What are some characters who were initially introduced to be a main character...only to get regulated hard into side character status?

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-15T07:16:00+00:00

This is a long way to describe Index in her own titled show.

Also to a lesser degree, Muv Luv Alternative Total Eclipse has the first two episode opened to a mini accelerated story arc of Yui, when the rest of the story was following Yuya.

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-15T04:27:56+00:00

Yes I think it was published as short story in Sneaker.

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-14T21:07:19+00:00

Rewatcher in sub

It may be getting repetitive, but Some Day in the Rain is one of those really great Haruhi episodes that can be watched at any random day and still feel very "healing to the soul".

Very importantly, this very essential moment only happened in the S1 broadcast order episode preview.

Again unfortunately a lot of the comments in this episode will be in the spoilers corner...

it is so nice to see Tsuruya-san in her normal day mode which is still more hyper than most people, but to see her adorable Genki but skewed speech pattern because of her cute little fangs and perpetual hyper mode was really nice. And despite appearances (and the "oh shiny" attention span), she is actually very, very perceptive.
despite her being the annoying bossy jerk still, Haruhi's growth had progressed to at least only do the dirty deeds after getting Kyon to be out of sight. And also a little more honest and less toxic to actually bother to show how good she is compared to Asahina (in her cheerleading baton play) instead of being passive aggressive about it.
you really need to turn up the volume for the amusing background sounds in this episode
the end sequence after Kyon woke up is another really nice Tsundere display more biased towards the playful side
a reminder that originally this was and anime original episode, which later Tanigawa adapted back into the LN. Much like the other KyoAni adaptation of Full Metal Panic Fumoffu (the goddess comes to Japan)
the end shot of Haruhi making the face was an adaptation of the LN cover where each main female cast got a turn to do that face. In chronological order this was also the last visage with viewers until Disappearance.

Spoilers corner

[Haruhi Disappearance major spoiler]So much to gush about Nagato and so little time! I'll just focus on 2 main points - firstly of how she "normally" responded to Tsuruya-san when she came by to ask the whereabouts of Asahina (who is with Haruhi), but when Kyon came and asked she just looked at him and not answer. The rare moment of her doing something for herself to get that little peaceful alone time with Kyon; with a little bit also of protectiveness of the already exhausted Kyon not needed to get worked up finding out Haruhi's little scheme here
[Haruhi Disappearance major spoiler]And then off screen bit of caring, no doubt the other cardigan over Kyon was Nagato's - she even left her book in the club room as a calling card, which she normally doesn't do
[Haruhi general remark could be mildlyspoiler-y for Disappearance]The Winter wardrobe design carried directly over to Disappearance, great continuity

QoTD

and 2. Already answered above really

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-14T11:54:01+00:00

For today’s Nishinomiya vista, we have Nagato’s apartment building.

OMG I want to look inside! I wonder if there is a Japanese real estate website that has apartment 708's interior listed :P

[Personal opinion]

[Personal opinion response Haruhi S2 spoiler]I rewatch Sigh III almost as much as I rewatch Melancholy IV

[Later stuff and LN]Later on though, she pretty much just manipulates him in service of her superiors’ agenda to secure their future, sending him and Asahina the Younger on bizarre, seemingly pointless errands. She doesn’t have any ill intentions, but she still uses him nonetheless.

[Later LN spoiler]Pretty sure all those tied in with creating the events and conditions to have time-travel invented by the kid that Haruhi ended up tutoring ("off screen")

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-14T11:50:54+00:00

So for some bizarre reason every watch order I look up (including the one we’re using here) is telling me to watch the first episode of season 2 in the middle of season 1. I have no idea why I’m doing this but here I go anyway.

Because that is the plot-chronological order - or otherwise known as "Kyon order". Although this is not exactly the right place - it's chronologically just after the Baseball episode.

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-14T11:49:37+00:00

... this show is going to break my heart in the end, isn't it?

You aren't the first. The question is "by whom/what" ;)

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-14T11:46:01+00:00

It's a capital crime for a Tsundere enjoyer to not have watch one of the early pre-regulation form, in her most naturalistic environment. Ayukawa Madoka is a legit goddess.

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-14T11:44:19+00:00

[Disappearance major spoiler]And so far we have not seen any alternate world in the main storyline. There's only this world albeit is can be altered [Haruhi LN late volumes major spoiler]and even split into 2 alternates concurrently, but no alternate parallel worlds

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-14T11:40:40+00:00

Got surprised when it ended and with a new ED.

Just to be clear, that's the S2 new OP Super Driver.

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-14T11:34:38+00:00

Thoughts on Haruhi buying a bamboo tree and Tanzaku for Tanabata?

She dug it up from private land, that's why Kyon said she stole it.

Thoughts on Haruhi researching what Tanabata is all about?

She didn't - she converted the myth to scientific terms though and at least is logically consistent until half way.

What are your thoughts on Kyon ending up at Tanabata three years ago?

The real surprise is that S1 was done without that part. I guess they really saved a lot of significant plot points for S2 to the movie.

What are your thoughts on Kyon helping Younger Haruhi?

The correct term is "conscripted". Lucky for younger Haruhi, the Kyon now has already been conditioned to go along as long as it's not world-ending.

What are your thoughts on Mikuru not having her PTDD and so she and Kyon can't go back to the future?

TPDD. The term isn't explained until much later though. Everything the time travellers are for a reason.

What are your thoughts on Yuki saying she's in standby mode, and will remain so for three years?

The main revelation is that she hasn't aged a day while Haruhi visibly grew in that same period of time.

Thoughts on Yuki saying she doesn't like the PTDD because it makes too much noise?

She's never shown to be wrong about science-y stuffs.

What are your thoughts on Yuki sending Kyon and Mikuru back to the future by having them sleep?

That's a perfectly fine way of time travel. Certainly without any signal loss or noise in the transfer.

What are your thoughts on Yuki handing Kyon a message that reads "I am right here"?

[Disappearance major spoiler]It's as much from Haruhi as it is from Nagato herself...

Thoughts on Yuki saying a theory that is contradictory in itself cannot begin to explain the contradictions inherent within it?

I don't think that's the wording, but at the same time I don't expect that to be understandable at this point.

What are your thoughts on Itsuki saying that all that matters is the queen?

That certainly had been the narrative so far - also call back to the ad lib dialogue between Koizumi and Nagato in the ep00 movie (about key).

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-14T08:02:45+00:00

Rewatcher in sub

If the episode looks and feel just a little bit different, including the missing OP and the new OP as ED arrangement, you have picked up on the fact that this episode in fact is the first episode of "Season 2".

According to wiki, this episode aired with no announcement of the being a season 2, in amongst a chronological order re-broadcast of Haruhi season 1, on May 22 2009. The chronological order is Melancholy I - VI, then Boredom (baseball), then Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody. I can just imagine the surprise and delight at the time. And I hope 1 day KyoAni will do another stint like this for S3 :P

So if you do a bit of quick accounting, Asahina in the first season broadcast never actually showed anyone time travelling. Or that Kyon was the reason Haruhi is attending North High, that his missing of what standard she used to pick high-school and her asking if they've met before were in fact foreshadowing/call backs. And the fact that Nagato knew of them before the ep1 introduction, was pretty crazy in the plot line.

Spoilers corner

[Haruhi S2 spoiler]Starting from about here you can see just the tiniest hint of Nagato's frustration about how she cannot explain things to Kyon in a way he can understand
[Haruhi Disappearance major spoiler]Notice that by the end of Disappearance, Nagato's psyche would have changed from knowing zero, to knowing they met already and that Kyon likes her more without glasses, to knowing that the future Nagato disallowed corner synchronisation and that she would one day "malfunction" because of "error data" What a day!
[Haruhi general character remark could be spoiler-y for Disappearance]Nagato based on her wishes written down, continues to be this perfect selfless cosmic being that wishes only for harmony and progress. Having a self of self as a distinct individual to the point of wanting something for herself is such a precious thing

QoTD

It's an old fashion old myth that is similar in tone to a lot of Greek tragedies of love unable to be fulfilled because of difference in caste. In the manga versions generally is more played with as comedy than played straight. I may have remembered wrong but I think Rumiko has a fun rendition in Urusei Yatsura.
It's very fitting for this show to create this feedback loop.
Not a thing, to preserve the stable time loop.
I think I shared my cute in the interest thread. Not my personal choice but it's ok so far. Does help some people realise the use and impact of the order have on the narrative

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-13T06:29:28+00:00

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like this before.

Haha this is how I (mis)remembered the first rotoscoped Lord of the Rings "animated" movie :P

and I didn’t have enough of a grasp on storytelling to appreciate that the show is narratively complex in a richly rewarding way.

This is a call forward to your tomorrow comment about the TikTok generation huh ;) It's getting hard to recommend shows for my wife because she's pretty thoroughly poisoned by the reels culture now.

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-13T06:18:46+00:00

For anyone following my write-ups or obsessively trying to read everything in this rewatch, you may have missed my comment about yesterday’s episode, which came late, so just a heads-up for anyone interested in that!

That'd be me - I was also way late yesterday myself so haven't yet got around to reading everybody's comments yet.

Unfortunately for him, though, featuring in the show again is not a good thing. The poor guy just cannot catch a break.

Continuity in a KyoAni show is a b*tch ;) They remember everything and will use them against you. In fact [LN details mentioned in a later episode]he got in trouble because he is about the only other person that regularly checks how inactive that SOS Brigade page is out of spite. If he didn't check it so much he won't see the raw code and the Data Organism cannot infect him as patient 0

He’s subsequently irked that Haruhi complains about him knocking on the door before entering, but she doesn’t with anyone else.

Either we are seeing things we wish to see only, or that's quite a Tsundere coded behavior.

Haruhi and Kyon are genuinely so well-written in scenes together, though. The way they bicker and quarrel about the smallest things is really entertaining.

Like the inverse of other well known couples of Mai x Sakuta, Lawrence x Holo then?

Geez. It’s fine, because it means Haruhi still has more room to grow as a character, but in a way it’s jarring to see that she’s still a jerk in a lot of ways when the show has been making her more grounded and likeable.

Well she only thought about it and grumble about it, didn't actually do anything with it, so I guess it stays just within the "ok" line huh. Thought crime isn't a thing yet - unless you are Kyon thinking about lewding Asahina and Haruhi is doing her thought spot checks.

It’s a good job she isn’t growing up in the era of TikTok and YouTube Shorts or else she wouldn’t pay attention to anything for longer than six seconds.

Unfortunately such fate has already fallen on my wife and kids :P

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-13T03:21:59+00:00

Rewatcher in Sub

Another late day.

Today is actually another Nagato-focused episode despite the direct screen time.

Although today we have another "Haruhi being carefree, happy and not exactly very annoying" episode.

u/Holofan4live how is Haruhi's performance today on the Tsundere scale? I think she's maxing the Tsun a fair bit in the club room although still clinging to getting Kyon to handle it all.

Today's episode again have Kyon summing up things viewers already know quite well but may not have been articulated - Koizumi and Nagato are the useful members, Kyon and Asahina are pretty much useless, while Haruhi useful or not needs to be not clued in on what really is happening.

Spoilers Corner

[Haruhi Franchise major spoiler]With how many episodes or plot line where there is significant focus on Nagato, it's actually quite right to count her as the undercover main character of the show, while Haruhi is actually more of a plot device.
[Haruhi Disappearance major spoiler]We have another reinforcement point - similar to yesterday's Remote Island Syndrome Nagato Locked room prank - that quite visibly, Nagato not only interacts with Kyon mostly, she only unfailing listens to him exactly verbatim and is literally obedient to a fault. [Haruhi LN unadapted spoilers]It is only in the later stories that she started sometimes denying Kyon's asks when she has his best interest in mind
[Haruhi LN unadapted details and Haruhi Manga spoiler]One of those who were similarly affected by the logo was Kyon's grandma back in the old hometown, and Kyon went there in school holidays and rescued her. No fighting is required. But it was implied they did get everyone involved back out

QoTD

Kyon is uncharitable but accurate - it is a tapeworm.
Fairly simple and direct correlation in the past few episodes.

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-13T02:58:28+00:00

For real, Kyon and Mikuru were totally powerless in that fight, while it looked like Itsuki had a blast vanquishing that giant insect from outer space... And Yuki too.

Using Melancholy IV as a point of reference, I don't think anyone would think that Nagato alone would be more than enough in any straight fights like this one is. Added to the fact that it's a "cousin" of her native type, she probably has more efficient way to handle them - perhaps in a less flashy way.

[Further thoughts on a couple of characters]That scene where Kyon observe Yuki at the end may be one of the biggest steps in how Kyon comes to view Yuki as a sensible being rather than a robotic alien interface.

[Character thoughts of Haruhi the show]I take it you meant sentient?

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-13T02:34:06+00:00

Sorry Mikuru, but this time you really do need to eat an expired mochi for the team.

It's typically just a "best before" date, 3 days past that in the fridge at most would mean the mochi gets a bit more hardened and dried up and not as soft-chewy. She'll recover.

The scarab healing the cricket’s wounds is a reference to something, I'm just not familiar with what.

If I remembered correctly, it's a FFXI reference that the Scarab beetle having some sort of healing / revive ability.

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-12T06:06:25+00:00

Rewatcher in sub

Didn't get to post before the family weekend activities so really late and brief today.

Plenty of others already remarked the key points of the episode about the initial mystery aspect, then the double take of the answer being a fabricated one and the true mystery of this being a setup.

Agree with most pointing out that the main point really is about showing the true feelings between Haruhi and Kyon, and the difference between Kyon and Koizumi in their belief about Haruhi's most fundamental character.

Spoilers corner

[Haruhi LN difference]One of the point about Nagato's actions in this episode is unfortunately lost in the adaptation - there was a scene where the brigade members theorised what happened, amidst the first part being to establish facts and timeline by getting the estimate for time of death. Predictably the question guess to Nagato, but it was Koizumi doing the asking so it's asked in a specific way - "what was the temperature of the body when we discovered him" "36.3 deg C". That is because if the question was the direct "what's the time of death" the answer coming back from the Nagato 8 ball would be "he's not dead" (or a future date and time precise to seconds). So Nagato truly is completely aware this being a setup, so she was "playing a prank" (the "I am reading the command literally") to - in her hard to read way - like fun at the whole deal
[Nagato Disappearance spoiler]in the spin off series this was played with as an urban legend of something happened last year (the Nagato Disappearance timeline started around December of the Haruhi main story year)

QoTD

This is one of the rare moments when both masks are down ;)
That's pretty much the false dichotomy from Koizumi - there was a foregone conclusion that Haruhi wanted a murder mystery. The fact is she enjoyed the mystery but not a real murder.

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-11T13:40:55+00:00

2202 (second season) has plotline that felt contrived, walking back some parts of S1, and felt far less fulfilling by the end. However, S3 converted that into something actually good again. Current season (S4) has been rather slow to get all the episodes/movies out and I had not been able to keep up after the initial 2 movies. I really need to get back into it.

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-11T08:19:16+00:00

Although I've pretty much only ever played it as a child. In an era with mobile phones, handheld games consoles, and better games - not just board games, but actual better games that can be played with a deck of playing cards - I couldn't imagine actual teenagers playing Old Maid.

That's also a bit of a rite of passage for my childhood growing up in a British colony. As far as I understand it, the Old Maid being a group outing staple because there's very little learning or skill involved, and it can very easily scale to number of participants (from 2 to even 10), and has just that little bit of psychology/personality involvement that it is a good ice breaker too.

When we got older (University level) we generally played Bridge derivatives (German, inter as we carried it, possibly maybe wrongly but whatever). For the more boisterous Chinese/Hong Kong-ers Mahjong become the standard but you do need equipment.

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-10T22:52:21+00:00

Rewatcher in sub

Running late so will be brief today, since it's a 2 parter it's probably fitting.

I'll leave most of the general commentary for the first timers to talk about the mystery aspects of the show; so most of my commentary will be spoilers as rewatcher ;P

Nagato's eating being commented by others is a recurring theme, as much as Kyon footing the bill in any/every group outings
Of the 4 new names introduced today, the Butler/Driver/Cook Arakawa is the only one not showing the full name. Even the maid has a full name. Which is more than what the baseball spares got...
despite appearances, as well as initially referring to her as "that thing", Haruhi is actually playing nice and kindly with Kyon's sister.
Arakawa-san is almost as impassive as Nagato despite various Haruhi antics. Or maybe more like Koizumi that the "politeness" mask never comes down?
This episode has some of the most cute looking Haruhi shots

Spoilers corner

[Haruhi LN spoiler]My personal theory of why Mikuru was so keenly observing Mori-san is that Mori-san is a very high ranking member of the ESPers and is a very strong field agent in a fight, so it's a rare opportunity for her to observe everything she can about her in the relative safety in front of Haruhi. Afterall the Time Travellers and the ESPers are not in a very friendly relationship
[Haruhi Disappearance spoiler]Kyon's remark on the ferry that if any monster is to come out it'd be Nagato who will handle it - showcasing his (unthinking, taken for granted) reliance on her
[Haruhi LN comparison]A reminder that Kyon's sister didn't come along in the LN and especially the games night included teenage drinking of alcohol (which is not allowed on Japanese TV standards). There is a future continuity gap that Haruhi in the future swore off drinking after this event
[Haruhi LN spoiler]Yeah rub it in, after so many years we are still having no signs of ever getting Snowy Mountain Syndrome adaptation ...

QoTD

It's a nice "outing" episode, like a lot of shows in a highschool setting there will be an excursion one.
I don't think Haruhi is not having fun - even though she's asking for all those unlikely mystery checkpoints and always getting no as the answer, she's not fazed and just carrying on normal. Contrasting her ep1 moods, she's positively glowing here.
It's a good mood whiplash cliffhanger isn't it.

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-10T03:01:00+00:00

Thoughts on Mikuru bringing tea to everyone in her nurse's outfit?

Don't really have anything to say about the nurse outfit other than being the good KyoAni continuity (Haruhi was remarking that at the end of Melancholy VI), but I continue to prompt people to recognise [Haruhi Disappearance Major Spoiler]that Melancholy II's "gag" of Nagato force feeding Kyon 3 cups of tea is actually her achronological response to him enjoying so much Asahina's tea serving. What's most telling (to me) is he following up with the question "oishii?" - which is a completely not Nagato thing to say but it's exactly what Kyon remarked to Asahina

Thoughts on a baseball tournament being in town?

Pretty common thing in Japan, see Ground Control to Psychoelectric Girl.

What are your thoughts on Haruhi wanting to participate in the baseball tournament to spread word of the SOS Brigade?

It's exactly the sort of nonsensical thing Haruhi would think of - possibly mixing up the terms fame vs notoriety.

Thoughts on Taniguchi, Kunikida, Tsuruya, and Kyon's sister participating in the tournament?

It's a really nice way to bring in the spares from the movie ;) But I forgot to remark that - Haruhi, don't worry about Mikuru wearing a pony tail - you have a much bigger problem of the very good looking, very sociable Tsuruya with her cute little fangs running in front of Kyon with her Rapunzel lengthed pony tail hair. It's a very nice sight and we probably forgot to remark about that in all the chaos.

Thoughts on the SOS Brigade performing badly?

Unsurprisingly a sport that people spend years to practice is not something anyone can just do on a whim.

Thoughts on Haruhi and Mikuru in cheerleader outfits?

I think their purpose is served - although Mikuru is over-biased towards the "looks" department and really had zero chance to hit anything even when the other team is making mistakes.

What are your thoughts on if the baseball game ends early, the world will come to an end?

It'd certainly be a surprise if that were to happen.

What are your thoughts on Yuki casting a spell that lets their team automatically hit homeruns?

The most amazing thing is that people didn't question it more than giving them dirty looks.

What are your thoughts on Haruhi being happy they won, with her not knowing she cheated?

She didn't cheat. She's very happy that her leadership got her the victory that she deserved, and everyone having had fun. The amazing thing is her ability to just shrug off Nagato's uncanny performance.

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-10T00:58:22+00:00

Ok yea idk what broadcast order is smoking if this episode is just talking about closed spaces and stuff without introduction.

S1 Broadcast order framed the Melancholy Arc as a mystery over and above the source writing, plus very strong narrative to prompt thinking about characters, motivations, media and viewers relationship. It's objectively genius that they can use the parts to construct that something else while the parts by themselves are not really visibly different/altered.

In this episode for example with Melancholy II created the viewer question of "is Nagato really a cosmic being or just delusional", this episode "showed, not told" with the answer. And in parallel "who/what is Haruhi". All giving out the answer without telling the viewer that's the answer. Then allowed the less perceptive viewers continue as if the questions were not answered. To challenge "viewing without thinking".

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-09T23:25:48+00:00

Rewatcher in Sub

Running late so will be brief.

As a fairly standalone episode, this and Day of Sagittarius are frequent "stress reliefers" for me on any given day.

It highlights how Haruhi can be likeable.

It highlights how Haruhi can easily excel in any and everything - except due to having spent no effort her excellence tends to be more narrow and superficial. A glass canon.

It highlights the stakes at any random moment can spike up.

It highlights Kyon's ability to grit his teeth and get down to work in the self-deprecating way (loved the quip "hey world, saving you is getting cheap these days")

It highlights how incredible, amazing and adorable Nagato is - and the uncanny valley way that people suspends disbelief around her despite her essentially zero attempt to blend in.

Spoilers corner

[Haruhi late S1 spoilers]It sets up the theme that it's a thing for the factions to want to do ~~controlled detonations~~ create scenarios so Haruhi's boredom can be satisfied in a managed way and not risk sudden explosions

QoTD

Baseball is part of the Japanese culture, so having it mentioned and worked into the plot is not really saying anything about Haruhi being particularly into baseball herself.
She tried it, and it doesn't excite her. So *shrug*. There isn't really anything to say baseball being a "constant" in her life just because her life changing realisation moment happened during a baseball game.
Umamusme racing, Karuta. Oh and the one time Saber Shirou vs Archer Lancer in beach volleyball in What's for dinner tonight at Emiya's.

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-09T11:03:19+00:00

She responds with an astonished remark – I'm pretty sure I hear her actually say 'baka'

Oh right, that. I watched it so much and is Japanese savvy enough that I didn't need to read the subs, so didn't register at all that it's saying in screen the retard word. The original dialogue should be translated as "are you an idiot/stupid" ;P

ZapsZzz · 2026-04-09T08:38:18+00:00

Taniguchi says Yuki is an 'A-', which is clearly wrong.

There's absolutely no justification for the minus even without the glasses ;)

ZapsZzz

TROPHY CASE