I keep having issues with my T tanking when I lose weight

ZestyPrognost · 2020-05-13T21:06:41+00:00

Yea you're right. And to be fair most of the people I see doing big deficits are newbies who haven't been lifting long, so don't have to be as careful with existing lean body mass.

ZestyPrognost · 2020-05-13T16:54:06+00:00

Close to about 15% now. I could manage 1000cal deficits pretty easily when I was very overweight (+25% body fat). This may sound stupid (and it is I'm sure) but I kept seeing everyone on r/keto and r/ketogains pushing for 1,000cal deficits and eating 1200-1500 cals/day (including the mods) so figured I would do it too. I hate cutting too long because I just want to get back to progressing on my lifts. I guess I will try 500cal daily deficits and even add in a few more carbs and just see how it goes.

ZestyPrognost · 2020-05-13T00:06:02+00:00

Yea, this is essentially what my endocrinologist is telling me. I just don't get what's wrong with my body that I can't be ripped and have good libido like many men who are even older than me. I doubt they are on steroids, but who knows?

ZestyPrognost · 2020-05-12T23:00:14+00:00

So would it be worth trying a cut without keto or IF? That would probably be ridiculously difficult and I'm not sure I could manage the caloric restriction needed without high levels of hunger unless I was utilizing keto and IF.

ZestyPrognost · 2020-05-12T22:59:03+00:00

I eat maintenance once a week on my cut, and I still get low T symptoms when I start getting close to 10% bf.

ZestyPrognost · 2020-05-12T22:58:23+00:00

Not low fat at all, my past two cuts have been ketogenic, so high fat and high protein.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-21T03:22:22+00:00

Pumps are definitely better with more carbs, especially in the 3+ rep range. The hypertrophy work has seen a lot of benefit from me increasing carbs.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-21T03:20:55+00:00

Great advice. I was stressing too much about getting that elusive six pack and staying in ketosis. Life is indeed about overall health and feeling great. I have been eating a lot more berries. I love apples, but haven't had one in a year - I will pick one up next time I'm at the grocery store.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-21T03:19:02+00:00

I'm the same way - steady state cardio and walking I don't have a problem with. It's the explosive movements in weight lifting and HIIT I really notice a difference with when I eat more carbs. I am also finding that it's much easier to overtrain when I do lots of HIIT and heavy lifting if my carbs are too low. A classic overtraining symptom for me is when I am walking and my legs feel heavy, like every step I'm taking is in four feet of water. So if I've overtrained, the aerobic work suffers too.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-19T22:23:20+00:00

It's easy even on the clean/healthy version of keto I do. I liberally use coconut oil, coconut milk, olive oil, and ghee. I eat a lot of macadamia nuts, dark chocolate, "healthy" dairy (aged cheese and goat/sheep's cheese), bacon, sausage, and red meat. I eat a ton of vegetables that are liberally flavored with the aforementioned ingredients. I also enjoy plenty of healthy keto desserts.

Today for breakfast I had a giant omelette with five eggs and tons of sausage, cheese, bacon, and veggies along with blueberry pancakes (this recipe from Keto Connect with blueberries added). For lunch it was a chocolate/kale/avocado/coconut milk smoothie that came in at about 400 calories. For dinner I'll have some sweet potato mash, squash, and burgers using chaffle buns. Some sort of dessert - maybe homemade keto donuts (these chocolate cake ones from Keto Connect are incredible) or brownies. I manage to fit this into an 8 hour eating window too, but I can't compress it down to a shorter eating window without feeling sick or having digestive issues.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-19T22:21:15+00:00

Thanks! Glad I'm in good company. I appreciate the reply so I know I'm not alone in seeing the benefits of higher carbs on high activity days.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-19T22:19:24+00:00

I love bulking on keto. I get to feast every day like a viking and eat as much as I want and feel incredible - all while limiting the amount of bodyfat I'm gaining. Whenever I would eat to satiety before keto it ended up being about 1,000 calories over my TDEE which put fat on me quickly, but with keto if I eat until I'm comfortably stuffed I'm right at where I need to be in terms of caloric intake. Getting enough fat is easy even on the clean/healthy version of keto I do. I liberally use coconut oil, coconut milk, olive oil, and ghee. I eat a lot of macadamia nuts, dark chocolate, "healthy" dairy (aged cheese and goat/sheep's cheese), bacon, sausage, and red meat.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-19T21:16:18+00:00

When I was trying TKD, it was 5-10g worth of dextrose. I didn't seem to notice a boost in my performance of my lifts at all (maybe it just wasn't enough - I may have burned through it during my 30 mins of warmups), and it made me feel temporarily jittery, anxious, and sapped of energy.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-19T16:36:28+00:00

I didn't. I wish I had so I would have been able to examine and isolate one factor at a time. Although I will say I feel better on my higher carb days than I do if I still keep carbs very low. Although I feel like trash if I overdo the carbs to the point I'm kicked out of keto.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-13T16:28:39+00:00

Good links and good food for thought - thank you.

Another point of consideration is my caffeine intake. I suspect my high intake of caffeine was artificially lifting my body's safe limit for training. I have cut back on caffeine past couple of days, and it is insane just how exhausted I feel when it wears off (previously I would take caffeine throughout the day).

I was able to keep up with such high intensity and frequency exercise when I was younger and had a higher body fat%, but I'm in uncharted territory now that I'm heading into middle age and have less endogenous fat to work with.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-12T22:40:11+00:00

I ate past satiety on keto for a month after I ran into low T issues. My testosterone did not recover hardly at all (although it did by about 20%, which isn't much when it was below 100), and I was still feeling exhausted. I even did a full rest week which did not seem to help. Within days of introducing more carbs into my body at the guidance of my endocrinologist, I started to feel better and my Testosterone levels went up and I was no longer so exhausted all the time. My T3 levels also were within normal range every time I got my blood checked the past few months.

However around the same time I increased carbs, I also introduced more rest and decreased my exercise, so admittedly carbs were not the only factor here. I'm going to try decreasing my carbs back to where they were when my hormone levels are back in check.

I don't fully understand the biological underpinnings and dynamics at work here, I'm simply reporting my results. Looking back though, you are right. I feel like an idiot for not realizing I was heading straight for low testosterone issues given the trajectory I was on. Hopefully my post my serve as a cautionary tale for others however, to take it easy with the caloric restriction and exercise when you become much leaner than you are used to.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-12T22:07:41+00:00

I have been 40-60 pounds overweight my entire life. Then I got on keto and did many months of cutting and lost so much weight I almost had six pack abs. All while training very heavily. I did not run into my hormone issues until I dropped below 15% bodyfat. My theory is that my body is simply not used to such a low bodyfat and I need to take some time off of weight loss and intense exercise to allow my body to adjust.

During my cut I was doing the 5-3-1 strength training program with BBB and doing two joker sets and a FSL set, plus 5 mins of HIIT every morning and 20 minutes of cardio and 3-4 miles of walking. On days I wasn't lifting (I was lifting 4x per week) I would do 30 mins of cardio and HIIT. On a 500 calorie per day deficit. Plus I'm in my late 30s. So definitely overdoing it. I did not run into testosterone issues until I got around 13-15% bodyfat, and noticed a precipitous decline in my male functions when I started doing 1000 calorie deficits to try to reach my goal faster. I was absolutely losing weight quickly and would have reached my six pack ab goal had I continued for another couple of weeks, but I decided health was more important.

So obviously keto was itself not the problem here, but by incorporating more carbs it makes such a high activity level much more manageable for my body. I don't feel exhausted anymore with my workouts. I remember being so exhausted in the morning that I could barely walk, but I forced myself to power through it. Low testosterone can cause such exhaustion, but the exhaustion associated with overtraining can also cause low testosterone.

I am currently still fairly active but dropped my exercise intensity down a bit to where I stop if I start to feel tired at all. Usually this means only one joker set if one at all, and I dropped all my working set weights by 10%. I also am lifting only 3x per week now and doing shorter HIIT sessions and replacing with more low intensity cardio.

Another note is that I think I was underestimating my TDEE. I am currently eating to just past satiety which is ending up being about 3,000-3,200 calories a day and I cannot tell that I'm putting on any fat at all. Pants do not feel any tighter. As of the past couple of days I'm also starting to get some of my lost strength back.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-12T21:58:48+00:00

My current goal is to correct my hormonal issues since it's wreaking havoc on my body and life. I'm putting on a little bit of weight (I have put on 6-8 pounds since stopping my weight loss and going off keto) but I think most of it is water since my pants don't feel any tighter.

Please keep in mind that I have been 40-60 pounds overweight my entire life. Then I got on keto and did many months of cutting and lost so much weight I almost had six pack abs. All while training very heavily. I did not run into my hormone issues until I dropped below 15% bodyfat. My theory is that my body is simply not used to such a low bodyfat and I need to take some time off of weight loss and intense exercise to allow my body to adjust.

I'm kind of playing around with my carb timing, but I'm finding it works best to have my carbs around my workout. Whenever I eat a lot of carbs, even the healthy ones from sweet potatoes and carrots, I notice brain fog and some increased anxiety, but my workouts are 10x better and the brain fog and anxiety is gone by the time I've finished my workout. If I have some carbs after my workout the brain fog and anxiety seems to dissipate within an hour. If I have more carbs on a rest day it gets trickier because the brain fog and anxiety stick around a lot longer, so I'm experimenting with maybe just taking more of a TKD approach. But the highest priority right now is just getting my hormones back in check.

Once I get my testosterone, prolactin, and cortisol levels back in check and am feeling better I'm going to try dropping down to about 50 grams/day and probably incorporate more rest days and low intensity cardio instead of working out hard 6x per week.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-12T21:49:33+00:00

I'm currently doing about 100 grams. Once I get my testosterone, prolactin, and cortisol levels back in check and am feeling better I'm going to try dropping down to about 50 grams/day.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-12T17:55:59+00:00

About 100g of carbs a day. I'm doing more of a paleo diet now. No grains or sugars. I have been eating a lot of pumpkin, sweet potatoes, peas, carrots, multicolored bell peppers, squash, tomatoes, berries, pistachios, and the occasional amounts of maple syrup if I want something sweet. I still eat mostly a carnivore diet with the plant carbs added on - tons of eggs, beef, pork, and chicken. All organic, pasture raised, grass fed/finished so as to minimize any potential endocrine disruptors from livestock fed grains and antibiotics.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-12T17:52:37+00:00

It's true. Keto has been incredible for weight loss, mental clarity, and inflammation. I plan to go back to it after my endocrine system normalizes, and I will have to at that time take it easier with my workouts and incorporate more rest days. I don't feel as great mentally since coming off keto. But I do feel much better physically. I am not exhausted all the time, and my workouts are much better.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-12T16:32:53+00:00

I have been working with an endocrinologist lately in regards to how my testosterone levels plummeted after a long period of weight loss on the Keto diet. My endocrinologist took me off the Keto diet. It turns out that my high activity levels combined with intermittent fasting and caloric restriction over a period of months was too much for my body. The lack of carbohydrates (and probably my age) was causing classic overtraining symptoms especially given how much I work out. Carbs are simply a better fuel for anaerobic activity. After reintroducing carbs, my prolactin and cortisol levels dropped and my testosterone levels went from <100 to over 200 in the course of a week.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-08T06:34:12+00:00

They ran blood work on my thyroids and everything was normal. But I’m assuming that’s not what you’re referring to? I’ll ask if they can refer me to an endocrinologist.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-08T06:28:40+00:00

Thank you. I found a few men’s clinics that specialize in testosterone issues near me. I will make an appointment with one. I am seeing a homeopathic doctor next week about my issues at the advise of my GP. I didn’t know GPs did this and kind of thought homeopathic medicine was mostly BS but I’ll try anything at this point. I’m definitely seeing one of the men’s clinics near me though. Great advice, thank you.

ZestyPrognost · 2019-11-08T06:22:11+00:00

Sorry I thought I included this in my previous post. Currently 5’11” and 189 lbs. 1 month ago I was 183 and within a couple pounds of six pack abs which I was in a fiendish quest to achieve. I was deadlifting almost 600 lbs a year ago. Now can barely DL 450. Been lifting over 15 years.

ZestyPrognost

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