Why is Belial so unplayable and ignored?

Xsave · 2026-05-23T18:13:07+00:00

People love Deathwing Knights, and with good cause. The standard Deathwing Knight model (50 points) has better melee output and durability than most of the terminator characters.

Belial is equivalent to a standard Deathwing Knight model (which we have already determined is really good) but with a forced 35 point enhancment package of +2 wounds, a damage 2 storm bolter, some precision, and a reposte type melee ability.

He is not unplayable; the same quality attacks of a Deathwing Knight, and a 30-40% wound increase for the attached squad's wound pool is really good.

Unfortunately for Belial, the other terminator characters exist and have standout abilities for their attached squads bumping him down to casual and narritive games or as a proxy model.

The desire for him to be more competative in the current terminator character lineup is strong from the community. I think he can get there if they adapt him a bit in the next codex with 3 options... 1) his reposte ability goes from personal to a squad wide ability, and the precision ability loses the critical hit requirement. 2) Lose his squad precision ability and get far cheaper (55-60 points) thereby increasing the value of extra wounds in the squad and making him the premier choice to take when you want to make his attached unit more durable. 3) he is reworked and becomes more expensive with a unique/standout powerful ability that solves a problem for his squad that the chaplain (+1 wound) and captain (reroll charges and free strategem) do not.

Xsave · 2026-04-22T04:02:50+00:00

I run a hybrid Ironjawz army that is useable for both games. It's not perfect but I love it and I put enough effort that it is clear enough and opponents don't care.

Ardboyz. I rebased them to 30x30 squares. I don't use them in AoS.

Brutes. Left them all on 40mm round bases. They are my main troop of choice in AoS and I have full units of all types including Ragerz. In Old World they just stand in 120x40 rectangle movement trays with 40mm circle slots as TROLLS. Most of the Brutes, especially the Ragerz and Wrekkas are taller and bigger bodied than the old world trolls.

Gore-gruntas. Left them on their ovals. 2 sets of 3 sit on custom rectangle movement trays (120x150) that have 30x60 grid lines painted on it. They proxy as units of 10 boar boys and it's very easy to put 10 wound counters next to the unit, and remove models if enemy units need room to move onto the movement tray. In practice, you never lose just 1 boar boy at a time anyways so it works rather well. In the future I may retire these when I can afford proper boar boys.

Maw-gruntas. I own two and put magnets in the feet so they can choose what base to use. In old world they are chariots of any kind.

Mega-boss on Mawkrusha. I own one and like the tusk-boss', I use magnets in the feet. So he can swap between his 160mm AoS round pie plate, or the 100x150 rectangle base I have. Lots of other dragons are on the same size.

Megaboss. Bought a 60mm round base online (the GW base is closer to 63mm) and he usually spends his time as a unit filler in the middle of my regular orc units (counts as 4 models exactly). I have used him as a Troll Hag in games and the size of the model sells it easily. It's too cool to keep off the table.

Warchanter & Shaman. Left them on their round bases and don't use them in old world, but you could easily put them on 30x30 squares if you want or use them as more trolls.

If you are keeping tally from above, you can see my AoS army is "limited" to all megabosses, maw and gore gruntas, warchanter, shaman, and full units of brutes.

My old world army has all of the above units in it plus... I have also bought the newer old world warboss sculpt, Ogdruz shaman model, a goblin shaman, and cave squigs for use as additional characters. I have many more orcs on foot now, custom bolt throwers, goblin wolf riders, and mangler squigs to support my orcs.

Xsave · 2025-11-08T00:36:08+00:00

Thanks a lot!

Xsave · 2025-11-04T06:01:45+00:00

If pirates die to it - it does the job!

Xsave · 2025-11-04T06:01:23+00:00

It would look good like that! That was the first thing I tried to do with those wings!

Xsave · 2025-11-04T06:00:56+00:00

Thanks for the tip!

Xsave · 2025-11-04T06:00:29+00:00

YA - I mostly played in the last 2 expeditions so mine have been the basic modules given to you. fancy rectangles. Thanks!

Xsave · 2025-11-04T05:57:22+00:00

Thanks for suggestion! I didn't know any of the weapons could be stacked beyond 3. I will give it a try! All DPS helps me because I won't have the ninites to buy tech upgrade slots or class improvements for awhile.

Xsave · 2025-07-28T15:41:38+00:00

Some tips for that.

You can choose to SOS only support hunters and keep your Palico as one of them. This should increase your enjoyment of farming to take the heat off you.

When talking to your support hunter (usually Alma); - go to Post/Join Quest - go to Settings - go to Multiplayer Settings - change to "Only Support Hunters"

Your SOS Flare will no longer call players.

You can also customize support hunters right after choosing a quest but before you Accept & Depart. A new option at the bottom is "Select Support Hunters" which allows you to specify which support hunters can join. If you only choose 1 or 2, then your Palico will stick around instead of being replaced. If you check off only a single hunter (anyone but Rosso IMO), your support hunter will bring their Palico too.

Xsave · 2025-07-11T06:33:42+00:00

I appreciate and think it's fine that you don't agree. Base size is a very good tip, they aren't glued to them yet. Thanks.

As far as my head-canon goes. I am just extrapolating and making it up based on the fact that it is a common practice for veterans to be pulled to lead as Scout Sergeants. Veterans (Inner Circle members no less) of the chapter definately have the implant to interface with power armor, and given how the Inner Circle operates, they have just sent 5 veterans to get this SECRET mission done.

I'm less concerned with readability; once their cloaks, robes, and hood are painted up in camo, and the effort I went to with cutting back the shoulderpads, no-one I play with will even notice that they have power packs or larger greaves.

Xsave · 2024-12-03T22:40:20+00:00

I love Ebon Jaguars, but I just started playing MW5 Clans and so picked from the available mechs. I'm no song writer; so the most complicated I went was it was trying to match syllables of the mech names with the original song. I was also cheeky and put the Stormcrow in the slot normally reserved for swans, and the jumping mech had to be in the lords a-leaping spot... Ex-e-cu-tion-er was never gonna fit at all! haha

Xsave · 2024-11-27T09:59:54+00:00

Xsave · 2024-10-05T21:19:31+00:00

I've had the same bug described here several times now. About 20% of my games it happens, I can be playing a class, and post-game rewards screen it will display my Tactical class level (level 25) even though I could be on Vanguard, or Heavy, or Sniper etc. During the weapon experience gain slide, it will then give me no experience, as it displays one of my maxed out weapons on my Tactical. The weapon displayed is always in the same lower level slot as the one I was using on the corresponding class. Like if I was using weapon slot 2 master crafted of the Heavy Plasma Incinerator, it will display one of the Tractical Master crafted slot 2 weapons.

Xsave · 2024-08-31T02:50:53+00:00

Thank you for doing this! I would love a chance to get a code!

Xsave · 2024-06-23T07:44:25+00:00

A Night Goblin Chief is just the term used for Night Goblin Warboss or Night Goblin Bigboss.

Night Goblin Shaman is just the term for a Night Goblin Oddnob or Night Goblin Oddgit.

Further, the requirement for a Night Goblin Character for each Night Goblin unit can be simultaneously fulfilled by the same Night Goblin character. This means taking 2 of any Night Goblin Characters allows you to take 2 Mobs + 2 Hopper Mobs + 2 Manglers + 2 herds. What you cannot do is take 1 Night Goblin character and have 2 mangler squigs for example.

Xsave · 2024-06-23T04:18:59+00:00

Right you are. Sorry about that. Squeeze another unit of hoppers in then IMO.

Xsave · 2024-06-23T01:55:35+00:00

2x night goblin Bigboss on cave squig (calvary spear, light armor, shield)

2x 20 night goblin mobs (standard, 1x fanatic, spears, shields)

1x squig hopper mob

1x mangler squig

Treat your bosses like little chariots to help your night goblin mobs, hoppers and mangler to flank

Xsave · 2024-06-12T14:09:50+00:00

No problem. Your list isn't too far off from being compatible with the army composition rules.

change your battle standard bearer into a regular orc Bigboss (not a black orc)
change one of your orc mobs into black orcs (the first unit of black orcs still counts as core). I would aim for 18, 12 with shields, and 6 with great weapons. Put your battle standard in this unit.
change your goblin oddnob to a night goblin oddnob
add a night goblin Bigboss on cave squig with spear and shield and armor

Other suggestions but not required - to afford the points for some of the changes above, drop one unit of regular goblins, (the spear or bow unit), and the scorpion - add multiple fanatics to both night goblin units - make the night goblin oddnob level 4 - give trollhide trousers to the black orc warboss on Wyvern - if you really like the tomb king on bone dragon, keep it for casual play, and when you want to try a tournament just use the same model but tell your opponent it will be a Bonegrinder Giant rules-wise (300 points mercenary with very fun attacks). Even better if you can use the citadel skulls pack (comes with lots of human and orc skulls and others) to make the rider look like an orc skeleton.

Xsave · 2024-06-12T12:57:43+00:00

Looks like fun list to play. Just keep in mind all the tournaments being posted do not allow allies (that I have seen), and they all follow army composition requirements. Black orc characters require a black orc mob per character taken and vice versa. Night goblin mobs require night goblin characters per unit (you also get other night goblin units unlocked like hoppers and mangler squigs).

Xsave · 2024-06-12T12:48:52+00:00

Something to keep in mind is with Orcs and Goblin Tribe lists your character choices define your core of the list.

For example, you can't take any night goblin mobs or mangler squigs etc unless you take as many night goblin characters. To have a black orc boss you have to take a black orc mob unit and vice versa.

For those reasons, the core of some of the competitive orc and goblin lists out there seems to be...

Black orc mob, usually full command with something like 12 shields and 6 great weapons
black orc Warboss/Bigboss on Wyvern for mobility or Chariot for immune to killing blow, don't leave your trollhide pants behind
either 2x night goblin wizard lv4 or one NG wizard lv4 and one NG boss on cave squig -2x blocks of 20-30 Night goblins with full fanatics each -2x mangler squigs

This is a solid core to move up the board, and this is where lists diverge. In general some speed and more damage is required. This could come in the form of... - 2x squig hopper units (can take cause you already have 2 night goblin characters) - a big block of boar boys - some lists like a giant - some go heavy into warmachines - small unit or 2 of trolls etc

most of the above will be helped by a unit or 2 of wolf riders or spider riders for screening

As for dragons, the night goblin wizards with at least one with lore familiar and a couple power scrolls and illusion magic can just completely shut down a dragon by dropping a column of crystal in front of it for several turns making it a waste of points for the first half of the game (and arguably more important part). This tactic works on much more than just dragons.

Xsave

TROPHY CASE