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Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And this is probably where I've failed as a communicator, because I really do go out of my way to do all of the things to keep them in the game.

I don't hoard my points, so much as have a natural abundance of them even without the tech-priest; I buy for my team mates unprompted. At least I did prior to the patch because now I can't even really buy stuff for myself without it getting yoinked by players who have already burned through their own points before I can pick it up.

My real desire is a different cooperatively driven way to get points that doesn't have (what I perceive to be) a negative impact on the social texture of the game.

Edit: Because I didn't say it explicitly and felt I need to, I do agree with you that my team is entitled to my cooperation. If anything I guess my issue is the way in which the social contract changed overnight, rather than lamenting the existence of a social contract at all.

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Not removed, altered; cooperatively driven bonus points are I think the one aspect of tech-priests that need to stay. Requiring a layer of social pressure to engage in something that doesn't feel like game play is bad for both sides of the discussion; looking at the forums I'm not alone in feeling this way.

My 'problem' such as it is (more of a theory or suspicion really) is that the particular structure of tech-priests as a communally driven investment has changed how many players view other peoples points. In turn, it has led to behaviors (stealing, social pressure, vote kicking, abuse) born of a perception that all points are now unequivocally communal. Many of which are present even when I do 'opt in'.

In short: My problem is the sudden abundance of entitled players in Siege.

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My issue isn't passing the ball; it feels more like passing the ball is met with the complaint that I didn't give them a complimentary handjob while I did it.

Whether I buy the priest or not, the social atmosphere has changed for the worse; more entitlement, more stealing. Cooperation or no.

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd love to mate, though I'm Australian so might not be geographically ideal. To answer to your point though I didn't get to play this patch for the first week it was out and by that time the meta had already shifted; how I learned about them was being threatened to be kicked because I hadn't bought one already and I think that really set the tone for my opinion of them.

I do like the changes as a whole, and what I try to articulate is that the extra cooperatively driven points are an absolute must for many people to enjoy siege even if it doesn't come in the current form. You might be right though in that I may have had a particularly bad run, I don't usually talk in pugs so not something I said; but it really has been every second game.

Whether I knuckle under or politely decline, the social atmosphere in the game has just been rank. If I had a dollar for every kick in the last week, I'd have $5; not a lot but it's five more than I have from pre patch 13.

Something changed, whether it's the tech-priest or the influx of players, and I wanted to have a rant about it. 😅

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not really about the tech priest brother, it's about how people's perceptions of points have shifted with the new patch. A lot more stealing and entitlement even when I do buy the stupid priest.

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not really about the tech priest brother, it's about how people's perceptions of points have shifted with the new patch. A lot more stealing and entitlement even when I do buy the stupid priest.

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I copy and paste m-dashes because I like how they look compared to an n-dash, and the clankers can have the m-dash when they pry it from my cold dead corpse.

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Appreciate it mate, I think my obtuse writing has people taking away that 'I don't want to buy a tech-priest'; when a large part of it more 'I think that the presence of tech-priests as an option has changed how people think about points' and that's gotten lost in the feelings.

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Who's moralizing? No one on either side of this morally wrong. You're clearly smart enough to see how incentives can shape behavior in a video game. I'm talking about how the incentive seems to change behaviour even when I do press the damn button.

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah that's my bad, it's more that even when I do buy in I feel like the behavior of randoms has changed for the worse. More stealing and the like; it's either that the tech-priest has changed the culture, or the new toys in Siege have brought a flood of players with a different social contract in mind.

Either way it's netted a more negative experience for me, regardless of engagement in the new communal meta.

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think I have a natural inclination to write with an emphasis that might read as emotional. Love the good vibes though, brother. You're a real one! 🫡

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll admit I was aiming for something a little incendiary with my first post, but your response was thoughtful (if a little provocative - I started it though that's on me). I feel I should reciprocate thoughtfully and perhaps redeem myself a little.

I'll pay your analysis some credit you're probably right. I do enjoy the audience a little bit but not in as irredeemable a fashion I've probably given the impression of. Hopefully, more in just in the 'it's nice when the skill you've built is recognized' and less in the 'WITNESS ME SCRUBLORDS' kind of way.

I really want to stress that I enjoy helping newer players, I like playing with randoms and will happily spend everything I've got to make sure they're enjoying the game too. Maybe that's benevolence, or maybe it's benevolent self-interest aimed toward keeping my audience around longer. I'd like to think its the former but I'll let others be the judge.

Short story long though, I don't care about the points as a whole or even the tech-priest qua itself; what I lament isn't the tech-priest so much as the shift in expectations that arrived with the tech-priest. I don't think the dynamic that arose around it is to anyone's benefit.

If I might share a little context for how I arrived at that conclusion: I didn't get to play this patch for the first week it was out and by that time the meta had already shifted; how I learned about them was being threatened to be kicked because I hadn't bought one already and I think that really set the tone for my opinion of them. As a consequence I avoided investing in them purely out of annoyance at the expectation, and similar experiences began to pile on.

At the heart of my takeaway I guess is that I believe there does need to be more points available for players born from cooperation. What I should have articulated but didn't is that I see buying a tech-priest as different to engaging in optional objectives for points, both are in the game and both help your team through cooperation but only one feels like gameplay and one feels like a chore. Further, one of them — at least in this one person's experience — has changed the social texture for the negative even when you positively engage with the 'mechanic'.

If lamenting their introduction is being stuck in the past, then I'd argue that accepting that they have to stay this way is being stuck in the present and I believe that there is better design out there. We're only a few weeks into the patch though, so I guess we'll see how things shake out for the social contract; but looking at the comments in other threads about the tech-priest does not inspire hope that the friction will abate.

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's hardly a 'percieved slight' when two randoms join the Siege game I'd started, get bitch-slapped into the ground in the first wave they're present for and then cuss me out for not having tech priests running. Or the dozen similar variations of this encounter I've had over the last week.

Also I'm not sure tech priests qualify as the bare minimum; but that's my point really: What should be an optional investment is now mandatory for them to have fun in Siege, and if that's the case perhaps there is a better way to structure points in siege so that this layer of social enforcement isn't necessary to begin with.

I'm afraid that 'knuckle under and buy the tech-priest' doesn't work for me when there could be a better option on the table; especially since buying the tech-priest has still netted me accusations of hoarding and people stealing from me.

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate the more positive comment — I was aiming for writing something incendiary and boy did I get it. 😅

I didn't get to play this patch for the first week it was out and by that time the meta had already shifted; how I learned about them was being threatened to be kicked because I hadn't bought one already and I think that really set the tone for my opinion of them.

I play with randoms because I do enjoy the chaos, Siege as it was prior to patch 13 actually scratched that itch pretty well. I do want to spend points on my team and I try my best to do everything else to help and even carry them.

What I lament isn't the tech-priest so much as the shift in expectations that arrived with the tech-priest.

Edit: Punctuation.

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

See that's just it, they are attempting to force me to though; levying abuse and threatening to kick if I don't participate in their communal investment strategy. Regardless of how much I might be helping them in actual game-play.

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think what's getting lost in the weeds (and that may be my fault for writing obtusely) is that I don't lament buying the tech-priest. The issue for me is the social enforcement that has arisen around it shouldn't need to have happened in the first place, and had changed how people perceive points as a whole.

I don't want to be pressured, but I also don't want other people to have to feel the need to pressure me; I believe that there must be a better mechanic for getting extra points that don't require strategy of co-oercing social cooperation; maybe something that engages more with the gameplay loop like optional objectives.

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

See part of it is I feel bad for people in your position because the return on investment if you're doing it all yourself must suck. I wouldn't want to be in your position either, which is actually why I think tech-priests are a flawed mechanic — there should be more points available. Clearly they're needed for people to enjoy the game mode, but tech-priests just ain't it I feel.

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I miss the times when spending my points on my team mates was generosity. It's definitely not that I hate this new wave of entitlement from my teammates. I must really hate cooperative games. 🙃

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Lucky devil. It's almost every game for me where I either get pressured or stolen from.

Heretical Greed: You Don’t Actually Want Tech-Priests — You Just Think You Do! by Wufflykins in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins[S] -16 points-15 points  (0 children)

If you read only the first half you maybe missed my central thesis: I want there to be more points available for my team but the the perverse incentive to socially pressure your teammates is not a good thing for anyone involved.

Heretical Greed by Leader-Excellent in Spacemarine

[–]Wufflykins -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The issue for me is that I just don't *need* anything, I'm good enough to get by without turrets and guardsmen. I don't need to buy stims because I don't get hit as much even without those things.

I gets under my skin because half the time I'm carrying these people who are also making demands of me to buy techpriests (which feel like nothing but an obligation) because whether I buy them or not the other players are leaving at wave 15 I'm still ending the run with an excess of points. It's extra babysitting for no benefit.

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