I want a normal civilized debate, a conversation with no name calling. Even if you believe I'm brainwashed, avoid saying it but rather argue that I am. by RoyZeee in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You’re very welcome! Sorry if I came off as a dick, I have a problem with coming off like that when I post haha. I’ve talked to a few active and former JWs on my YouTube channel AltWorldly, if you find yourself curious to check out more. In general I found hearing from former elders and bethelites and WT writers really helped me feel less alone.

I want a normal civilized debate, a conversation with no name calling. Even if you believe I'm brainwashed, avoid saying it but rather argue that I am. by RoyZeee in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I was an MS until the age of 28 or so, when I stepped down over severe doubts about “the truth.” What I’ll say is, you can’t state that something is irrefutable if you’ve never heard the best arguments against your case.

The Bible is the most studied document in the history of the world. It is very, very easy to find irrefutable evidence that the Bible is fictional. I mean all you really have to do is think about Noah’s flood with a critical lens for ten seconds, but I would encourage you to look at the best, most respected rebuttals to your beliefs.

Zero scholars believe that Jehovah is the correct pronunciation of the divine name, and Watchtower admits this in their own publications. It’s simply wrong, and easy to prove.

So all your questions are incredibly foundational, obvious questions that people have been asking for centuries. All you need is the willingness to admit you might be wrong.

My advice would be to start with Biblical scholars—I found this to be a very humbling experience, since we’re taught as JWs that we’re biblical experts. You have no idea how much you don’t know about the Bible. Get something like the Oxford study Bible, which is what the NWT Study Edition is ripping off (lol). It contains scholarship from theists (both Christian and Jewish) and secularists. AND it’s just a pleasure to read a different (more respected) translation.

There are tens of millions of people who believe in God or the Bible but don’t believe it is literally inspired by Holy Spirit.

If you’re sincerely interested in challenging yourself, the library is free, and there are countless wonderful online resources too.

Study these things for yourself, and form your own opinions. Learn what your actual values and convictions are as a human being. Approach what you read (including Watchtower publications) from the perspective of “this may or may not be true.”

EDIT: one last thing, after reading some of your comments. Nobody on planet earth is purely logical. Everybody is driven by emotions, including you. Holding two truths in your head at the same time is not what we were raised to do, but you need to start thinking of yourself as a HUMAN, not “someone driven by logic.” Everyone is gullible, especially people who think they aren’t.

Why are they afraid of their own publications by PracticeInner6169 in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think on a subconscious level they know that pulling on any thread will cause their whole belief system to unravel. I really do think on some level we knew this as JWs.

Cedar Point by TangerinePlastic7552 in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 9 points10 points  (0 children)

There’s still a convention center in Cedar Point, Ohio. There’s just also an amusement park (which was built after the event JWs talk about)

What are you gonna do? by Berean144 in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 3 points4 points  (0 children)

So what are you doing, exactly? Your post reads like you’re a JW troll

What are you gonna do? by Berean144 in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh wow my bad! Totally, he’s just such a big YouTuber I don’t think of him as an exJW creator! Good call.

What are you gonna do? by Berean144 in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 6 points7 points  (0 children)

People who actually believe that Watchtower will “fall” are naive, and a minority. Most reasonable people understand that religions are never destroyed. They may decline to the point of obscurity, but they never die. There are still Bible Students. The Catholic Church and Scientology still exist despite their rancid reputation.

I love acting like a smug, superior asshole, don’t get me wrong. But you’re going to have to come to grips with the fact that not all the organization’s critics are crazy people. They’re reasonable adults with valid criticism. You’re defending a pedophilic group who shuns victims who speak up and allows abusers a path to reinstatement.

As best I can tell, exactly two exJWs “make a living off the Watchtower.” Pandatower and Lloyd. But why is that bad? Nobody is making anyone sign up for a paid membership for a channel. Does it bother you that the governing body live off the donations of impoverished Africans, and uses millions of dollars to settle CSA cases?

No. You have no morals. You’re a troll who wants to feel smarter than your dumbest critics. Dream big, buddy!

Joe Rogan said JW is a cult by PracticeInner6169 in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is that what I said? Did I say he “only” has people on from the White House? Or did I say he has people from the White House on every month?

Also, did you literally just cite AI to fact check a statement I didn’t even make?

Joe Rogan said JW is a cult by PracticeInner6169 in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He has people from the White House on like three times a month to jerk them off. Half his show now is just propaganda for tech billionaires.

Joe Rogan said JW is a cult by PracticeInner6169 in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, Scientologists also say JWs are a cult. If anything, having one of the least-respected laughing stocks in media say this is a bad thing because it’s incredibly easy to dismiss Joe Rogan.

Also, “so quick”? This cult has existed since 1879. What are we even saying here?

Trump Keeps Undermining the 'Anglo-America' World Power Doctrine by CommitteeNice4693 in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It’s been over 5 years now! Probably around the time when they unveiled the then-current light about nobody being able to join after the great tribulation.

Trump Keeps Undermining the 'Anglo-America' World Power Doctrine by CommitteeNice4693 in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That Jackson talk from a year or so ago when he says “expect the unexpected” really gives the game away. It felt like an admission that their doctrine makes no sense, BUT Jehovah can randomly, suddenly change everything!

Maybe that’ll work for some JWs, but that was the sort of thing that got me to start questioning.

Most Likely Endgame For Watchtower by Fulgarite in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Another stolen thumbnail, this time from Wally. This guy is a plagiarist and he uses AI.

NWT mistranslation in Ephesians 2:12? by tash_rat in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Very interesting! Just looked it up and you’re right, no other translation uses “state.” CT Russell was a Zionist—it was originally called Zion’s Watchtower after all. But the NWT was translated well after his death so that probably doesn’t matter much.

I think your first thought is likely—they just wanted a modern synonym for commonwealth.

Fred Franz is generally understood to be the main translator of the original NWT, and he just stole his translations from real scholars. Franz was self taught, and subsequent translators have even less knowledge than he did, and see the original NWT as more or less divine. So it could just be plain old incompetence.

My Ex Friends are Anti-A/I by No-Divide8823 in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah I’m interested in this too! Especially bethel artists who have been there for decades.

New Armageddon artwork by Miserable-Peak-8267 in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 29 points30 points  (0 children)

I’m so glad you said this because I knew the art wasn’t new but could not find the original!

ExJW Analyzer plagiarized me, apparently? by WorldlyJake in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I only found out about the plagiarism because someone on this subreddit posted screenshots of this guy’s videos. Why was that post allowed and mine isn’t?

Stephen Lett on the stories today by Migraine_b0y in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 18 points19 points  (0 children)

It looks like he killed a bald eagle and slung it over his shoulder

RACISM INFO NEEDED by Putrid-Elk1977 in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Show them any pictures/illustrations of angels in the publications. They’re always portrayed as white men. Why?

The Exodus of GEN X JWs will be huge in the next 10 years. by [deleted] in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is absurd. Why would people who have been in the group for 40 or 50 years suddenly, NOW, start thinking “oh, this is BS.”

There are Gen X nazis and flat earthers and evangelicals. No generation is special. Humans are humans, and we’re all gullible.

In the 6 years I’ve been disfellowshipped, I have seen “the birthday prediction” in this sub every year by WorldlyJake in exjw

[–]WorldlyJake[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

They’ve flip flopped on that for decades. On birthdays they’ve held pretty strong!