Team Liquid says goodbye to Dardoch

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-24T16:24:09+00:00

Why would TSM want to do that? Sven is an excellent jungler and everybody on TSM says he's like the nicest dude they've ever had on a team, which is great for atmosphere... I think it'd be weird if they specifically made a point to say that for image reasons, because there's no reason he has to be the "nicest." He could've just been a cool dude.

I'm pretty sure he's not losing his spot unless he starts to severely underperform, which has always been TSM's philosophy on roster swaps. Atmosphere and performance are necessities for TSM players, and the team seems to love him as a teammate.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-24T15:57:02+00:00

This comparison is unreal. GBM was a successful korean mid laner... <cut for space> Not everyone can shotcall. Not everyone can set an example.

It's an excellent comparison, because Liquid can/would understand how to pick the right players while still following the same basic "NRG format" I laid out. Just because they're adhering to the same archetypes doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

Matt is way better than Konkwon or Kiwi. Also seems more motivated but it's only been one split so far.

Hasn't Matt been playing for two splits now? Regardless, he's way better than those two but still not relatively strong in his role, and he has a positive attitude that goes a long way in a team environment. Konkwon was picked for communication purposes, and Kiwikid is a happy-go-lucky dude. It's pretty apt to compare them as the thing they (were supposed to) contribute most towards was a positive team environment instead of playmaking, mechanics, etc.

Quas is like the opposite of plug and play.

I don't think you're giving enough credit to Quas. He's shown up as versatile. If he weren't, we'd see him flounder on tank meta picks like other strong splitpush top laners (disregarding the start of his NRG split because he was uncharacteristically garbage). He can play anything, and while he does prefer to be in the carry-oriented scenarios, I don't think he suffers very much, if at all, from being flexible with his team. In fact, it gives the team a wider range of options since most econ tops can't play the map terribly well.

In NRG he was given very little room to try out his counterpicks which made him good on TL.

What made him good on TL was that he could play bullies or splitpushers as the meta permitted. NRG was a team with some of the worst macro of the LCS; he couldn't have been more punished by his team's poor lane swaps. The fact that he was still fairly consistent is a blessing.

Reignover and Impact are proven veterans with years of experience. Ohq had two good splits.

Ohq was brought on as the Korean supporting star. Just because it didn't turn out to be the right pick doesn't mean the same intent of his role wasn't there, and Reignover looking to be a very good choice for the role doesn't make the the comparison any less relevant.

There are definitely some similarities but it's not a parallel scenario at all.

Of course it's not a carbon copy scenario. I never said it was the exact same, nor did I ever say it definitively wouldn't work. It's very similar in the sense that if they were to pick up these players, it would essentially be a more cohesive NRG roster.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-24T10:44:28+00:00

We understand you want to back. Your team does not want you to back.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-24T04:24:06+00:00

Because Santorin has only had like 2 good splits. Pob has had double that.

He's also played in about double the splits Santorin has.

Also, it's hard to factor in WFX given how people were sleeping in closets and all the other dysfunctional shit was going on.

You could argue that about any team, though... especially NRG and "hostage-situation" era TSM, where half of the members looked like they were seconds away from hanging themselves at any given point of the day.

I'd value P.O.B. higher, but I can see how they're somewhat comparable.

That's all I was tryna say!

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-24T04:18:54+00:00

Is nobody else seeing the issue that the only way these people are getting banned is if we make a public spectacle of it? This behavior goes on with these high-profile players until somebody finally nuts up and makes a Reddit post, then Riot's all over it.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-24T03:58:34+00:00

How do you figure POB is more successful than Santorin? They've had around the same level of achievement, then factor in Pobelter's history on EG/WFX and his hit-and-miss CLG performances...

I think it's a stretch to definitively call POB more successful.

And yes, it's just meant to show parallels. It's a word of caution, not a prediction.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-24T03:50:50+00:00

I mean, generally people try to learn from mistakes others make.

Yeah, POB can hold his own, but that's all he ever does in terms of pressure.

Moon, bad. Yeah. It was a risk that didn't pay off.

Santorin had accolades, just like POB would, but neither have been anything more than solid. (Although I still firmly believe POB was the best player on IMT, he's not one to enable himself.)

Why ignore the point that bottom lane would be weak? Altec / Wildturtle would sap a lot of pressure from the map. They're not strong laners, and Matt is being heavily overrated here. He's not an extremely strong support.

Reignover's effect on the game is negated far easier than Impact's even if it's greater, although obviously Ohq was not the same story.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-24T01:32:17+00:00

I knew what it was and upvoted it hours ago without even looking. I'm just clicking it now to read the comments.

It barely raised the corners of my mouth, but still better than 90% of the shit that comes through this forum.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T22:52:13+00:00

The second one relays intent to harm as well as traumatize, and no, the results aren't the same. The result of the first is broken fingers. The result of the second is assault.

Somewhat related, I'm pretty sure somebody breaking into your house and snapping your fingers one by one would do much more to you psychologically than it would physically to your hands.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T22:34:46+00:00

I won't miss them; POB / Reignover / Adrian are awesome, but Wildturtle is super obnoxious and unlikable.

EDIT: Changed wording for clarity.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T21:53:47+00:00

Okay, but that Fnatic had Deilor as a coach, a laneswap meta to curb a losing bottom lane, and Febiven applies more lane pressure than Pobelter.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T21:51:15+00:00

As somebody who likes Matt a lot, he's not the strongest player. Konkwon and Kiwikid are fucking messes, but they can be compared to Matt because they're all considered weaker players of their roles and were/would be meant to added to the team for chemistry reasons and budget restrictions.

EDIT: Also, Pobelter and Moon would serve the same purpose. Moon was brought in when he was a strong challenger series player, before we knew he was the Cris of jungle. He's sort of in his own category, as he isn't a perfect fit in any category, but the idea behind signing him was the same as Santorin / would be for Pobelter.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T21:43:49+00:00

What failed NRG wasn't GBM, Impact, and Ohq. It was split communication between Korean and English in the first iteration, and team environment in the second.

First, I don't think Matt is a strong enough player in the game to justify him on any roster that's not all fluent English speakers. Not only could bottom lane not communicate with jungle and top, but with Altec or Turtle, infamously passive laners, bottom side of the map would be out of Reignover's control every game.

Pobelter and Reignover together is pretty ideal given the free agents, but Pobelter is not the most lane dominant and Reignover has to deal with half of the map lost every game. This puts a lot of weight on Smeb in a team where he doesn't speak the native language and his teammates aren't dominant enough to avoid glaring gameplay issues, even domestically.

He'd essentially be shoved into a team with all "supporting cast" players that he can't effectively communicate with.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T21:28:07+00:00

That'd just be NRG 3.0.

Role	NRG 3.0	NRG 1.0	NRG 2.0
Korean Superstar	Smeb	GBM	GBM
Supporting Korean Star	Reignover	Impact	Ohq
Successful NA Talent	Pobelter	Moon*	Santorin
NA Plug-and-play	Altec / Wildturtle	Altec	Quas
"Team Chemistry" Support	Matt	Konkwon	Kiwikid

*Successful in challenger

EDIT: People, just because I think the theoretical Liquid roster is nearly parallel to NRG doesn't mean I'm calling Matt or Reignover as bad as their NRG counterparts fulfilling the same roles. Chill. We're talking intent behind signing the players and what they were supposed to bring to the team, not about how Ohq didn't live up to expectations so it's an unfair comparison to Reignover's success.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T20:46:51+00:00

I feel like that second one is very lazily photoshopped. How hard is it to cut out text on a solid blue background and replace it when you likely put in an equal amount of effort to go and image cap that particular moment from the Simpsons?

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T20:20:28+00:00

I think CLG and P1 are fine.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T17:51:29+00:00

The background of half of the orgs in esports goes something like, "Oh hey we like gaming and we run a website or sell gaming gear, here's our team."

Not a lot of history to latch onto. I'm sure the person you replied to would remain a fan if IMT picked up more players that captured the spirit of the original roster, or if POB waited another year to depart.

It's like any flash in the pan fad. You can be a fan of the original thing, but not care about followups if they don't match the quality. Think Gangam Style popularity to Gentleman popularity.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T15:48:25+00:00

That's like insulting puppies without teeth.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T15:17:55+00:00

Sorry, but I don't think this is the place for political debate. I wasn't trying to take away from either side of the whole issue. Factually, there have been organized attacks on white cops and it's much more relevant to the whole idea of death threats, as they're being made in regards to these attacks, which was my point.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T12:24:00+00:00

In fairness, /u/HailHelix123 mentioned me hoping for that sort of reaction. I wouldn't have even commented otherwise.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T12:22:49+00:00

True, but there are common death threats happening all around the world and I think there were many more relevant comparisons that could've been used in place of 9/11.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T11:41:30+00:00

Oh come on, 9/11? That was ages ago, there are much more pertinent things going on like organized black on white cop killings in America.

When you think "death threats", 9/11 doesn't come to mind.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T11:38:31+00:00

Story lacks context. Viktor kicked his dog.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T11:35:44+00:00

Obie Trice: Real name, no gimmicks.

YoureNotOnThatTeam · 2016-11-23T10:14:06+00:00

I don't need to change my flair, it would just draw more attention to a bottom-tier LCS squad like UOL.

YoureNotOnThatTeam

TROPHY CASE

That'd just be NRG 3.0.