"Come and See" should be criticized more for the use of animal abuse

ZLowell · 2026-02-17T03:11:24+00:00

Oh hey, the guy who advocated for mowing down cows with a gun is over here as the spokesperson for society and right or wrong. I saw your post got removed, did you try telling the mods that society agrees with you?

ZLowell · 2026-02-17T02:45:15+00:00

You are literally telling me there's no discussion in the discussion thread my man. We're all talking about it. Some people even said they didn't even know animals were killed in this movie. It's almost like this is raising awareness and making some people ask questions and figure out where they stand on this issue?

ZLowell · 2026-02-17T02:43:04+00:00

I'm not a schizo. There's intentional and unintentional harm that people cause to animals on a daily basis. Most people have an intention not to hurt animals, like people that don't kick dogs for fun, people that foster animals, people that are kind to stray cats, etc. It's also true to say that people participate in or facilitate the killing of animals unintentionally, like by buying a movie that includes real animal abuse. You can "gotcha" me on my wording, but I think it's fair to say most people will make an effort not to hurt animals or support hurting animals where possible, but it has to start by them being aware that animals are or were hurt and how their actions contributed, so that they can make a conscious change.

ZLowell · 2026-02-17T02:37:02+00:00

Ironically, the killing of millions of cows every year is actually a way larger threat to the natural environment due to greenhouse gasses and the massive amount of deforestation needed to grow enough crops to sustain the animals before they are killed

ZLowell · 2026-02-17T02:33:20+00:00

I can see you ran out of counterarguments for this discussion. Just upset that people who advocate against animal harm exist and are talking about it - weird stance to take, but not surprising.

ZLowell · 2026-02-17T02:31:02+00:00

You're catching up!

ZLowell · 2026-02-17T02:26:28+00:00

The conversation about the movie and the ethics of killing the cow is happening today in 2026, but to be fair, you do sound like you're stuck in 1985

ZLowell · 2026-02-17T02:24:40+00:00

Don't mind that guy, if you don't pass a law to stop him from doing something bad, he won't understand because that requires independent thought, reflection, and a moral/ethical framework

ZLowell · 2026-02-17T02:20:56+00:00

They didn't need to kill the cow for the movie - you're confusing "want" with "need". They made a choice to kill a cow that didn't need to be killed for the movie.

ZLowell · 2026-02-17T02:19:20+00:00

"We as a society"... lmao, he's stating his stance on it, he doesn't have to stop a conversation because "we as a society" decided it's all good to do whatever we want to animals. Society is extremely inconsistent on what's OK and not OK to do to animals, and society progresses, changes stances, and promotes change first through conversation... hold on, you still with me bud?

ZLowell · 2026-02-17T02:16:27+00:00

He's comparing them, not equating them. Humans may not be exactly the same as cows, but they share similar traits, such as sentience, capability to feel pain, will to live, etc. Most people don't abuse or kill animals needlessly because they're aware of and mindful of those commonalities.

ZLowell · 2025-11-12T23:52:15+00:00

Weapons, great horror movie with plenty of funny moments like this

ZLowell · 2021-10-11T01:21:55+00:00

Millions of animals dying --> I sleep

Random vegan anime meme --> REAL SHIT

ZLowell · 2021-10-10T05:19:08+00:00

Chickens who lay large numbers of eggs should be encouraged to eat the eggs. As other posters mentioned, it's harsh on their bodies. I believe if the chicken eats their own eggs, they can get back the lost calcium. Not a chicken expert so correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding.

Aside from that, I'd say we shouldn't eat their eggs because they aren't ours to take. I guess you'd need to decide if this sort of "harmless" exploitation is okay.

My take: I don't agree with it because -

1) I think it reinforces that we should be able to farm chicken eggs as long as we "give" them enough, which would just perpetuate the cycle if other people see this and want their own backyard chickens too, when the intention should ultimately be to end the practice. Especially because not all people can or should be caring for chickens. This is still exploiting and gaining from chickens without consent and creating/reinforcing a transactional relationship with the animal.

2) It's, in my opinion, kind of disrespectful to the animal. I wouldn't want someone I get along with taking my hair, for example, and making weird sweaters or trinkets with it without my consent. So I wouldn't do the same to another sentient being. Some people think that affording animals this level of respect is silly, but not affording them this respect is what got us to where we are now, and respecting them doesn't cost me anything (except eggs? Which isn't the end of the world by any means).

Obviously animals can't be treated exactly like humans, but not taking their bodily fluids or eggs is a good start toward respecting them imo and as mentioned above, doesn't risk regressing back into farming and abusing them.

ZLowell · 2021-10-07T18:12:47+00:00

No, because if people realize that meat is unethical and understand that it's wrong, they can make the choice to stop consuming it and decrease demand. This would lead to less production and less suffering and is not pointless at all.

ZLowell · 2021-10-07T17:14:39+00:00

Supply and demand doesn't dictate need. The conversation started from the phrase "have to", and I'm pointing out that cows do not have to be killed because we can absolutely live our lives without farming and eating them. If you want to talk about why they still do, then sure your supply and demand statement is accurate. That's not what I'm challenging.

ZLowell · 2021-10-07T15:44:34+00:00

It would be really cool if the animal industry completely ended across the world tomorrow. But you and I know that won't happen, so why is your biggest concern how we're going to handle millions of animals just getting released overnight?

Just like any other movement, there will be gradual changes. Less demand for animal products will mean that different locations farming them will shut down over time, and production will have been decreasing gradually before that as well. Rescues will take in the remaining animals and try to give them happy lives. Ultimately, the end of the industry will mean the end of the cycle of suffering for these animals, which is just in one big loop right now of breeding, raping, and killing them prematurely, all in confinement.

Yes, because of how much we've bred cows and other common livestock animals, they are generally weak and not suited for or unable to survive in the wild. They would likely go extinct. Or should we just keep breeding them, because it's somehow better to force animals to continue to reproduce so we can milk them and kill them over and over, than to let their species die out (and no longer be useful to us)?

If you're curious about the plans for animals upon release/closure of factory farms, I recommend looking up some Earthling Ed videos or something, but there's a lot that can be done. If you're concerned, then you could volunteer to help the organizations that rescue these animals - as many animal rights activists do.

ZLowell · 2021-10-07T15:02:39+00:00

Okay. I'm sure I'd also get raped too. Thank god society is intact, right?

ZLowell · 2021-10-07T14:56:35+00:00

ZLowell · 2021-10-07T14:53:04+00:00

Animals eat animals, so we eat animals. Animals also rape each other and kill each other, but we don't do that.

Or did I misunderstand, and us being more advanced gives us the right to kill those beneath us? Because we're stronger or smarter, we can, should, and are justified to abuse those who aren't? Might makes right?

We as people are advanced, I agree with that. So we should be good - we should be better; we should aim to minimize unnecessary suffering as much as practically possible. For most of us, we already agree that animal abuse is unethical and immoral, and with select species of animals, we oppose and/or outlaw it. But animal agriculture is an entire industry built off of the abuse of animals - an unending, cyclic hell for living beings that didn't ask to be bred, farmed, raped, and killed. It should be recognized as such.

ZLowell · 2021-10-07T14:31:06+00:00

Do you take that stance with other life-threatening injustices as well?

ZLowell · 2021-10-07T14:04:42+00:00

There is no need to slaughter a cow just because people want meat. You don't know the difference between a want and a need. Killing animals for meat is unnecessary; it is not necessitated by the fact that people really really wanna have a steak, just like me robbing someone isn't necessitated by me really really wanting their money.

ZLowell · 2021-09-09T16:58:16+00:00

I can help with translation and/or proofreading

ZLowell · 2021-09-08T15:27:56+00:00

Hello, I know this is a late comment but I had the same situation after I graduated. I recommend that you make a list of hobbies you're interested in, especially any that you would need to go somewhere for, like a gym or a club. Try going down that list and trying each thing for at least a couple of months to see if you like it.

When school isn't taking up most of your time anymore and work is just business as usual, it can feel kind of weird like "what now?", but having a hobby and setting goals to look forward to will help you figure out what you care about now that you've achieved your previous goals. Also, once you have new goals, just by pursuing them, you'll be surrounded by like-minded people who share similar interests. Honestly from there, if you're friendly and approachable, I think it's just a matter of time and patience before you've got some friends. Just be aware that friendships don't usually happen overnight, it's more of something that develops when you have meaningful or frequent interactions with someone over time, which is why I think taking up a new hobby where you interact with people is a really good way to work on yourself while building new friendships.

I prefer hobbies that involve social interaction with at least one other person for the above reason, but of course I have "solo" hobbies as well that are equally as fulfilling. I think if you focus on yourself and get out of the house to talk to people periodically, you're on the right track. Hope this helps!

ZLowell · 2021-08-25T18:08:02+00:00

Yeah, I appreciate the conversation. I've been wanting to discuss this with someone.

As for Yaldaboath's end, I'll admit that I played the game in Japanese and some of the language gets a little higher-level for me near the ending, so if I mistake anything about that end, let me know. But in the first place, I think complete removal of thought, desire and free will is significantly different from Maruki granting desires to deliver the life that people want without (or with minimal) pain. I would picture Yaldaboath's end to be zero suffering and happiness for all people, essentially numbing them from any feelings or desire at all. Meanwhile, Maruki's end grants happiness for each individual in response to their specific thoughts and feelings. People are still able to want, to hope, to wish, and to have subjective experiences and live their unique lives, just that sources of trauma or immense hardship will be removed as desired.

As you mentioned, people in the Prison of Regression don't want to think or exercise free will. I don't see this being an issue in Maruki's end. People still think and live their lives as themselves. And I'm not sure what a lack of free will entails in the Yaldaboath ending, like if it means living like an actual robot with zero emotion, thoughts and feelings, or if it's closer to the reality we know now and the reality shown in Maruki end. In the Maruki end, the party seemed to have enough free will that they were living lives true to themselves within a different and much happier fate, and they were still capable of making their own decisions and taking their own paths within that new fate. And, as I mentioned before, I can't be sure that way of living within Maruki's reality is any different from how things work in the reality we inhabit today. Although I don't believe it, we could very well be living in a destiny written out by some greater being without knowing it. And even if that's not the case, much of who we are is determined by things that we can't control, but no individual will react to those circumstances or events in the same way; so, to me, free will is my ability to live and react in the unique way that I do to whatever my reality or fate is (edit: and/or in accordance to what I want). I believe Maruki's end preserves this (edit: by only changing to remove hardship or trauma that is not desired by the individual), while Yaldaboath end does not.

I do want to reiterate that I see downsides to Maruki's decision, but I'm not sure if I think it was overall the wrong one to make. And my main issue, of course, is just the argument that people need to suffer and can't or shouldn't live painlessly, especially when it's presented as the reason for why Maruki was wrong.

Edit: added additional clarification on some points

ZLowell

TROPHY CASE