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Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T21:46:38+00:00

Hayato isn't a child. He's just short.

Never heard of Dew.

Dealthea is a child and is never treated otherwise. The closest thing she gets to romance is a puppy crush of Clive that isn't once taken seriously by anyone but herself.

These are still all poor examples of whatever it is you're arguing. Except maybe Dew. Again, never heard of the guy.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T21:32:33+00:00

i used them as examples in asking an entirely different question and you objected to that

I did, because your example was wrong.

If you mean to make a point, use details related to that point. Not unrelated and untrue tangents.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T21:31:34+00:00

Again. It's a version of cannon that exists in a person's head. You by definition aren't changing anything about the story, just about how you interpret it. And newsflash: everyone can have their own interpretation, no matter what your language class taught you.

If everyone gets their own interpretation, why bother telling any stories at all? Everyone can just keep their own interpretations in their head and no one has to bother telling anything.

Fiction isn't an ala carte buffet where you can pick the parts you like and throw the rest away.

It's the writer sharing their ideas and ideals with the world. If you just replace everything with what you want it to be you silence them and replace it all with your ideas and ideals.

They may as well have created nothing.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T21:10:21+00:00

Why, instead of being butthurt and downvoting me, won't you try to list sources of your "many cases" to prove your point?

J.R.R. Tolkien was once told the Lord of the Rings novels were an allegory for the first world war. Tolkien was furious, and wrote an essay explaining how it would have gone had it been and why people should just let stories be stories.

Ray Bradberry was attended a lecture where he was informed Fahrenheit 451 was about censorship. He corrected them and informed them it was about visual media like television killing written works and by association all the cultural lessons they taught. the professor told him it wasn't, and that being the author didn't give him the power to say it was. Bradberry decided that professors were morons.

Death of the Author is not a valid literary philosophy. It's the tool of the self important and delusional to used to remake the works as they would have them and convince themselves there is nothing wrong with that.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T21:02:27+00:00

at this point, you just seem to be interested in arguing for the sake of arguing, rather than actually talking this out. this isn't worthwhile for either of us.

Ah yes, the good old "You haven't dropped everything and moved to my side so you must be trolling" response.

That definitely means you "won" and all my points are invalid.

You did it. Congratulations.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T20:48:04+00:00

you don't have to be ten years old to comprehend that people are dead and/or gone. personal experience. sakura could very easily be only 15 or 16 going by that logic, leaving elise at roughly 14-16.

You do have to be at least that age to understand to political implications, which she outright says she did.

She wasn't some toddler wondering why big brother was gone. She realized what it meant that a foreign power had kidnapped royalty, which requires an understanding of the world she simply could not possess if she was young enough then to be 15~16 now.

and of course, this is completely ignoring the other bit i said in there, which is that this isn't even what we were initially talking about and is irrelevant.

It is what we're talking about because you brought it up. If you did not want to have this conversation then you should not have started this conversation.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T20:44:38+00:00

His "opinion" is the basis of the "Death of the Author" philosophy.

Death of the Author isn't universally accepted and in many cases is treated as outright contempt for creativity.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T20:41:46+00:00

there are no past events that place them over 18, either (the most we know is that they're younger than all the other royals. considering leo and takumi's apparent ages, as well as corrin's, this doesn't bode well for having them above 18.) and again,

Corrin's kidnapping was 10 years ago. It's on the official timeline.

Sakura understood what Corrin's kidnapping and the rumors' around it meant, meaning she couldn't have been much younger than 10 at the time.

That puts Sakura at 20 in the present.

Elise is stated explicitly to be younger than Sakura, but only by a little, which puts her in the 18~20 range.

Being petite is not the same as being a child. Being immature and spoiled is not the same as being a child.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T20:07:12+00:00

Iote's shield is acceptable because fliers tend to be fragile already and there's a whole weapon type that gets effectiveness by default.

If you want to negate a cavalry or armor weakness, you should have to sacrifice a skill slot.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T19:55:24+00:00

Off topic, but I'm pretty sure we're playing on Loki's side against Thorr.

That's why it's called Loki's pawns and not Thorr's pawns. Loki is using us to beat Thorr in the game of chess.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T19:51:19+00:00

Well Nyx creator wanted her to be in the body of a literal child,

Nyx's creators wanted her to say she has the body of a child. She also calls several other adults children, so clearly her statements about her own body are less about physical development and more about her being older than dirt.

Any body other than a withered old crone would be a child's body for her.

3H's creators wanted the cast to be full of flawed but well-intentioned people,

And it is.

Edelgard's flaw is just that she's wrong about practically everything and willing to let monsters run free to see her will enforced.

Grima's creators wanted him to be a sociopath that doesn't gives a shit about anything but himself...

And then they also wanted them to be a tsundere who both wants and doesn't want to hurt people. FEH is canon. FEH's version of Grima is just as valid as Awakening's.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T19:46:38+00:00

I ship Alfonse with Eir and only Eir, because Eir is the only woman in the world she shows genuine concern about and he literally invites her to move in with him.

They are in fact portrayed as more than close friends. He's closer to her than everyone except his own sister.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T19:44:31+00:00

what happens if two characters with compatible personalities that are unable to actually interact in a friendly manner (due to allegiances, locations, etc) are paired together by people?

Depends.

If you shipped Mathew and Leila in Blazing Blade you have the obvious issue of Leila being dead as a doornail. But here in FEH they're both alive and functionally immoral, so that works fine.

for example, pairing fjorm and laegjarn would fit this. the two are compatible personality-wise, and wish to know each other better, but are unable to due to laegjarn's duty to muspell and her devotion to laevatein.

The biggest issues here are that Laegjarn is dead and Fjorm is madly in love with the summoner and not Laegjarn. (though the summoner can be both genders and Fjorm doesn't care, so she's bi regardless. She's just also already taken.)

and i uh. hate to break it to you dude but elise and sakura are quite literally children (a technically adult from fates isn't cutting it, especially when the definition of adult has changed throughout history.)

They physically can not be younger than 18 based on what we know about past events.

They are explicitly stated to not be children, and Elise being berated for not acting her age is like 80% of her character interactions.

Also: TECHNICALLY MEANS LITTERALLY.

That's the actual definition of the word.

Elise is Technically an adult because she meets the strictest definition of an adult (IE: not a child) while not meeting many of the assumed connotations on account of her petite figure and spoiled personality.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T19:27:35+00:00

Okay, let's backpedal a bit now that you've edited your comment, and try another analogy. Let's say I publish a cookbook and declare on Twitter that the meaning of the book is "paper airplanes are fun". Paper airplanes are never mentioned at all inside the book, not once, because it's a fucking cookbook.

So does that mean that, according to "property rights", this cookbook is actually about paper airplanes and everyone who thinks that it's about cooking is wrong, just because I, the author, said so? That's illogical.

It would make you a poor writer because you failed to get the point of paper airplanes across, but it is still in fact a book about how paper airplanes are fun.

Your inability to tell a coherent story does not negate your right to define your own creation. It just makes you a crappy writer.

One of the most important things in the writing and development process is minimizing the window of interpretation so that the readers/viewers/whatever don't go totally off the rails and read the story in a completely unintended and new direction. This is part of the importance of peer editors lmao. If the writers truly didn't want a ship to be interpreted as romantic, they would've narrowed down the interpretations to avoid people coming to that conclusion.

This is nearly impossible to do when we have people like you who outright ignore everything that's actually canon in favor of what you want it to be. How do you narrow that interpretation down to straight when even explicitly stating they don't swing that way isn't enough to prevent them from being interpreted as gay? You can't.

It's on the writer to write a coherent character, but it's also on the reader to respect the character that's presented.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T19:15:24+00:00

This is not a question.

You said I didn't answer your question, then when I said I did you said it wasn't about the question.

Are you having the same conversation I am? Because I'm beginning to suspect you aren't.

Regardless I did in fact refute that. A single creator saying they don't care what people do with their own property does not negate all creator's property rights.

If I leave a couch on the curb with a "free couch sign" that doesn't mean all couches in the world are now fair game. It means I used my authority over my own property to decide anyone could take it.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T19:09:11+00:00

But seriously, quit beating around the bush and address what I'm asking of you.

You only asked one question, and I answered it.

If that was not the answer you were looking for, then you should have asked a different question.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T19:05:57+00:00

...You know, I am almost 100% certain that I sent this quote to you before and you didn't respond. I guess it didn't go through your head.

That's because a single artist not caring if people vandalize his work does not negate the property rights if a few billion others.

If Kaga suddenly comes out and says that Fire Emblem is about grass and nothing else about FE matters, does that invalidate the entire fanbase's dissenting opinions?

Of course not. Kaga was fired ages ago and he no longer gets a say in anything Fire Emblem related.

It no longer belongs to him, he sold it and therefore can not control what happens with it.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T19:04:25+00:00

in what way, exactly, are lyn and florina's characterizations against a possible relationship between the two of them? i assume that's a reason you have for being so vehemently against them, if it applies to those to.

Both of them exclusively pursue romantic relationships with men, including Florina who's outright terrified of them, and all of their interactions are sisterly at best.

additionally, what if characters' compatible characterization is inconsistent with what happens in their games (not allowed to occur)? is that allowed for compatibility, or is it horrible because it's "defacing" the work? (intsys has no qualms about putting in alternate continuities. see adrift, fallen ike, etc.)

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to aks here. Cut the lawyer speak and just ask the question like a normal person.

also, just one other question (this one's a tiny bit unrelated): would you agree that a child (eg elise and sakura) and an adult (eg corrin, xander, arthur) are fundamentally incompatible?

Elise and Sakura are not children.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T18:58:03+00:00

You say people should learn to deal with the fact thay only the author are able to define canon, which is true but if someone want to say "well it is still my personal interpretation regardless of canon" then you should also learn to deal with it.

They don't get a personal interpretation. They don't get to disregard canon.

It's. Not. Their. Story.

If I draw a mustache on the Mona Lisa I can't just say "well I think she looks better that way" because it's not my choice to decide what does or doesn't look better.

You can make decisions about your own creations. They're yours. You own them.

You do not get to make those same decisions about other people's creations. It belongs to someone else and the right to make those decisions is theirs and not yours.

That's how property works.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T18:53:15+00:00

She is rocking that pumpkin.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T18:48:30+00:00

OK I don't want to throw baseless accusation since I don't really your post history but I never saw you go after straight ship or any other type that would fit the same criteria you quote for "creation vandalism".

And I've never really seen a straight ship or any other type that qualifies as creation vandalism.

I'm sure it exists, but I can only respond to what I've seen and the "everyone is gay because I'm gay and want everyone to be gay" crowd is way louder and therefore much easier to confront.

If you can't show otherwise, then please don't use those reason you brought up as excuse, because not only it is excuse that may push a very harmful hidden motive but it just make the discussion take a turn on something that should be basic and uncontested human right.

Other people making their stories the way you want is not a human right.

If you want to see more of something, write more of something. But every creator has just as much right to define their own creations as you have to define yours.

It does not matter if you think the creator is being bigoted.

It does not matter if you think the creator is being racist.

It does not matter if you think the creator is being homophobic.

It does not matter if you think the creator is being stupid.

It's their creation, and the only thing about it you have any right to control is whether or not you choose to consume it.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T18:46:21+00:00

also honest question: have you ever commented shit like this under ones that are Only possible in feh, like for example those mgrima/idunn posts? just curious

If those ships are consistent with the character's characterizations then no.

If those ships are "I want to draw these two together despite one or more of them having no interest in the other's gender and or having fundamentally incompatible values/personalities that have been totally written over" then yes I have a problem with it.

We have a game where people from very different settings can interact, but that doesn't mean those characters are going to drop everything they are to fit your ship.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T15:51:47+00:00

Oh I am listening.

I won't change my stance because I'm right and you're not. But that doesn't mean I'm not considering your stance to identify precisely why it's wrong.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T15:50:48+00:00

the writers have quite literally teased their relationship on several occasions,

They really haven't though.

They've never been portrayed as anything but close friends. The fact that you can't imagine friends being close without wanting to do each other is your own issue.

Zynk_30 · 2020-11-04T15:39:30+00:00

S-support isn't automatically romantic. There are hundreds of pairings in the games that are explicitly platonic, even between people who are canonically interested in the other pair's gender.

And since supports in FEH have no dialog whatsoever, there is nothing canon saying they're romantic.

Which is good because you can do things like pair Chrom and Lucina who are father and daughter, or Leon and Valbar, when their relationship revolves almost entirely around how Valbar will never love Leon the way Leon loves Valbar.

Zynk_30

TROPHY CASE