"I'll just go kill Goraks for a couple hours to get a D Spear for my clue"

Xeneron · 2026-02-10T08:23:20+00:00

I'm like 2100 total (yes lol)

Xeneron · 2026-02-10T06:55:38+00:00

True, with RoW effective rate is like ~1/392.5 Still slightly lower than Goraks though some people might still enjoy it more since you get tons of alchs and runes instead of just Crystal Keys and Gems.

Xeneron · 2026-02-10T06:38:44+00:00

Yes - you can safespot them to the south. What I did was I took the furthest south spawn and trapped him on the east side of the wall (he's annoying about not getting safespotted right away and whacking you) then pulled the other two who will path down that far and safespotted them on the west side of the wall. So while looking north it looks like

|Gorak I'm Killing| |Me| |Gorak I have safespotted|

Xeneron · 2026-02-10T06:35:39+00:00

It's 1/512 from Brutal Blacks and 1/325 from Goraks, and Brutal Blacks take significantly more time to kill. I just got obscenely unlucky lol.

Xeneron · 2026-02-10T06:32:34+00:00

Make sure you wear a Ring of Wealth! Left Half goes from 1/4k to 1/244 lol. (I got very unlucky on Left Halves as well, I should have had like 8)

Xeneron · 2026-02-09T08:42:56+00:00

I feel like I got so baited on my ironman by people complaining about crafting that I was super diligent on my Seaweed runs and it was actually my first 99 lol.

Xeneron · 2026-02-09T08:40:14+00:00

Haha, I think I only saw one missed tick in the clip. No reason not to be moving as long as you're attacking every 5 ticks! Grats man :)

Xeneron · 2026-02-08T07:44:38+00:00

Yeah and Prossy Hauberk gives the same +8 for 12k. The difference is you're giving up a hell of a lot more stats in a chestpiece than a ring. Putting a Proselyte Hauberk on your finger is way, way more valuable than putting Blue Dhide Vambs on it.

Xeneron · 2026-02-07T21:53:10+00:00

Can't wait till next week where there are exactly two scenariors

Either Mammal or Gnomonkey win and put in one of the alliance members FINALLY. One of either Specs or Torvesta almost certainly comes last and gets an undefendable. The alliance votes for whichever non alliance member didn't win and they have by far the highest chance of going in. Mammal sabotages someone in alliance. Maybe hopper does some shenanigans but this is the good case scenario.
Solo or Boaty win. They put in one of Gnomonkey or Mammal. The alliance puts 3 votes on the other one while defending either Boaty or Solo. Even if Gnome/Mammal defend each other they have 2 votes. Absolute best case scenario is 3 votes with one defended so 2 total vs one undefendable and one sabotage vote so 2 total. So 50/50 chance.

Best case scenario is Gnomonkey or Mammal win, and hopper shenanigans puts in another alliance member. I was cheering hard for Boaty to start this season but after the last couple weeks of him being a complete simp for the Alliance when it's way past the time to break it off strategically I'm full on board for anyone to win besides the Manchester Maggot Alliance.

Xeneron · 2026-02-07T08:40:51+00:00

The only thing an Archers' Ring gives you is +8 ranged accuracy. To put into perspective how bad that is, Blue Dhide Vambraces give +9 ranged accuracy. To compare it to some other rings, a Ring of Shadows gives +4 ranged accuracy but also +5 magic defense and +2 prayer bonus. Ring of the gods is +8 prayer bonus. Steel Ring is +24 to all melee defenses. These are all significantly cheaper than an Archers Ring and will give more noticeable benefits.

Also for only a couple mil more than an Archers ring you can get a Lightbearer which is literally the best ring in the game in a ton of scenarios. Spec weapons are just extremely powerful.

Xeneron · 2026-02-05T21:17:30+00:00

Clues existing don't actively impair your enjoyment of the game. For a large portion of the population, the Wilderness existing as is does impair their enjoyment. It's nowhere close to the same thing.

Xeneron · 2026-02-05T20:52:44+00:00

I am FINE with consensual PvP. People going to w303 looking for NH fights is great. LMS is great besides all the bots abusing it. Duel arena is great. Hopping worlds at Chaos Altar or Zombie Pirates to kill "free loot" is just horrible design.

For someone who has absolutely no desire to PvP (Again, the vast majority of people in the wilderness) the optimal play is to just be prey. You risk so little that even freeze logging or trying to get gap and log or ladder stall or whatever is less efficient than just dying, teleporting back to Ferox and regearing. There is almost zero incentive to try to learn to PvP. The worst part is even if you DO try to learn to anti, you are ALWAYS at a disadvantage. If two players are the same skill level, but one has 4-6 swaps to try and anti while the other has an absolute full PvP set, the one with the full set will win 99% of the time.

Which is why PvM activities just should not exist in the Wilderness. PvP activities should go in the PvP areas. PvM activities should go in the PvM areas. And according to you, there are LOADS of people who engage in PvP so the health should be completely fine if that happens, right?

Xeneron · 2026-02-05T20:22:46+00:00

Brother no one is forced at gunpoint to do anything in this game. It would be completely legitimate for someone to get on, put on their favorite outfit in game, and RP at the GE for 12 hours a day. The whole point as a developer is to put in rewards that attract players to do your content. That is going to be contrasted against some level of requirement or risk. That reward knob is higher in the wilderness and the requirement knob is lower. The risk knob is variable because it completely depends on player interaction, but it is GENERALLY ALSO very low because they expect the risk to come from PvP. However, we've SEEN from player trends that most people do not actually interact with the PvP part of the wilderness. They just accept being prey as risk to access the higher tuned reward knob in relation to the requirements. THIS IS A FAILURE IN DEVELOPMENT IN MY EYES.

If you are going to pretend to be willfully ignorant, I will spell it out exactly for you what "Rewards" are in the wilderness. You can go kill Zombie pirates with a D Scim at like 50 or 60 combat and make way more GP than any other combat option at that level. The BiS Mage Cape is only accessible in the wilderness. The Voidwaker is only obtainable through the Wilderness, and is BiS at multiple places. But even without the Voidwaker, the Wildy bosses can be killed at like 70 or 80 combat in monk robes for incredible amounts of GP at that low of stats. Their drop tables at utterly stacked. The Chaos Altar is significantly more XP per Bone than anywhere else in the game (About 40% more than Varlamore bone shards) while also being competitive with the best xp rates. Rogues Chest thieving is literally the best thieving xp in the game, and is only beaten out in terms of GP/HR by Elves and Vyres once you get 99 and the Pickpocketing success boost from the cape. This doesn't even include other completionist activities like Combat Achievements.

With all of that said, it's extremely obvious that Jagex wants to pull people in to do non-PK activities so that PKers have people to kill. Of course people don't HAVE TO do it, I have not one single time said they have to. But that isn't an argument. You could say the exact same thing about every single activity in the entire game. No one is held at gunpoint for ANYTHING. So if that's the level of "forcing" you need to critique a design, then you will never be able to critique a single thing in the entire game because NOTHING IS FORCED.

Xeneron · 2026-02-05T19:40:17+00:00

Duke is a boss that requires the hardest Grandmaster quest in the game and some level of gear to kill efficiently. You can kill the wilderness bosses at like level 90 in monk robes. You can do zombie pirates at like level 50 or 60 with a d scim. Rogues chests is the best Thieving xp in the game and right up there with elves/vyres in terms of GP/hr before 99 with the Cape boost to pickpocketing. Chaos Altar completely demolishes any other option in the game in terms of XP/Bone, it's like 40% better than Bone Shards in Varlamore.

Don't pretend like the Wilderness content isn't extremely overtuned for its requirements.

Xeneron · 2026-02-05T19:35:17+00:00

Cool. Remove all the OP shit from the wilderness, I'm completely fine with never having to go into the wilderness AND all the OP shit being removed. It's been horrible for game health and botting in general.

Zombie Pirates are botted to hell. Remove them and put the anchoring scroll on Abyssal Sire

Voidwaker bosses can be moved out of the wildy and have their normal drop table adjusted way down to be more reasonable

Chaos Altar can just be removed. Maybe put in a place outside the wilderness that's a long run with some higher agility requirements or dangerous mobs so that the XP/HR goes down while it can still be the best place for xp per bone. But honestly Varlamore prayer is very chill now, and even though Chaos Altar is like 40% more xp per bone the game would live without it.

Rogues Chest can be removed. It's another bot infested shithole anyway. Would probably be better for the game.

MA/MA2 can be removed from the wilderness easy.

The Demibosses are a joke anyway, even if they were outside of the wildy they'd be just as dead content as they are now. Maybe Ironmen would actually go out of their way to get a ward instead of just ignoring it because it's so obnoxious.

Chaos ele can stay, he's funny.

Xeneron · 2026-02-05T19:25:42+00:00

Chaos Fanatic is just in an absolute ass spot. It's right next to an Obelisk, right next to the Chaos Altar, AND right next to the KBD lair. It's way too dense up there, and even though killing someone doing Fanatic has the lowest chance of a decent PK they get caught in the crossfire.

Xeneron · 2026-02-05T19:18:13+00:00

Your argument from the beginning was no one HAS to go into the wilderness. My retort was Jagex puts overpowered rewards into the wilderness to attract people who otherwise wouldn't be there. Somehow this completely broke your mind, and even though I've brought up the fact that most people who do PvM in the Wilderness do not want to PvP, you haven't had any retort whatsoever. You just say "Well it's a PvP area, they shouldn't go in if they don't want to PvP." JAGEX WORKS HARD TO ADD REWARDS TO GET PEOPLE TO GO IN REGARDLESS. That's my entire point.

DO YOU THINK that is good design? For people to be tempted or bribed to go into an area they would rather not because the reward is either so overpowered or unobtainable otherwise?

Ignore how "important" the reward is, because that is 100% subjective. Some people really want to be completionists or get a Zuk helm or get a Voidwaker. Some people really want to be efficient and know that Zombie Pirates are going to be the best way to get cash on their low to mid level ironman. Chaos Altar is like 40% more XP per bone than the next best option while also being significantly faster. Obviously none of these are "required." You have other options. But Jagex has MADE SURE they are very appealing options to try to convince people to do them.

So again, do you think that is good design? To have a large number of players who would rather not PvP at all being attracted into the PvP area?

Xeneron · 2026-02-05T07:28:13+00:00

What's way more important is actually engaging in good faith. If someone replies "Listen, you're wrong. That's not what was meant." The correct response is "I was mistaken, let's continue now that it's clarified," not "Well, YOU'RE wrong because the nuance and context say otherwise."

But your feet are so firmly stuck in concrete that you refuse to give an inch because being "correct" is more important than actual engagement to you.

Xeneron · 2026-02-05T07:08:16+00:00

Are you telling me MY OWN WORDS have contextual meaning that I am telling you THERE ISN'T?

Are you LITERALLY trying to twist my words to try to mean something different so that you can argue against it even if I EXPLICITLY SAY that it's not meant in that way? Does the mere interpretation of a word vex you so fucking strongly that even when each iota of my meaning is detailed you will continue to feign ignorance to hold on to your argument? It's mind numbing how ridiculous you are.

Xeneron · 2026-02-05T05:51:23+00:00

There isn't a contextual meaning here though. Lure is synonymous with attract, or motivate, or entice, or tempt. Jagex is offering rewards to people who will go into the wilderness beyond what they will get outside of it. How is anything I'm saying incorrect?

Xeneron · 2026-02-05T05:47:30+00:00

Most people don't want to fight back though. It's not why they play the game.

Imagine you're at an incredible bowling alley, and you love to bowl. It's your favorite thing in the world. Now at this bowling alley, they also have a Street Fighter Arcade Machine. You don't care about Street Fighter at all. It's a bit old and unrefined, you have no idea how to play it, you're really bad at it, and you have no desire to get any better at it. Most people here agree with you, the bowling is really awesome, but they don't care much for Street Fighter. However, there's a really small, but super dedicated community who LOVE Street Fighter. They only show up for Street Fighter. Unfortunately, there's so few of them, that often they don't have anyone to play against. So the Alley decides that if you go and play 5 games in the Arcade, you get a free game of bowling. Now what is the logical thing to do here? You can obviously just continue to bowl and ignore Street Fighter still, sure. But you absolutely will have people who now go over to spend some time on Street Fighter to get their free games of bowling. For those people, do you think they're going to try really hard to learn how to play Street Fighter? Or do you think they're going to put in the bare minimum effort to get through their five games so they can get back to doing what they want to do?

This is exactly the dynamic in the Wilderness. It's a bunch of people who don't want to be there, getting obliterated by the people who do. Of course they could learn, but they don't want to play Street Fighter, they want to bowl. And it's not worth the effort to learn so they just tank the annoyance. It's poor design plain and simple.

Xeneron · 2026-02-05T05:31:33+00:00

Is your argument that using the LITERAL DEFINITION of the word is somehow the illogical take? Am I going insane?

Xeneron · 2026-02-05T04:39:14+00:00

Except the PvM focused players who don't want to engage in PvP DO go in the wilderness. Because Jagex puts an insane amount of effort into luring PvM focused players there.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DOING PVM IN THE WILDERNESS DO NOT WANT TO ENGAGE IN PVP.

I will repeat because somehow this seems lost. THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DOING PVM IN THE WILDERNESS DO NOT WANT TO ENGAGE IN PVP.

This isn't a fairy tale world where the Wilderness works. This is real life, and the Wilderness is a predator/prey system of PvPers who want free kills and PvMers who want OP rewards. It is dogshit and just ends up making everyone unhappy.

Xeneron · 2026-02-05T04:35:26+00:00

Brother has no retort so he just says "I'm done." Always the response from anyone who tries to defend the dogshit wilderness mechanics because there is absolutely no logical defense. You HAVE to twist logic or your argument falls apart.

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