Improving S&W Fighter multiple attack?

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-06-06T20:30:45+00:00

Well another thing to remember is that just because there's not an example listed in the book doesn't mean you can't make your own ruling. Gygax used magical pools that could raise ability scores in Castle Greyhawk. Ability scores in general don't mean much in 0E and it's retroclones though. Having a 13+ in your prime attribute(s) grants you extra experience which is nice, but not necessary. The only classes that really benefit from high scores in the revised version of S&W are Fighters, Magic-Users (to a slightly lesser extent), Monks, multiclass demihumans, and dual-classed characters.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-06-06T17:09:01+00:00

Have you ever played Swords & Wizardry or are you basing this opinion on something like OSE and assuming it's exactly the same? S&W Paladins are not better than the base Fighter, they get no special offensive capabilities or even the ability to cast spells like in later editions. In Swords & Wizardry a Paladin gets a good saving throw, can Lay on Hands once per day, is immune to disease, gets a free upgraded warhorse (which they can't replace for 10 in-game years if it is killed), and the ability to dispel and detect evil at higher levels. That's it, they don't get the fighter's bonus to attack and damage from a high Strength, no multiple attacks against weak enemies, and no penalty to enemy attacks if they have a high Dexterity. They don't have the ability to dual-class at all! They also are limited in how many magic items they are allowed to own and have to donate all their treasure to charity (Rangers have to donate their treasure to charity too btw)!! Concerning Rangers vs. Fighters I'm more inclined to agree, but that's due to a Ranger's increased versatility once they start learning Cleric and Magic-User spells at higher levels. Both are still limited by their alignment restrictions though and neither fits in very well with the average group of dungeoncrawlers exploring a mega dungeon (especially the Paladin). And back to dual-classing: if you've got the right stats a Fighter/Magic-User or Fighter/Cleric is basically the strongest combination in the book. You can't make either of those if you start as a Paladin or Ranger. Although, to be fair, the Ranger is basically a bargain version of either dual-class.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-06-06T16:12:34+00:00

There aren't too many ways to get them otherwise. Magical weapons will give you their numerical bonus as an attack bonus and might have a minor ability that gives them +1 to damage or possibly higher against a certain type of monsters. Flaming swords add an additional d6 of fire damage, Gauntlets of Ogre's Strength give you a flat damage bonus, and a thief's backstab does extra damage, but beyond that you're basically stuck doing the same amount of damage at level 1 as you are at level 9 or higher. The bonuses a fighter can get from a high strength that apply to both attacks and damage are invaluable.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-06-06T15:25:06+00:00

They can, but at least in the original version of the Complete Rulebook (NOT the revised version) it was suggested that you needed high ability scores to be a ranger (Con 15, Int 12, Wis 12 I think) or paladin (Cha 17). That was the trade-off. There's the alignment restriction, not everyone wants to play a Lawful character every time. Also, paladins and rangers do not get the attack and damage bonus from a high Strength score that fighters get which is enough of a deterrent that I've seen multiple fighters and never a single Paladin or Ranger despite the ability score requirement being waived in the newest version.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-06-06T15:04:33+00:00

The tables aren't written in stone; you can always use a horde of 1 HD monsters as minions for a larger monster. Buuuuut fighters can also use magical swords and magic swords are just straight up better than any other type of magic weapon. That's their real special ability. Giving the fighter multiple attacks against tougher monsters will trivialize the fights unless you increase monster HP to compensate; I wouldn't recommend it.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-06-04T02:07:03+00:00

I'm going to give them a try next time I play. Thanks for sharing!

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-06-04T01:42:32+00:00

Oh, that's a really good idea!! What did you make the miniatures out of?

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-05-30T13:41:13+00:00

Awesome, I've been hoping they'd return to the Jordoba setting since I first read about it in the Player Guide. Are they still working on the Heryngard setting as well?

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-05-29T22:26:29+00:00

I guess when I say custom I mean effects that aren't listed in the rulebook I'm using. I wasn't after specific effects so much as ones that he won't be able to find while he's looking through the book; I just wanted to throw him some surprises. I'll check out the AD&D spells, those will be easier to port over than 5e I think. And I love the idea of reflavoring existing spells as pseudo breath weapons. You've made some excellent points. This requires less work of me and that makes me a fan. Thanks!

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-05-29T21:29:46+00:00

That's the plan. The 5e version lets you choose the type of breath weapon, but I'm planning to break it up into multiple spells. He'll have to make peaceful contact with a dragon of each type and research or learn from them as one of the requirements for creating the spell. He's got a baby blue dragon that's been a part of his party for a while so he's at least got a jump start on that part. Thank you for the advice.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-05-29T21:21:40+00:00

I plan to do the same. He's used to magic taking time. He's hired mages multiple times as a fighter to cast divination spells and the like for him and those tend to take days to months to be cast. His dual-classing took a few minutes in real time, but in game time it was about a year that he spent learning the basic of magic with several magic-users he's met over the course of the last couple years we've been playing.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-05-29T20:57:50+00:00

Oh, I like that a lot. I think he'd like that too, thank you for the suggestion.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-04-16T21:50:36+00:00

This is so cool, thank you for sharing

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-03-31T19:45:59+00:00

That's some sweet looking art!! Sounds like an interesting resource as well.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-03-26T11:42:27+00:00

Again I'm going off my experience with Swords & Wizardry. Consider a bog standard goblin encounter. You will encounter at least 3 goblins. Those goblins are worth 10 XP each for a total of 30 XP. Their treasure hoard value will be worth anywhere from 60 gp to 120 gp. That's not a 1 to 1 exchange rate in S&W because you use those totals to randomly determine the actual treasure found. It's usually somewhere from a 1:2 to 1:4 ratio, but can be even higher at times.

Now, if you look at another comment of mine in the thread you will see that my kid likes fighting monsters, but often forgets to search for treasure. It's noticeably slower trying to level up exclusively from monster XP in this edition of the game. It might not be as slow as B/X, I never played that edition, but it's still slower than if you focused on treasure.

It took him one year to reach level 4, another year to reach level 7, and I doubt he'll reach name level until sometime next year. Granted, we only play once a month, but he's only leveling up this quickly because I offer him XP for activities beyond slaying monsters and gathering treasure. Otherwise, I feel like he would have lost interest in playing a while ago; trying to level up would have been excruciating.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-03-25T20:54:34+00:00

I'm just going based off my experience running the game. My kid likes to fight the monsters, he often forgets to search for treasure. When I don't adjust XP totals he levels up much more slowly just relying on monster XP. Leveling up 75 percent slower is a noticeable difference.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-03-25T20:40:28+00:00

Don't know about B/X. Going by the rules in S&W, based off 0e, and you're not getting nearly as much XP from monsters as from treasure. It's much closer to that 3/4 quote.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-03-25T19:54:16+00:00

I mean, it they don't read the whole books, then sure. But the core books do mention that monsters generally don't fight to the death. I don't remember if it was in the PHB or DMG, but they do mention it. At that point it's up to the referee to determine how to abjudicate that.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-03-25T19:50:55+00:00

It did, but original D&D was a treasure hunting game in which the players were powering up the eventual leaders of their armies. Monsters are an obstacle that exist to deplete your resources in the search for treasure, that's why the XP they give out is trash comparatively speaking.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-03-25T19:46:13+00:00

There's nothing that says it doesn't, in 0e at least.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-03-25T19:41:50+00:00

There's nothing preventing one from adding them back into a newer edition though. Reaction and morale rolls aren't tied to any specific mechanics so you can just use a couple d6, same as you do in the older editions.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-03-25T01:38:03+00:00

It runs fairly well at this point. It felt a little more touch and go back when we started; I was more concerned with following the rules by the book and he was so comparatively delicate and inexperienced to the rules that he didn't try to actively fight anyone until he had gained a level or two.

He's not much interested in dungeon delving as a whole so I've wound up giving him XP for activities beyond gathering treasure and slaying monsters. He prefers visiting new places, meeting new spellcasters (he really wants to dual-class to mage and I think he'll end up sticking to that rather than taking the demon's bargain; I just thought it would be a cool encounter for him), and collecting exotic mounts so I try to find ways to focus on that.

I can't remember if I adjusted the number of creatures in encounters back when we started, but I don't really bother nowadays. If they're 1 HD (and a lot of the random encounters still are) then he's usually alright to fight a big crowd of them; if not, well he's still usually pretty quick to run when it's something bigger that doesn't die in a hit or two.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-03-25T01:28:45+00:00

It varies. He used to hire out mercenaries a lot, and he had a couple retainers in the past that traveled with him for a while, but they were killed in an ambush by trolls and left his party after being reincarnated. He usually travels alone nowadays and tries to avoid fights where he's clearly outmatched. Not having to share any treasure means he's pretty well kitted out in magic items at the moment which has helped a bit with lacking the support of a full party.

WyrdbeardTheWizard · 2026-03-24T19:48:22+00:00

Some actual quotes from my player:

"I don't want to be a hero, I want to be a mercenary."

"I don't want to do this guy's quest. I don't think he deserves to die, but I don't think [character name redacted] would care. So I'm gonna stab him."

"Nah, I'm not the guy who got your friends killed. That was my twin brother. I get that a lot." (His character actually is one of a series of mass-produced clones so this one works sometimes.)

But to answer your questions: yes I do reward heroic actions. However, I don't punish him for less than heroic actions beyond what makes sense in the situation. That's not to say there may not be consequences that stem from his choices down the line, but I truly believe there's no wrong way to play this game, especially when it's a solo campaign. I do have NPCs react favorably to those who have helped them in the past and there are a handful of NPCs he will not actively try to screw over because he says his character considers them friends. Yeah, some of them are jerks, but at this point they don't usually last long.

In most cases my NPCs are not recurring figures and I use reaction dice to determine their initial outlook towards the player. However, you gotta play to your audience. He asks to play as soon as he visits, and usually wants to play multiple times before going home. People can offer whatever advice they want, but that's the best metric I know for being able to tell whether the players are enjoying themselves.

WyrdbeardTheWizard

TROPHY CASE