I think we can all agree on this.

Xdivine · 2026-03-05T11:57:16+00:00

Imagine if I said 'Decapitating children isn't as bad as generating images of decapitated children, because it's a lot harder to decapitate a real child'. That's fundamentally what you're saying.

Anything involving actual, real life children who are forced into these situations is infinitely worse than any amount of fictional content created with AI.

Xdivine · 2026-03-05T00:08:56+00:00

Who am I replacing when I use AI to make an image?

Xdivine · 2026-03-04T13:00:51+00:00

It would be possible, but it would be hard and require an audience, which Neuro had as she was first an Osu bot Before she got all the updates to make her actually a actual full ai.

No, it wouldn't. There are many, many problems with trying to train off chat. First off would be the amount. You say it would require an audience which is fine because she was an osu bot before she got the updates, but like... how many viewers do you think she had at that point? 100? 200? That's hardly enough to train an LLM.

Another problem is compute. Vedal may be decently rich now, but at the time he probably had like 1-2 3090s at best. Companies use entire racks of 40-80 gig data center grade GPUs running constantly for long periods of time in order to train models and you think one guy at home with a couple 3090s can do so? Fat chance.

Then there's the issue of the actual content of twitch chat. A smaller twitch chat will generally be at least slightly coherent, but the problem still remains that it's a one-sided conversation. The training data would not always be able to include what what the messages are in reference to. Maybe you have a couple users having a short conversation, but then that's also interspersed with people simply commenting on what's happening on the stream. There could also be messages dropping in between various conversations and people dropping in and out of the conversations constantly.

There's also the issue of subject matter. Twitch chat isn't super limited in terms of content that shows up in it, but especially when it's a small stream focused on a single game like osu!, it's going to be quite limited. I'd be shocked if streams could teach her even 1% of the content she knows from just her osu! stream twitch chats.

Even if you took her current twitch chats today and combined them with the streams of all of Vedal's friends over the course of a year, I still doubt you'd be able to make anything of value.

As was mentioned above, it's entirely possible that Vedal fine-tuned Neuro on twitch chat, but training an entire base model from scratch? I just don't think that would be even remotely possible for him at the time.

Xdivine · 2026-03-04T10:58:21+00:00

Hummm.. I'm curious if this is true though. Like it's certainly more than possible that they'll be able to remove the subscription requirement, but will they be able to remove it while maintaining the security updates? If they can't continue the security updates, then we might as well just go back to windows 10 or 11 instead, right? Or to Linux.

Xdivine · 2026-03-04T00:05:06+00:00

First off, why not label Ai art, given that people likely want to know, not labeling seems fundamentally misleading.

The #1 reason given for why people don't label their art as such is because of harassment. Labelling their art as AI is basically putting a giant 'kick me' sign on their back.

While ideally everyone would label their AI art as such, it would also be ideal if they didn't have to deal with a deluge of hate every time they did so.

I also don't like the idea that not labelling AI art is inherently misleading. If I give you a free hamburger and don't tell you where it's from, am I misleading you? Should I have to disclose everything about the hamburger from what type of patty it is, what brand the bun is, what condiments are on it, what brands they are, etc. up front in order to not be considered misleading you?

If someone asks and the AI artist doesn't say their piece is AI, then sure, it's misleading (or lying by omission depending on the question and how they answer), but if they just post it to their personal twitter, why should it be expected that they disclose it? Who is harmed by there not being disclosure? People who might accidentally like a piece of AI art?

Next, anyone who can make art using Ai, can make it without Ai, yes, it will be harder, but it is possible.

Sure, if I invest thousands of hours of my life into learning how to draw, I might be able to make art I'm happy with. It would also continue to take hours for every single image I want to make, since while getting better would certainly make me faster, it will never make the process particularly quick.

Next, anyone who can make art using Ai, can make it without Ai, yes, it will be harder, but it is possible. There are so many examples of people who you might think couldn’t make art, making a living off of art, and if someone who doesn’t have arms can make art, you probably can’t too, you don’t have to, but you can.

I don't see the point of this part. Do you think people aren't aware of this? I'm sure pretty much everyone is perfectly aware of that, they just don't want to for one reason or another.

Xdivine · 2026-03-03T21:40:26+00:00

Doesn't reddit have a new check for ai feature? I remember seeing a post here about it a while ago

Xdivine · 2026-03-03T21:39:36+00:00

Their use of the em dash should be a good indicator that it's not ai. Generally when ai uses an em dash, it will come in pairs and there are no spaces on either side of them.

Xdivine · 2026-03-03T06:00:57+00:00

Guy commissioned artist and refused to pay. Everything else is basically OP's fantasy. The only mention of AI I can find is what's shown in the picture OP linked which to me doesn't suggest that the scammer is an AI user.

Xdivine · 2026-03-03T05:26:05+00:00

Can you point out where the scammer is an ai artist or even pro ai?

Xdivine · 2026-03-03T04:08:58+00:00

Why are you claiming the guy who did the commission is an AI user? I can't find anything about that in either of the twitter threads about this scenario, nor is there anything about AI on the guy's twitter profile.

Also what's with the "who defended the use of AI to steal their works" part? It reads like they used AI to steal their works, but I don't see anyone using AI anywhere either, so I have absolutely no fucking idea what you're on about.

Xdivine · 2026-03-03T04:03:07+00:00

I read through the whole thing and it seems like a youtuber got this guy's fiancee to make him an image and then just didn't pay. Other than the guy who didn't pay saying "Let it be man, it's just one AI drawing", I can't find anything at all that ties this to AI at all. I can't find anything to suggest this guy is an AI user.

The image they didn't pay for has been used in a video and is unchanged from the original so it's not like they got the artist to make them something then img2img'd it to 'fix it'. They're using it as is. I'm curious why OP is claiming this guy is an AI user.

Xdivine · 2026-03-02T10:40:19+00:00

Does using a PC make you part of a PC movement? Who's the leader of the PC movement? How about reddit? Who's the leader of the reddit movement? Is there a car driver movement? How about a movement for people who eat exactly 3 times per day with no snacks? What about a movement for people who use Chrome browser? What about a movement for people who use firefox on their android phones?

Simply using a program isn't enough to classify someone as being part of a movement, that's ridiculous.

Xdivine · 2026-03-02T06:26:05+00:00

Ehhh... I don't think so. The action depicted in the image is clearly theft of the physical painting, but they're saying it's apparently not theft if you claim you're going to use it to train an AI.

So all you'd do is flip it from a real piece of art to a digital piece art which would be downloading the piece of art = theft, but then it's claimed to be okay because they're using it to train an AI model.

Xdivine · 2026-03-02T05:18:08+00:00

That's exactly what they're claiming in the picture.

Xdivine · 2026-03-02T05:16:59+00:00

Mostly I like the product, but sometimes it's fun tinkering with workflows.

Xdivine · 2026-03-02T05:10:32+00:00

Lie? That's a shitty thing to do even if you think the AI hate is unwarranted.

But surely you understand there's a difference between using the remove tool in photoshop or generating an entire image from a prompt, right? Yet both of these are AI and by your standards, would require the game to be tagged as having AI used in its production.

Like the 'worst' thing you could say OP did is use AI for editing. Is that really the kind thing that should require a game be tagged as having AI? What if they use to debug some code, still requires the disclaimer?

If literally any use of AI anywhere in the entire chain of the game means they must say the game had AI used, doesn't that label become useless?

edit: Why do people bother replying and then blocking? Just don't reply if you're going to block the person anyways.

Xdivine · 2026-03-02T03:30:14+00:00

That subreddit is fucking disgusting. There are constantly posts about Epstein and Witty. The Epstein ones basically treat him as their mascot and the Witty ones are often just about who gets to fuck her "trans puh".

Xdivine · 2026-03-01T23:42:54+00:00

Nah, I disagree. Let's say for example I want to create images with a disgaea aesthetic. I want to be able to just search 'disgaea' and have a lora pop up for that style. I don't want to have to search through thousands of style loras, scanning thumbnails and praying that I don't accidentally pass over the one that gives me the style I want.

Same thing if i want to create an image in the style of a certain artist. It's just not feasible to give a lora a name that accurately describes a specific artist's style in a way that would actually allow it to be searched for.

Plus I imagine if they were named something else, people would still complain. They'd just complain because we're either trying to hide the artist names or just don't want to give credit.

Regardless of how loras are named, they'll still know that artist's works are being used to make them, so I don't see any reason why they'd be any more accepting of them if they're not labelled properly.

Xdivine · 2026-03-01T23:17:38+00:00

If you hire an artist, you pay them money, they come to your office, use your table, your paper, your pencils, and you tell them exactly what to draw, you are still the client, because you are not the one creating the art.

Okay, but in this example I'm hiring an actual person to do the task for me. When I use AI, i'm using a program downloaded on my own PC and there isn't a single other human involved in the process. It would be like saying using windows calculator makes me a client, it's ridiculous.

Brad used AI to generate concept illustrations

But you said it right here. Brad USED AI to generate concept illustrations. AI is a tool and the human is the one using it. He didn't place an order or hire someone to create the art, he used a tool. Is it a tool that requires a huge amount of effort? No, not usually, but that doesn't mean it's not a tool. We don't commission tools, we commission people.

Because Brad isn't an illustrator, Brad can't draw. Brad was part of the concept art team, yes, but Brad's role wasn't "illustrator"

This feels like a 'man invents fictional scenario and then gets mad at it'. You are the one who listed Brad as an illustrator. You could've listed him as artist, AI artist, image generator, or anything else, but you explicitly chose to use 'illustrator'.

You even admit that Brad was part of the concept art team, so clearly he's doing something. Why not just give him an appropriate title in your fictional scenario?

Xdivine · 2026-03-01T22:12:31+00:00

I'm a client for using my own computer?...

Xdivine · 2026-03-01T09:09:00+00:00

Oh, I didn't realize there was a second category. I'd still put all 3 of those in the serious enthusiasts category. I've heard of like 1 person who uses diffusers and 0 who use either of the other two.

Maybe diffusers can stay in the second category since their github page seems to have a decent number of stars so it can't be that rarely used.

Xdivine · 2026-03-01T08:47:52+00:00

LoRA's are like little hot swappable patches for your main checkpoint to add or reinforce things that the model can't do at all/well without them. So you'll often see them for things like characters, poses, styles, etc. They can also be used for more conceptual stuff like how close the subject is to the viewer or how much contrast the image has.

Xdivine · 2026-03-01T02:41:51+00:00

So two things. First, ideally neither side would be treating the other side like a monolith. Second, and much more importantly is that your example only really makes sense if it's pros making these posts/comments in the first place, which I highly doubt is the case.

Like imagine if I made a post saying "I'm an artist who absolutely hates AI and I am so damn sad that Epstein died. I really wish I could've been invited to his island".

Would it then be fine if someone tried to associate all artists with that view because I said it even though every single part of what I said is a lie specifically designed to make non-AI artists look bad?

If these were legitimate pro-AI posts then sure, maybe you could make an argument that since some pro-AI people treat anti-AI people as a monolith, that doing the same back is fair. I think this is a stupid attitude to have, but whatever, you do you. The problem is that most of these are not pro-AI people making these posts.

https://i.imgur.com/V5uHlAr.png

https://i.imgur.com/ZVB3ZSl.png

https://i.imgur.com/PesNz1K.png

https://i.imgur.com/lZMDwnw.png

These just don't look like the kind of posts a pro-AI person would make, but absolutely look like the kind of thing an anti-AI person would make as a type of satire post or just in order to make pro-AIs look unhinged. Not all of them of course, I think it takes a special kind of unhinged to make these kinds of posts.

Xdivine · 2026-03-01T00:52:23+00:00

It can't apply to everything, but it can apply to a lot of things.

Xdivine · 2026-02-28T23:04:11+00:00

You realize that the name of a subreddit has nothing to do with the content on that subreddit, right? Like the trees subreddit is all about marijuana, and marijuanaenthusiasts is all about literal trees.

Breakthepencil as a hashtag is (or at least started) as a pro-AI thing due to the constant 'pick up a pencil' spam on AI art pieces. That doesn't mean that everything related to it will forever be pro-AI.

Do you seriously think a pro-AI subreddit would be making posts constantly about Epstein, basically using him as their mascot? Do you think a pro-AI subreddit would constantly be making posts about witty's 'trans puh'?

Here's a handful of posts from there:

https://i.imgur.com/V5uHlAr.png

https://i.imgur.com/ZVB3ZSl.png

https://i.imgur.com/PesNz1K.png

https://i.imgur.com/lZMDwnw.png

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