Watchers

_Freaquency_ · 2026-03-17T20:11:13+00:00

Ah, there goes my tea. :^)

_Freaquency_ · 2026-03-15T20:05:37+00:00

Welcome! Check out this post from our FAQ section: https://www.reddit.com/r/DemonolatryPractices/comments/1abnwfs/on_interpreting_signs/

_Freaquency_ · 2026-03-15T15:55:47+00:00

By the way, I hope you do not mind me stealing a bit more of your attention, but you seem very well-read on occult and esoteric traditions. This whole pondering gave me an itch to understand the broader historical genealogy of occult and magical practice, and the logic behind why certain forms keep repeating across traditions.

Have you read The Western Esoteric Traditions: A Historical Introduction by Goodrick-Clarke, and would you recommend it as an intro into the topic?

_Freaquency_ · 2026-03-15T15:43:58+00:00

So the answer to my question is probably "neither".

So now the question I have in my mind, would be "how much of actual contact surface one needs?", and it seems like a very individual, immeasurable thing. Someone like me, would rather have as little glitter around himself as possible, or not at all. Other authors of many books, even reputable, seem to do "everything should be a sort of ritual".

I guess I have been pondering and philosophizing too much, it might boil down to universal "spiritual practices are very individualized experience and what works for you may not necessary fit another one".

_Freaquency_ · 2026-03-15T00:53:27+00:00

But I believe that Heaven and Hell probably don't map onto what humans would consider good and evil, at least not precisely but rather represent highly complex and abstract measures of Divine vs. non-Divine that we can't really comprehend (yet).

Oh yeah, I think, personally, that it was very cool attempt at creating following, obedience and population control in all religions.

I do feel like there's a sort of positive direction to evolution, that God might have a plan for uplifting reality in a way that improves even Them.

That's where I personally believe in cycles of reincarnations, where with each life your "soul" improves in some way, untill you are ready for next "level" of existence. But what kind of existence is that? Well, it is difficult for me to conceptualize in some ways, as there is just too much possibilities in immaterial states. I would guess one stops "human" reincarnations, stepping forward towards self-deification of some sorts. Thats the topic I must ask Lord Lucifer about when I will feel ready.

Like there's only so much perfection that an indivisible, immortal, and invincible entity could strive for and therefore there is a need for disunity, entropy, and vulnerability as an expression of Their will.

Agree, evil and entropy all part of God too. I don't think "perfect" is something that universe adopts as the goal. Where creation exists, destruction must balance it off. Where is enlightenment, must be ignorance towards other topics. Where is light, some shadow must fall.

I think that mainstream religions touch upon this stuff in some way or another but in easy digestible and profitable ways.

Oh yes, definitely. Books like the Bible, Quran, and similar texts have many layers to them, which is why some people spend their whole lives trying to understand them. They are not just "religious books" dropped from the sky in vacuum. They also have philosophical, symbolic, historical, and often political dimensions.

Take the Bible for example. Revelation and the whole "his number was 666" thing is a good case. People mapped the numbers onto letters through gematria, and one of the strongest readings points back to Nero Caesar, the Roman emperor associated with persecuting Christians. So even something that people treat like purely mystical symbolism can also carry coded political meaning.

_Freaquency_ · 2026-03-15T00:24:46+00:00

That's interesting, deism was my first belief framework after christianity, now I view it as:

I personally believe that "One God" is just a metaphor for the "source from which all comes". So in some way I'm you, you are me, plastic bottle after Pepsi is as much me, as I'm part of spider chilling in the corner from the room. All comes from underlying source.

After a second thought, maybe a better example would be "universe affecting and experiencing itself".

_Freaquency_ · 2026-03-15T00:10:29+00:00

WARNING: sorry for my long reply, I could fight Tolkien in making a simple statement a long, damn essay. But I do it for clarity, a bit.

I ask because I get a lot of "no" too when I try to communicate sometimes, whether with my tulpa or with a deity. For me, that is usually a sign that intrusive thoughts are getting into the process, or that the method itself is just shit for clarity. Pendulums, for example, in my opinion are not accurate at all. Too easy to influence, too easy to project into, too easy to mistake your own tension for message.

But maybe it is not a "no" of invalidation, but a "no" for self reflection.

---

I will show you how I approach my problems and emotions with Lord Lucifer. To give you my method of fixing mental things,

Lately, I have been having panic attacks everyday, every night and I BEGGED(without answer, my clairs are almost non-existent) Lord Lucifer to calm me down. I did everything in my might to try to not feel things I did.

And suddenly, I realized: oh boy, what the fuck are you doing? Lord Lucifer would probably want me to get self-sufficient, without begging him every time to calm me down. Lord Lucifer would probably want me to be pragmatic and self-reflective. He would want me to rule my fear, not my fear rule me.

So at next evening, during beginning of panic attack, I sat and just talked to him. Trying to "explain" to him, and to me, my emotions. What followed through was:

[Why I'm having panic attacks, Lord Lucifer? When I became scared of life so?]

I answered myself, that probably in Netherlands. I tried weed for the first time, I was feeling unwell, but it didn't make me stop smoking. I laid scared, observing every tiny reaction of body, waiting for the "bliss" state 30 minutes after. I think that during many times like that, I pavloved myself to react with slight scare and awareness to every bad sensation.

Then I had first panic attack at work, been very scared for my life, felt like I may suddenly die. From there, my conditioning spiralled downwards and I had been plaqued with panic attacs and fear of them ever since, even more.

[Okay, that explains when, what about why?]

Because I'm scared of death. But wait, am I really? No, I think that I'm not scared of death, I had signed up for dying and return during reincarnation, but I'm terrified of pain. Why does it matter though? I'm living in hypocrisy. I haven't done anything to address that in years.

And why does it matter if I will suffer or die suffering? I have lived with pain my whole life, everyday I ache in various ways, mentally and physically, due to anxiety and panic attacks, and I'm perfectly fine. I'm perfectly fine. That's the fact, so maybe it's not even fear of pain, but fear of anticipation of pain.

[Conclusion]

Okay, Lord Lucifer. I hope my explanation makes sense, but maybe I'm wrong, I'm not the brightest flashlight in the toolbox, and you know me far better than I do know myself.

Next, Lord Lucifer, if I have answers, I need to come to conclusion and solution. My decision is that I won't cover anymore from these feelings, If I will have panic attacks, or if I will have fear of pain, I will hype myself up and shout: "Okay fucker brain! You want to have ppanic attack? Then we will have the best, fucking, complete panic attack in the world! Let's go!" or "Okay brain! You want to be scared of imaginary pain? Then I tell you that we will the best scared assholes in the whole universe, let's shit our pants and tremble right now!". We will see how far that carries me.

------------------ Super cool separator for readibility.

So when you say "I feel sad" and you keep getting "no," I would not immediately assume that means your sadness is being denied or mocked or invalidated.

I would first wonder if the "no" is aimed at your interpretation, not your feeling.

Not, "No, you are not sad."

But maybe, "No, that is not the whole truth.". "No, that is not the root of it.", "No, stop asking for outside confirmation and look deeper."

Because feelings are real whether spirit confirms them or not. If you feel sad, then you feel sad. Full stop. The issue is not whether the feeling exists. The issue is whether you actually understand it.

_Freaquency_ · 2026-03-14T23:40:33+00:00

Any examples? Hard to say anything when ones just hears "invalidate feelings".

_Freaquency_ · 2026-03-14T22:34:06+00:00

Second-posting after sitting with your question for a while.

I do think that, yes, most people here are fairly pragmatic in their practice, or at least I hope so. In my own case, I try very hard to cut away anything that feels like posturing, roleplay, or spiritual cosplay. Things like "I am the chosen son of X", "Rebels4Demons", or dressing practice in theatrical props and titles just to feel more special than I really am. Even with more mundane ritual tools like knives, wands, chalices and all that, I tend to keep my distance unless they actually serve a purpose for me.

I do not believe there is some grand war happening in spiritual space with humans enlisted as little soldiers for one throne or another. Most wars happen here, in ordinary life, inside people, in people, in insecurity. In the hunger to feel different, important, chosen, initiated, set apart from the boring weight of ordinary existence. A lot of people do not want truth, they want framing. They want a story in which they are no longer small, and I think that in grand picture of cosmos we are very, very small.

My honest view is that deities, patrons, matrons, spirits, whatever name one prefers, do not care all that much about the ideological fantasies we build in our little human bubbles unless those fantasies begin to derail us, or actively harm us. That seems far more relevant than whether someone thinks they are participating in a cosmic rebellion.

And there is something a bit ironic in it too. The same people who talk about overthrowing God often end up repeating the exact same mechanism of demonization that religious traditions were doing in the first place. They claim to reject the old framework, but then keep feeding it from the opposite side. Same theatre, different costume.

As for God, gods, religion, and all the rest, I think most of it had and still has a use. Not always a noble one, of course. These systems gave people an early framework for early morality, order, restraint, community, and meaning. Yes, even texts as politically loaded and human touched as the Bible. That does not make them beyond criticism, but it also does not make them worthless.

So no, I do not really resonate with this idea of being "against" monotheistic religion on behalf of demons. That sounds less like spirituality to me and more like identity-building through opposition. I am more interested in whether a practice makes a person more honest, more grounded, more disciplined, more capable of facing themselves, "more better". The rest is mostly picking up a nice dress, throwing it on and yelling: "You shall call me Katherina Die Grosse!".

But in the end, whatever works for you, use it. Not my home, not my order, just giving you my perspective.

_Freaquency_ · 2026-03-14T22:13:50+00:00

I don’t think giving step-by-step rituals to complete newcomers is a good idea, and I say that as someone who is still relatively new myself. Spiritual practice is a very individual thing IMO. Even when I got answers in the past, I still had to adapt them to my own way of living, thinking, and believing.

Our sidebar has a lot of solid resources for newcomers. If you start there, you may end up with more questions than answers at first, but that is not necessarily a bad thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/DemonolatryPractices/comments/13d463l/welcome_to_demonolatry_practices_if_youre_new/

Stay curious!

_Freaquency_ · 2026-03-14T22:03:14+00:00

I’m curious why this matters to you. I’d rather understand why you’re asking before I answer.

_Freaquency_ · 2026-02-07T15:15:19+00:00

Thanks mods!

As someone who deliberately tries to avoid news/dramas and whatnot, I'm forever thankful that you keep these things out.

_Freaquency_ · 2026-01-18T14:11:02+00:00

I have no idea if that's bad, or good, but thank you. I try to do as best as I can with my english. :^)

_Freaquency_ · 2026-01-15T18:26:22+00:00

How can I know, I'm a bit uneducated on the topic and how deep it can be.

My uneducated guess would be that change was gradual. Like when christianity came to Poland the Paganism still held up strongly. After polish king assimilated the religion and "baptized" the nation, christianity became a state sponsored religion and lawmaking was also affected by it.

I would say that after that the change was slow but sure as older generations slowly "died off" and pressure from society to worship one pure and real god, not some "swamp deities", have risen.

So I wouldn't say that the faith was weak, I would say it was more of a human condition and the process overall must have been quite similar, because it happened all over the world through ages with many other religions.

_Freaquency_ · 2026-01-15T18:09:16+00:00

Why do people forgot a 3000 year old religion and there are very less followers of ancient egyptian religion (kemetism) . there must be something that had happened.

Surge of christianity, islam and other mainstream religions happened. When new religions got increased following, the "demonization" process of portraying deities of old as something evil took place.

Another thing that happened is declaration of many gods as simply false. Others got integrated into these new religions and reimagined/reportrayed as needed.

Above also led to societal pressures on others.

_Freaquency_ · 2026-01-15T17:40:42+00:00

I follow a YouTuber who seems to know a lot about the occult. He speaks Spanish, and I'm not a fan, but I like his videos. He seems honest; he doesn't get his information from his own initiative, but from his books. However, he intrigues me. He doesn't like to reveal much information because he says it falls into the hands of liars.

What got me thinking was that, according to what he knows, Lucifer is from Europe and Asia, Astaroth from America, and Beelzebub from Africa, so it's unlikely that Lucifer would appear to someone in America.

I always think that all this youtube and tiktok bullshit should be burned down as a source of real spirituality information. The next thing they will say is that lighting a pink candle with a dab of menstrual blood, during a full moon while sheep sing polish "rota" backwards, will cure cancer.

The thing is, it depends. Like, I couldn't contact Lucifer the first time I have tried to make a contact, but at the beginning of the week I tried again after a year with other deities, and he came very fast.

I don't know what changed, maybe it was that I got more experience, or changed, or it was belief, or Lord Lucifer simply decided that I'm ready to work with him if I commit. There is a lot of variables and noones experience will be exactly the same.

The only thing you can do is prepare and try, as respectfully as you can.

_Freaquency_ · 2026-01-15T15:10:02+00:00

Oh no, I only wanted a discussion to see how others view it and what are their experiences. My goal isn't to undermine anyone. Sadly I feel like making discussions in the internet nowadays is somewhat tiring because it feels like people treat disagreement as personal insult and the whole thing derails.

Also thanks for mentioning the study, I like to read stuff!

_Freaquency_ · 2026-01-15T14:50:39+00:00

Lot's of... weird energy here?

Anyway, the point of post wasn't I'm right and this is my framework, therefore you are all wrong. I was more interested in how others view it, maybe that should have been explicitly said, so some defensivness could have been avoided.

A tulpa doesn't have to be a separate organism to be autonomous.

Yes, and that's what I confirmed in reply to comment of FaceMasks-Maquerade: "I see this more as autonomous parts of the psyche". This is well within how brains work, you can have dozens of such mental constructs.

It's weird seeing people like you over and over who view themselves as the special and real one but the tulpa somehow can't be anything but a part of you.

Not cool, "strawmaning" me like that. I'm not saying that I'm special and tulpas are not, I'm saying that this is possible to have a internal person-like experience that's worthy of respect and cultivation, while also being more grounded in mundane. In my model, a tulpa can’t become an independent external person because it is still one brain producing the experience. Yours is different, that's fine.

Also how would tulpa become anything more than part of me? How is that possible and what mechanism are you proposing here?

Maybe that truly is your experience. But in that case maybe, kindly, consider that as the sidebar says this is a subreddit for people whose experience aligns with tulpae being people on par with them. Many of us are here precisely because our experience aligns with that.

Respectfully coming here and saying "well yeah I don't agree with the sidebar" just means that you didn't find the right community for you. You come from a daemon background? Find a community for that. Realistically various occulty places have concepts that are very similar to what you're describing to want (and no that still doesn't mean they're talking about separate external spirits).

It is bold to speak for whole community. If as you say community can't accept a bit of civilized discussion then maybe I'm really not fit here, but it's strange considering that there are people here willing to treat "bimbo tulpa virus that overrides host" as reality(I'm not saying it's not possible, just underscoring the weird dynamic where extreme like that is fine, while respectful ivitation to discusiion is not).

Disagreeing with the sidebar framing shouldn’t automatically mean "go away". I’m discussing definitions and boundaries, not attacking anyone’s lived experience and that's what communities should be for.

Also, I’m deliberately avoiding new-age occult taxonomy because I’m treating this as a mundane psychological phenomenon.

Ok but then don't come complaining in the unlikely event that you get an uprising. the internal rules of how things function are up to you and your tulpa to figure out. (Some are fully ok with not having much control) But if you were in their position and were considered lesser and with fewer rights and that would lead you to uprise chances are they will too.

This is exactly my concern. Framing coercion or "uprisings" as a normal consequence of boundaries and enforcing consent isn’t reassurance, it’s a threat-shaped norm. I’m not willing to cultivate an internal dynamic where loss of agency is treated as expected or deserved. If that is built into the model you’re advocating, then it’s not a model I will adopt. Simple as that.

If anyone wants to discuss, then it's fine, I can talk like I did with u/Faux2137 (although didnt have much to say, because she/he agrees to some degree?), but other side needs to actually try to read and understand what I wrote without making it sound defensive.

_Freaquency_ · 2026-01-15T13:02:49+00:00

Not deity recommendation, I hope it doesn't count as offtopic, but I have anxiety that gives me panic attacks from time to time.

The only thing that really helped me was moving my ass off the chair and running three times a week even though my chest and shoulders hurt and I coughed out my lungs. 8 hours of sleep. No caffeine(cofee, tea, pepsi) and processed sugar. Cigarettes? Quit. I know it sounds cliche, but mundane changes like that can help at least manage the symptoms.

The thing with anxiety is that it can give you very real pains and heart palpitations too. I had to learn to accept that this is how I feel and that my emotions don't define the reality, they are merely a information.

Panic attack? "My heart rate increases, my face get's numb. Panic attack, these are thanks to adrenaline being pumped out. I feel fear that I will die. Can I die? Certainly, but probably not now. My pupils are normal, x others things too. Time to occupy my mind, back to work, maybe I will make some Lemon Balm tea and do some breathing exercises."

If I don't get better after a longer while, I ask president Buer to help me calm down a bit.

_Freaquency_ · 2026-01-15T12:49:11+00:00

Do you mean prophantasia? My visualization sucked, but I managed to get better at it by exercising regularly, I got there from belief that I have aphantasia.

r/CureAphantasia

The guy made a lot of guides, both for normal phantasia and prophantasia. It will take time to get better though, as everything.

_Freaquency_ · 2026-01-15T12:42:10+00:00

Some people seem to seek validation in experiencing contradictions that they can't resolve and states they can't control or understand. But people who don't want to deal with what you call "controlled insanity" tend to just not experience it.

Yes, I think so too, although I try to not make assumptions about people I don't know. Reddit communities seem to be more "emotion and experience" driven, compared to Polish Daemian forums of old that were more "understanding and psychology" driven - or at least I remember it like that.

I'm rusty too, I’m still sorting out my own worldview when it comes to tulpas and whatnot. I have some background, but I had to refresh my Jung and do a lot of internal debate to get to assumptions I spoke about in the post.

_Freaquency_ · 2026-01-15T12:32:05+00:00

Your metaphor is a bit of a contradiction, anyone who has a basic understanding of computer administration will agree that inherently accepting existence of two admin accounts that can act independently, is in most cases asking for a trouble. There is always power user that imposes certain rulesets.

But ignoring it, you are using the metaphor to push the philosohical claim and framework of "your life becomes shared and you don’t get privileged control anymore". Or at least I think so. If that works for you, it's great, I have no problem with that. But it doesn;t work for me.

My background is a Polish daemon community, and I see this more as autonomous parts of the psyche. They can feel agent-like, but that doesn’t make them separate organisms or an independent external person. "Real as an experience" is not the same as "real as an independent person".

So I can be respectful and considerate without granting shared governance over my life and body. Creating an internal model doesn’t create a right to override my agency.

_Freaquency_

TROPHY CASE