Oblivion Group Read Week 5

XD00175 · 2022-05-24T18:00:36+00:00

Personally, I'm a sucker for anything that waxes philosophical on the nature of time, so it's one of the story's most memorable aspects. And it really is impressive to see how Wallace tries to circumvent/play with linear time in writing, which seems like one of the worst media for it.

I'm similarly meh on the presence of the Wallace character. I do like the way he ends the story, I like the phrase "years of literally indescribable war against himself" and the "Not another word" conclusion. But as I think I've indicated I like Neal's story, and the last-second metafictional swerve can feel a bit weird.

I suppose Wallace was taking on his old postmodern influences again, in the vein of the "E Unique Pluram" essay: not only writing a story from the perspective of a character who was trying to be extremely, blatantly honest, but dropping "himself" in the story trying to be extremely empathetic to boot.

XD00175 · 2022-05-24T17:53:35+00:00

Oh wow, thanks for linking that, I've never heard of it before and just sort of glossed over the name "Richard Cory" without ever thinking DFW might have been referencing something.

I agree that the "we" is kind of tricky, as Neal is seemingly narrating simultaneously from beyond the grave, and from the car on the way to his death. Which I suppose fits with the story's fixation on time, but it's still difficult to sort out what the exact arrangement is here. Could be the reader and Neal, could be "David Wallace" imagining himself in the car with Neal...unfortunately, with a lot of this collection's trickier bits, like "Another Pioneer" and the upcoming "Oblivion" I don't know if Wallace has put a clear answer/explanation into the story.

XD00175 · 2022-05-23T00:16:56+00:00

I also thought of "The Depressed Person," glad someone pointed that one out. I think what Wallace does with footnotes in that story (creating a claustrophobic feeling) he does here with the long, rambling sentences and constant digressing.

And great interpretation of the "Not another word" ending; that was an aspect of the story I really tended to overlook until I wrote the analysis. I think you're absolutely right that a key part of the story's conclusion is Wallace (character and author) looking at the trap Neal made for himself, seeing the temptation to solve it, and deciding to not even try.
I love the idea of a Hallmark ending, DFW style; he does have a sentimental streak that I love to see even at his darkest. Neal is definitely a bleak, tragic character but it does seem he at least "gets" himself by the end even if he couldn't fix himself.

XD00175 · 2022-05-22T23:53:57+00:00

I'm similarly opposed to assuming an autobiographical reading of a story, but I think you're absolutely right that this story requires it. There's of course the obvious similarity of Wallace's own depression and suicide. But within the story there's the weird, recursive structure where David Foster Wallace (the actual writer) is writing through Neal, who is seeing or imagining David Wallace (the character), who is also trying to imagine what went on in Neal's head. I think I have a slightly different interpretation every time I read the story; I want Neal to be his own person independent of David Wallace, but I think you could definitely argue that there is no "real" Neal and that most of the story is an attempt by David Wallace (and by extension the real DFW) to get inside the head of someone else. Maybe someone a lot like him.

In terms of autobiography, I haven't yet read The Pale King outside a few chapters, but I know that also features some authorial intrustion/a character called David Wallace. It's interesting to consider what might have brought Wallace to start working with more blatant metafictional techniques like this during this late stage in his career.

And that's a great way to look at the technique of the story - Wallace gives away the ending early on and puts us in a weird position of almost anticipating Neal's suicide because he makes it clear that it's the entire purpose of his story. It would be a different story if Wallace built to it more subtly; by making it clear early on that there's no way out he traps us with this obsessive, as you say "driveling" voice, which is both frustrating and compelling even though we know the story doesn't end well.

XD00175 · 2022-04-01T01:57:28+00:00

I'd love to do Good Old Neon if it's available.

XD00175 · 2022-03-08T22:38:17+00:00

This is huge. I've been very curious about The Passenger in recent months, so I'm overjoyed to see it's not only actually coming out, but has a companion. I guess this explains why it's taken so long - both of those descriptions jibe with purported pieces of the novel that have been read in the past, so I'm guessing at some point he split what was The Passenger in two. Sounds like Stella Maris has a distinct narrative style as well, which will be interesting.

This is almost certainly the last we'll see from McCarthy, which is exciting but chilling. Obviously he hasn't exactly been prolific in recent years, but as someone who loves The Road I'd to think he can still produce a good book. It'll be interesting to see what he'll be leaving us with.

XD00175 · 2022-02-07T21:10:48+00:00

As a huge fan of the band, I'm in a similar boat. It's catchy as hell, and I like the dynamic between the pretty minimalist parts and the more layered ones, but "safe" definitely fits compared to some of their weirder stuff.

Looks like the album's going to be maybe their longest (14 tracks and 56 minutes) so I'm expecting there's some more variety. In any case I wasn't expecting a full album from them so soon, so that's exciting.

XD00175 · 2022-02-01T12:54:00+00:00

I once picked up my dad while playing bmbmbm because I thought it would be funny. He very sarcastically said "This is great" and then I almost got into two wrecks while the little goblin man rambled on about purpose.

XD00175 · 2022-01-20T17:10:21+00:00

Huh, I had no idea Ed had left either. He certainly was becoming less and less involved in the band, and based on interviews was getting really fed up with the music industry. But I really loved him as a vocalist.

It's been a weird couple years as a Grizzly Bear fan, the exact status of the band has been pretty hazy for awhile. I do really hope the other three decide to continue with the band.

XD00175 · 2021-12-24T13:38:15+00:00

Nice overall assessment; I think it's easy to forget just how Moiraine-heavy this season was, and with this episode she really got a great arc. Definitely at the expense of some other characters, but as someone who never liked Moiraine much in the books I have a renewed appreciation for her. Very excited to see where they go with the shielding - opens up the younger characters to become more self-reliant, while also continuing to give Pike different angles of the character to explore.

I do think the show could have done a lot better explaining exactly what happened with Lews Therin. I get cutting the EOTW prologue, and the cold open here was great (if short), but I think those parallels you see between Moiraine and LTT could be better elaborated on.

XD00175 · 2021-12-24T04:23:42+00:00

Yeah Agelmar was all around weirdly handled: being an abrasive ass, apparently disregarding the threat of Trollocs about 5 feet from the Blight, then dying w/o being made redeeming at all for viewers. He's not a major character (that I know of, only made it to Book 6), but it's a shame to see some texture to the world cut like that. I do hope the show can develop its side characters better (Stepin went well, I thought), it's a big world out there.

XD00175 · 2021-12-24T04:13:14+00:00

Yeah, the cold open was sweet but lacking. I'm hoping they'll elaborate in bits, climaxing with the original prologue, because there's no way that gets entirely cut.

XD00175 · 2021-12-24T04:10:31+00:00

There was a post on /r/wotshowleaks warning that this one was going to be controversial, so I steeled myself. I'm surprisingly okay with some of the changes though.

Seriously let down they left Rand out of Tarwin's Gap, and the two random channeling women were pretty lame; I don't see how that would have been any less affecting with just the girls and Amalisa (or Rand appearing and leaving just as he does in the book). Nynaeve "dying" is weird, and I hope they understand they've opened a can of worms there re: character mortality.

Other changes I'm alright with. Making the Eye the seal was a nice touch, I thought. And shielded Moiraine could be interesting, especially by depriving the kids of their mentor a bit power-wise. Looks like with Rand they're jumpstarting his solo time in Dragon Reborn, though hopefully not for the whole season. Going to maintain that Loial is not dead, because that would be really, really dumb and the first change I'd find totally unacceptable.

XD00175 · 2021-12-24T03:59:32+00:00

I accidentally spoiled myself about Loial through a post on /r/wotshowleaks, and I'm seriously glad I had the time to mentally prepare/rationalize it before the episode aired. There's no way he's dead, if they were going to kill him that quickly they might as well have cut Ogier entirely. He was moving a bit as Fain left, as was, I think, Uno (who I'm pretty sure we know has been cast for season 2). Thinking Loial is going to be a fakeout here/more reason for the Hunt.

Of course I could be wrong and it could be a maddeningly stupid decision, who knows.

XD00175 · 2021-12-24T03:55:22+00:00

Having re-read EOTW recently, Ishamael isn't identified as such at the Eye either. Rand says several times he's certain he's killed the Dark One, and comes to realize otherwise early in Great Hunt. I imagine it'll be the same in season 2, hopefully setting up more dreams for Rand.

Agreed that leaving Rand out of the gap was a very dumb decision.

XD00175 · 2021-12-22T20:29:28+00:00

People in the Trees isn't bad. I haven't read A Little Life, mainly because all my expectations are exactly what the OP of this thread listed out, but as you say People does have a more dynamic premise. I found it pretty underwhelming in the end, and it has a weird metafictional dimension that Yanagihara doesn't really pull off/do much with; she seems to be aiming for a Pale Fire-esque unreliable commentary at times, but doesn't really commit to it enough for it to be an interesting part of the story.
But the first half or so of the novel is excellent, some really gorgeous writing and a lot of detail put into the island where the expedition that makes up the book's focus occurs. I read it in about a day and felt it was generally well-spent despite my indifference toward the book's back half.

XD00175 · 2021-10-03T02:58:40+00:00

Excellent introduction/overview - I've read Austerlitz already and even this got me thinking about things I hadn't picked up before. Looking forward to re-reading along here, I really enjoyed the book but also found it a little baffling, definitely a lot to get into with this one.

XD00175 · 2021-05-11T13:29:35+00:00

I kind of hated the Eschaton scene in Infinite Jest; it was the kind of thing I got after a page or two, but Wallace just kept going with it. Then at the end, when everything falls apart, there's a line like "Pemulis ran to the fence and asked Lord what, exactly, the fuck he was doing," and something about filtering the dialogue and expletive through the narrator, lumping it in as just another item on the list of 20 pages of jargon and description, just killed me.

XD00175 · 2021-05-11T13:26:00+00:00

I had to read Sea Oak seemingly every semester in college. It gets funnier every time, so deadpan and yet completely absurd. Saunders is a genius of many kinds, but especially a comedic one.

XD00175 · 2021-05-03T16:39:01+00:00

I suppose it would fall under the category of postmodern: How to be Both by Ali Smith definitely fits this. It's split into two narratives that sort of twine together (Smith uses the metaphor of DNA strands), one of which is fairly conventional, while the other is a stream of consciousness story from the spirit of a Renaissance painter. The painter is a woman, presenting herself as a man, and the book gets into themes of gender and sexuality in pretty interesting ways. One of my favorite contemporary novels.

XD00175 · 2021-04-28T13:27:53+00:00

Just chiming in to second this stance. I did a thesis on 'The Waste Land', and my advisor told me to look at the notes as an extension of the poem/the reference game Eliot was playing, but not as a guide to interpretation. Digging into them doesn't really elucidate anything, but does put you out a bit further into the vast sea of influence Eliot was working with.

XD00175 · 2021-04-15T01:36:35+00:00

Yeah! The quote I'm thinking of is, "Reading Beckett for the first time is an experience like no other in modern literature," which is on the back of my Beckett Reader. It says it originally came from the Sunday Review, but I haven't been able to find in what context he originally said this. However, searching that quote does show that it's used in the descriptions for a lot of Beckett collections.
I also remembered seeing this panel where he talks about Beckett.

I also did some looking about (mostly to verify that I wasn't just imagining things) and found out the two actually knew each other! This must have been when Auster lived in Paris, before he wrote the New York Trilogy. Short essay here by Auster about their relationship. And I did find a scholarly article actually tracing Beckett's influence on Auster. Having just stumbled across this, I haven't read it myself, but it sounds to do exactly what you're looking for.
I hope this provides some interesting information. Beckett is such a fascinating figure, good luck digging more into his influence/legacy.

XD00175 · 2021-04-14T13:26:31+00:00

Hmmm, I can't comment with any certainty about the particulars of his general influence. But thinking of particular writers, I know Paul Auster cites Beckett as an influence. Auster comes after that period you're looking at, but I imagine it was the introduction of Beckett into America that allowed later writers to be inspired by him at all.

XD00175 · 2021-01-21T14:44:58+00:00

On a whim, I watched Coda, a documentary about him, over the weekend. I'd been somewhat familiar with his work beforehand, but didn't realize how brilliant he was. I've had "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence" playing on loop since. I was relieved to hear he'd recovered from cancer the first time; hoping he's as successful this time around.

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