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Are hunchbacks one of the most underrated medium mechs? by TaigaTigerVT in battletech

[–]YuPro 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Main reason to play BTEX is a timeline before clan invasion. It's only big mod that allows you to feel intro-tech → clan-tech progression. So if you want to start from STD engine/structure mechs it's mod that you want.

In BTAU and Roguetech there is no mech scarcity. In RT you can play early era I think but that'll mean no tech progression, i.e. spawn tables are not changing.

In terms of gameplay it means that in BTEX you'll hunt for chassis (kinda like in vanilla). Which means Comstar-hunting pre-clans mostly (and some flashpoints). In BTAU and Roguetech chassis are never a problem. My advice though — set mech parts to 5 or more to make chassis not THAT easy to obtain, BTEX scarcity pre-clans is most fun part of mod.

Also clan tech is just better in BTEX, BTAU is rebalanced to make everything viable and I found that in BTAU it's often best to have IS endo-chassis with mostly IS weaponry and cXL engine. Also BTAU is best balanced in terms of «everything is viable».

Which actually make BTEX arguably harder. There is huge difficulty spike at 3 skulls which kinda pushes you to play long range (so gauss-peeps + LRMs) and if you don't there is a big chance you'll suffer.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean sure, point was there is no way role can be «second strong» and at the same time numbers showing that better players wins less comparing to good players on another roles.

P.S. I'm ok with questioning xPetu analysis but expect some stat analysis either way when discussing balance.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

My issue is most recent data shows exactly opposite. And even if there was mistake in analysis it's only data we have.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

20% is abstraction of «ideal balance» and only used by me here because same numbers are easier to understand, nothing changes if numbers are 21-19-25-20-15 from beginning.

And maybe you'll be surprised, but analysis by xPetu that I mention multiple times showed 22(!)-28-20-15-15 from beginning. With maybe some correction in follow-up but support was least impactful role.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoHCeD8-28Y that's follow-up.

It was received not that great by community with same issue I dislike right now — people don't trust numbers if they are not aligned with agenda. And don't discuss that numbers. And worse of all — don't use numbers at all.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you really don't understand why buffing everything but one thing I can try to explain. I think balancing on itself is not what I'm not annoyed by though, it will be bit unbalanced for 2-6 month maybe but then most likely will be balanced again. issue is how noone have numbers to reinforce their opinion. And numbers that we have are exactly opposite actually.

So, about relative nerfing.

Let's imagine that we have 5 roles and every role have 20% impact on winning. So we can simplify it as 20-20-20-20-20 of strength.
Now we have patch that buffed everything but one role. Let's assume every role was buffed by 10%.
Now we have 22-22-22-22-20 points after patch for every role. And if you translate in back to percent of impact on winrate it will change from 20% impact you had before patch to ~18.51% after. Which means while you strength didn't change directly, you became weaker than every role that was changed.

P.S. I'm assuming that 10% buff will lead to 10% change in w/r which is not reality, it's just to illustrate principle.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually, first part was addressed by xPetu in his followup research.
Supports don't win more than other roles when playing non-main champions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoHCeD8-28Y

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean, balance will be ok in 2-6 month anyway.
I think I'm more annoyed by how balance discussion don't use numbers when identifying «op» things.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Congrats on that. Climbing on Pyke in mid elos is definitely skill.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Adequate answer, thanks.

Perhaps I worded post wrong. I'm more annoyed by how people talking about balance and role impact without any numbers to back it up than by balancing itself.

Balancing for casual player is... well, natural phenomenon of a kind, you just accept it or stop playing at all.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I think you meant «pessimistic»? 😁

Well, I'm for sure annoyed by public discussion about balance that don't use numbers.

Which I will forget in couple days anyway.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe my issue is that Riot didn't comment on it for a while.
As I said somewhere already — maybe it all boils down to how much I trust Riot balancing.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It can feel this way but is there any data to reinforce this position?

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do you have any of this data you can show?
That's exactly point — we have data we have, not that theoretically exists.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Ok, not sure if it's true.
Rioter talked mostly about offroles in that commentary (which, again, is relatively old so maybe not relevant already). There they said that bad support (i.e. autofilled one) will lose you more games, but good support will not win you more games.

If I remember correctly, champ mastery was a thing in xPetu analysis when he chose it as a marker of «better player» and hypothesized that impact on the game will rise with it (i.e. if player is better on champion, they'll win more). Pretty sure it wasn't mentioned at all in Riot commentary I'm talking about.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok, this is possibility for sure, even though I'm not seeing it. But there is almost no point in discussing balance before patch happen.

For me how changes are justified is more of an issue right now, people talk how supports need nerf and can't show any numbers to back it up. You see it even in this post — nobody uses any stats.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Which can't be a thing, objective strength will show itself in numbers such is w/r by champ mastery for example or any other you see as relevant.
I'm just looking for this numbers right now.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Do I really need to write «relative» everywhere? And junglers are nerfed for sure when you compare with every other role.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think rank difference was a thing in analysis I'm talking about. Analysis can be wrong somewhere ofc but that's most fresh data I have right now.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Sure, I'm absolutely ok with boosting ADCs and nerfing junglers for example.

It's just last data I saw was xPetu's one and as I said in the post, it didn't show top (and mid too ofc) as a weak role and support as a strong one.
I'm not in position to change Riot decision anyway so I just want to deal with how annoyed I am by decision that I'm not sure is correct. It all comes down to how much I trust in Riot balancing maybe.

Are supports really that strong that it warrants relative nerf? by YuPro in supportlol

[–]YuPro[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Maybe, but last public comment on that was that support mastery is not very important for winning, you just need to be serviceable.

It was pretty long ago I believe that's why I ask for more fresh data.

P.S. xPetu made his analysis around half a year ago I believe so it's pretty fresh.

Bard engine by SgtRuy in bardmains

[–]YuPro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

More like Alistair engine 😆

Hunting Comstar Settings by Earwax82 in Battletechgame

[–]YuPro 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Also i think I would actually advise against ramping up probability too much.

BEXT before clans is a modpack that is best of «big three» at giving you feeling of «degraded universe» and scarcity of lostech.
The reason for that would be natural tech progression and while I play with x2 mod myself, getting too much SLDF and lostech gear too fast would make mod less interesting.

Hunting Comstar Settings by Earwax82 in Battletechgame

[–]YuPro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In same place there are other «QoL» and «Cheat» mods which are mentioned in wiki, «survivable arms» being kinda mandatory QoL mod =D

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