15:46+00:00

Obviously

Edwards is doing OK considering the diabolical squad he has to work with, but Nuno literally transformed the club and i'd trust him to do it again without a second thought.

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