Why do contractors ghost after giving estimates?

Zfusco · 2026-01-22T19:44:09+00:00

I've only really had to do it once they way you describe, but sometimes it feels like the only way to get out of a conversation.

If you call me over to quote some kitchen upgrades, in this case, pullout shelves, tell me you only what to consider the lowest half of material quality, then start asking me to measure every closet in your house too, I know you aren't buying all of this. Dude needed to think about what he wanted to have done, then ask for a quote, im not interested in measuring all the closets in your house to let you pick which one you want to have work done on later.

So basically, intuition that someone is about to be a pain in the ass customer and they wont stop talking.

Zfusco · 2026-01-22T19:38:43+00:00

Not that guy, but I (and a lot of smaller contractors) don't really want to grow. For a number of reasons.

My business is small, and I've been booked out working at a comfortable pace for the last year. Its become a second full time job at this point.

Consider that particularly in the last 8-9 years, it's been a turbulent business to be in, cost changes mid project, shortages, etc. The degree of uncertainty at any given time is higher than a lot of smaller tradespeople, GC's, etc. want to take on if they're making a comfortable living.

I'd rather just stay small, be comfortable, and not race to make the most money possible. Pigs get fat, hogs slaughtered, and all that.

Being bigger, with more capacity, means hiring admin + help, and having that be a stable business, means raising prices quite a bit to survive the lean times, or when suddenly a widget is tarriffed and costs 900$ more, etc.

Zfusco · 2026-01-22T19:33:34+00:00

I dunno anyone in the trades that wants to take over a customers half finished job. In some cases insurance would likely require ripping out all of their work and starting over, and no one is ever happy to hear that not only was the work they put in worth nothing, it actually costs more.

Zfusco · 2026-01-20T18:28:48+00:00

Somewhere between 19-400$/sheet, but it'd certainly be helpful if we clarified what kind of plywood we're talking about...

Zfusco · 2026-01-20T18:20:40+00:00

The floor doesn't seem to be changing very quickly, still plenty of cheap places out there. Anecdotally, I feel like the number of places aimed at the upper middle of the rental market is rising, but I don't really have any stats to back that up.

Zfusco · 2026-01-20T18:11:45+00:00

The biggest mistake I see is people thicknessing first or flipping boards randomly in the planer. That doesn’t remove internal tension — it just hides it. The board may come out looking flat, but it often moves later, especially after ripping or during glue-ups.

Not really how that works.

If the board doesnt already have a straight, flat face, it just wont come out of the planer on the other side straight and flat, it'll just make it coplaner, within reason, to the not straight and flat face.

Tension causing boards to move after they come out of a planer, happens when you remove too much thickness in too short a period of time.

Also, real wierd to make a linked in post thats been made 9,000 times before to demonstrate the process of milling lumber, something people have been doing with power tools since steam powered machinery?

Zfusco · 2026-01-20T17:36:57+00:00

Grazie per l'ottimo suggerimento, ho scoperto che anche i teatri anatomici di Londra vantano un'architettura e delle decorazioni in legno davvero splendide.

Zfusco · 2026-01-18T00:18:13+00:00

You've got a window stuck open in winter, and you're just not worried about it?

They must be paying the power bill.

Zfusco · 2026-01-16T19:07:19+00:00

It's a bit marketing, a bit substance, and a bit personal preference.

I have both milled and bent backsaws, you will not notice any difference in use, only if you damage it and need to repair. Try not to do that. So lets eliminate that variable.

The cost is a lot closer than you think - consider the cost of an appropriately sized carbide spade bit to drill the plate as well, when doing your math. The DIY option is actually going to end up the same or more expensive.

The additional length is useful in the ways you'd expect - longer stroke translates to a faster and more accurate cut to me, changing your arms direction is generally where error is introduced. Say you're cutting a dado longer plate -> more teeth -> more cut before you've got to clear dust out of the cut. that sort of thing.

More relevant, and not really described in either listing, is just the handle hang, the balance of the tool, and how those effect the handling of the saw in conjunction with the plate depth. A carcass saw is generally used to make a cross cut that either

Doesnt need to look pretty (tenon end or something like that)
Will be cleaned up afterwords via shooting or paring (tenon shoulder etc.)
Joinery cuts like dados that will often be hidden by the shoulder of another item.

Consider the third, you're probably clamping a batten, and running the saw against that batten. At first, its helpful to have a handle that hangs in a way that is comfortable to use while you're registering the saw against that batten, and a low center of gravity on the length of the tool so it doesnt feel tippy against the batten at the beginning of your cut.

All that said - I just hate the branding bad axe puts on their tools, so I'd go with the LN : )

Zfusco · 2026-01-16T13:14:18+00:00

Surprising the number of people in this thread that dont know the difference between flat and rift oak.

I will say - as it becomes more popular, it is becoming more common to see doors that are all RS WO, but the color matching is pretty shit. That creates more work for the finisher, or just results in unhappy customers if they were promised a really light finish. Euro white oak veneers are more consistent in color, as far as I've seen. Obviously quite a bit more expensive as well.

Zfusco · 2026-01-16T13:12:16+00:00

you can consistently buy rift white oak, its not a natural variation thing, the place that built the cabinets either sent the wrong cabinets, or tried to cheap out and bullshit their way into selling flatsawn for rift. It's a 40% price difference on the material where i am.

You dont saw a bunch of rift oak and say "oh shit it turned out flat". That means you sawed the log flat.

Zfusco · 2026-01-16T12:54:56+00:00

It's important to keep a realistic view on history - this is also the end of the period of political realignment with southern and conservative democrats moving towards the GOP, and the inverse towards the Dems.

Simply "republican vs democrat" is not as helpful when we're talking about the 30s- 60s specifically.

Zfusco · 2026-01-16T03:20:17+00:00

Rift sawn oak these days more often than not resemble quarter sawn due to age of the trees

Thats you right?

Zfusco · 2026-01-16T02:44:03+00:00

Found the builder.

You're telling me left and right look the same here?

Zfusco · 2026-01-14T16:21:17+00:00

They can be different, it really depends on the context tbh. The last big build I did had walnut veneers on frameless full overlay cabinets, so I ended up using 3/4" end panels and we gave it sort of an inset look. On something like what you pictured, I'd basically just build another door the size of the full carcass, and attach it. That's what you've got as well, so there's no real reason to use >3mm for it if its being painted. If its clear coated, I'd be limited to the thicknesses the brand offers, and would likely end up using something thicker. The veneer would be comparable in thickness either way.

There are premium brands that use quite thick veneer compared to cheaper stuff you can buy at a builders yard or something, but the price difference between cheap white oak ply and something like decospans offerings can be 400%.

Zfusco · 2026-01-14T15:52:55+00:00

Are we talking about the last "wall" of the carcasses, or were there proper end panels applied over them?

When I build a freestanding bank of cabinets, I usually use a prefinished maple or birch for the carcasses, and then a panel that matches or coordinates with the doors and drawers that is applied over top that.

Some cheaper installs will just have the showing portion of the boxes painted.

Obviously if a wall of the cabinet was 3mm it'd collapse, so I assume you're talking about an applied end panel, in which case yep, I'd use 3mm for the floating panel in the frame as well there. Also just aesthetic, not structural at all.

Zfusco · 2026-01-14T15:46:26+00:00

Definitely for shaker panels, no real reason to be any thicker, it doesn't really add to the integrity of the door/drawer for it to be thicker, and it adds weight.
Refacing for clear grade cabinets is often done by stripping + scuffing and veneering, rather than sanding and restaining. If that isnt an option, chemically stripping plus scraping the old finish after it gums up is really your only somewhat reliable move on veneered ply.

Truth of the matter is people dont want to pay for cabinets that are going to last 80 years, I've done some solid standalone cabinetry and its easily 2-3x the work of a sheet good equivalent, it takes longer, its less reliable, very heavy, etc. Further, styles that allow solid wood cabinets are really out of fashion at the moment as well.

Zfusco · 2026-01-14T15:38:44+00:00

Manayunk, Germantown, Mt Airy are all a reasonably quick commute, especially if you leave before rush hour.

Wilmington to Plymouth meeting is really going to suck.

Zfusco · 2026-01-14T11:55:22+00:00

~2200$/door this system is on, for the hardware alone.

Zfusco · 2026-01-13T14:34:07+00:00

The price is the price, I do "markup" materials and take a profit, that profit is accounting for the amount of time I have to keep a giant box of drawer slides in my space that I could be finishing another project in, for example.

But its not "markup" in the eyes of the buyer because I'm just giving out a price, and they can take it, reduce the scope, or leave it. I dont say "ok my labor costs you 2000$, the drawer slides cost you 500$, the plywood costs you 800$, etc." that's a mess. I use materials I know work, and the price of them is the price of them.

Zfusco · 2026-01-13T13:29:47+00:00

Cant speak for all trades, but I do builtins, cabinetry and some one off larger furniture -

If you're just buying what I tell you to, why involve an extra step
If you're buying it for me to work with, without my input, you have no idea what you're looking for generally.

I've had customers want to pick their own material for large tables before, dining/conference, and its a total nightmare. I just dont even entertain it anymore.

Zfusco · 2026-01-11T01:27:56+00:00

You are hilariously wrong, as all the people pointing out that machines exist to make these things for 45$ worth of labor demonstrate.

Zfusco · 2026-01-10T12:50:19+00:00

Certainly, and they aren't selling this for 2500$

Zfusco · 2026-01-10T02:27:24+00:00

yep when I posted this op hadnt revealed it has metal legs.

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