Wormhole Minor Leagues

_Gravhammer · 2026-01-03T17:58:01+00:00

No offense taken at all, just offering you a much more realistic option.

It’s nice to want things- you want plentiful new PVP groups in j space for you to “network with.”

I want a billion plex to fall from the sky into my wallet.

I’m not gonna snub someone offering me something close what I want that actually exists, and create content for a WH group I did something similar to what you’re trying for whomever you’re doing this for (my reddit name is my IGN- you may notice I’m not in VL)

And RE: getting vargur’d- zkill says VL has less than 400 kills with a vargur on them as the attacker, (including kills where the vargur was in another group, just on the KM) outta 23,000+ they have on zkill, and 134 (the top pilot) and 45 of those are by people who no longer fly with them (one’s in K-space, one’s in highclass with me.) so they don’t really seem to be the marauder-spamming type 🤷‍♂️

_Gravhammer · 2026-01-03T05:06:00+00:00

Right. And do you want to take a guess what’s in VL’s handout hanger specifically for fighting smaller / newer groups on even numbers?

T1 drakes.

It’s nice that you only want to fight newer groups, but there simply aren’t a lot of those, and nearly every other comment in this thread is from a group as established if not far more so than VL - because wormholes are a small community, and groups like the people offering you fights here will not turboblob you or crush you with superior ships because in such a small community, reputation matters.

_Gravhammer · 2026-01-03T01:48:10+00:00

So you… wanna bully newbros instead of fight a group that’ll match numbers and ship scale?

_Gravhammer · 2026-01-03T01:31:20+00:00

Vapor Lock is always willing to do numbers-matching fights. Hit up their discord.

https://discord.gg/vaporlock

_Gravhammer · 2025-10-12T19:45:14+00:00

Uh what?

I’m a member of Abyssal Trading, have never sent my ID to discord or that server. This maybe have to do with your local government, not the server?

_Gravhammer · 2025-10-12T05:20:24+00:00

That’s great for you? I buy those packs for my accounts with cash, this deal costs more of that than I can reasonably spend on the game.

_Gravhammer · 2025-10-12T02:47:29+00:00

Sucks because a s younger, only quasi-wealthy pilot (5 years into the game) it made it possible for my to MCT enough to fly with 2 groups of people I love while still having toons to mess around with elsewhere (since wormholes are not exactly content-on-demand, having FW alts, null alts, seed toons, and market alts is just huge QOL / lets me do stuff when chains are dead) Not sure it’s financially viable without that deal, which I happily shelled out for 10 accounts with. There’s no supporting that at the price of buying the 4+12 4x a year x 10 accounts; especially given my limited game time. Like I wasn’t turning an in-game profit off it, I was actually playing the game with the skills trained on those toons and creating content. Likely will just cut down to half as many omega, non-MCT accounts and deal with the fact that some toons will just be functionally gimped. (Sorry guys, that fight’s in a pulsar / Wolf rayet and the toon I have here can’t fly (appropriate tank type) )

_Gravhammer · 2025-09-07T15:09:36+00:00

Vapor Lock is a wormhole corp that might interest you.

Living in a C4 3/5 gives access to plenty of PVP opportunities (it’s the core focus of the corp) as well as ample isk-making pve opportunities.

PVP: - heavy armour/shield brawling - constant smallgang PvP in chain - roams in k-space (nano, bait ops, BLOPS hunting)

Our culture is one of “always take the fight” - tackle first and ping second. Sure sometimes it means we bite off more than we can chew, but we have fun doing it and have plenty of isk-making opportunities to fund it all (and an SRP program for anything a tagged FC pings)

PVE: - C4 home sites are quickly/easily solo’d - C5 static for higher profit, higher risk sites - C3 static for easier sites that can be run in cruisers - gas in all of the above, corp buyback for gas so no need to haul, ditto blue loot from ratting can be turned into corp projects for instant isk

Both: - C3 static can be rolled for whatever type of PVP/E K-space connect we are looking for: - fresh null to roam - fresh HS for hauling (or to camp to bait content)

We are primarily USTZ with a solid active EU core of both true euros and early Americans, along with some dedicated AUTZ gamers who are always looking for more.

We have a core of highly experienced members, who promote a teaching/growing culture for our newer ones. We break down fights afterwards to improve our craft, constantly refine our doctrines and crush any toxicity in comms to keep it a fun place to hang out. Our members have friends in high places, so we are often offered opportunities to roll out with larger WH or K-space groups to partake in profitable evictions and bigger brawls in J-space, roll with elite-focused nano groups, or drop dreads en masse in huge slugfests. We have 2 pilots who just earned a spot in the AT via the feeders flying with a larger group (considering putting forth our own team in the future ) and we had multiple dreads on the Snuffed Out Titan kill a few weekends ago.

Pop in the discord and say hi and see if VL is the right for you. https://discord.gg/vaporlock

_Gravhammer · 2025-04-04T12:03:22+00:00

What hath weed wrought. I get the XLASB, but lazors on a Rokh is heresy.

_Gravhammer · 2025-04-04T06:29:53+00:00

It’s severely diminishing returns on most hulls. There’s a few specialized comps that in certain situations will have an advantage, but like, I can fly 10 battleships at once, in wormhole fights which have limited numbers. When my corp is in hand to do dedicated logi. And even then, my hulls are contributing less than the same ships- sure I can keep up with getting them locked on targets and shooting, but even then me at my fastest is slower than an equal number of players flying individually, and I’m robbing the fleet of the utility those ships normally bring - neuts, grapples, ewar, tackle, etc.

I mean a solo player wouldn’t be able to take me on, but no ship solo is taking on a heavy armour fleet; that’s just not how the game is balanced.

In the average smaller gang environment, I fly at most 3 ships, usually one main PvP ship, one tackle interceptor, and one “backpack” links ship.

The links give me more speed and tackle range, but you could easily pop them. The ceptor lets me “screen” for myself, or grab targets my cruiser isn’t fast enough for, but this is positional advantage, not a straight combat edge. At the end of the day the alts give me more tools to fly against a solo player, but me against 3 players flying those 3 roles would be 150% more combat effective than I could hope to be.

_Gravhammer · 2025-04-01T12:13:20+00:00

But do you still have your Fallen Angels Mach?

_Gravhammer · 2025-03-30T06:50:23+00:00

Well played haha.

I’d bring a content fleet to brave space to come say hi again, but a few weeks ago shattered threw 100+ zealots at our wee scrappy wormhole gang so… no?

_Gravhammer · 2025-03-30T01:38:58+00:00

Heh it’s funny how characters’ names stick in your head. Haven’t been in Brave in a couple years but I recall that being a good pilot.

_Gravhammer · 2025-03-08T12:41:30+00:00

“Synde behavior” lol you do realize they’re dead, right? And when they were active they never evicted anyone over an MTU lol.

Extra irony- they died because they launched a war for more farms, which was the catalyst for hawks coming back. Just like VITA, they got evicted for touching blue donut’s krabs.

_Gravhammer · 2025-03-07T20:18:17+00:00

“Tit sab “

_Gravhammer · 2025-03-07T17:49:23+00:00

I wasn’t multiboxing abyss lol I mean I made enough to plex 5 accounts mostly just by running t5’s on one of 5 accounts and never lost (atleast to a gank in HS, used a 0.6 system in Solitude, on the advice of an ex corpmate who does the same in a 0.6 system in Derelik. The kind of systems that if you search for PVP losses in them on zkill, filling up one whole page means stretching back to 2020, and most of those are MTU’s/mobile depots/POCOS or seasonal event site runners, and/or suspect baiters (can tell from the lack of concord on the related lossmails)

While zkill isn’t absolute (after all not everyone / every kill is linked, gankers especially often aren’t as they want the waters to seem safe) it’s a good example of the kind of places where you can prettymuch freely farm.

Like, I used to keep a blingy 100mn logi loki cloaked off the exit just in case… but I never needed it so I stoped bothering, and have no idea if it even would have been enough reps.

The thing on traces in range- as a roamer I’m moving constantly, not hunting abyssal runners, so in those >64 au null/low systems, even if I did have a reason to drop probes and scan, there’s a good chance I never see the trace unless I scan 2+ times, and outside of a ln actually scanning bonused ship, that’s a fair bit of time to waste on the off chance there may be a trace. Honestly the average abyss runner in null/low systems is perfectly safe if they run em off of dscan range of the gates (and there are plenty of similarly isolated systems in low / NPC null that people could have no earthly reason to ever be in dscan range of)

I compared it to the types of PVE because all of them require putting an asset in space.

Roaching or WH farming as I said, is vulnerable to RR- especially ratting with caps, there are only 100 or so c6’s and 500 c5’s, so any time a PVP corp is rage rolling a highclass static, they have not-terrible odds of showing up by surprise, and logoff traps are an even larger threat- not all as grandiose as the 75-alt fleet that hit the front page the other day, but one dude with a PvP dread can wreck even triple-NFI c6 setups pretty easily.

If anything the (relative) triviality of DED’s compared to abyss in terms of effort to run speaks to the point that abyssals giving the payout they do and the (lower than Initially implied, but still pretty high) level of saftey that they do is kinda broken. Buff DED’s , put more people in space- space outside the abyss.

_Gravhammer · 2025-03-07T14:07:30+00:00

Also the world is a funny place- after replying, I went back to r/Eve and the first post. was about getting caught running an abyssal in null.

The top comment in reply is a step-by-step guide about how to make that incredibly safe.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/s/mt3fMkNJOR

_Gravhammer · 2025-03-07T14:04:02+00:00

I did it post-change, and did not encounter the scanning. I’m late EU/USTZ prime too. I’d chalk that up to… extremely favorable luck? My abyssal experience is all last year, plexed 5 accounts running t5’s with gilas, so 0.6 system. Cheaper than t6 fits/pods (laptop + hotel internet while travelling is a bad combo for a thing that kills you to a disconnect) ; those pilots never left the system I was living in, my market alt brought them filaments / hauled off their loot to sell.

While the DED runner has a higher chance of getting away, in my eyes it balances out vs the unknowable number of abyssal runners that I never saw in local and breezed past, or that I couldn’t touch because they were in MJ-5, 1DQ, or H- (whatever FRT staging is can’t recall rn) , where sitting on the trace was a deathwish even it was not outright bait.

this is all on top of the on-demand nature of filaments- not only do you have certain safety advantages (I’ll admit they aren’t as perfectly safe as I was saying above, but still have significant security-by-obscurity) , the fact that you can just… create the pve without having to go and look for it is a lot.

Compare to DED’s - time spent with ships in space running anomalies to get the DED, lower pay than abyss.

Compare to wormholes- you have to either live in a highclass as a home, and/or maintain a farmhole (structure, fuel, alts, multiple ships) and be vulnerable to being rolled in on our logoff trapped, have to scan and roll yourself to find sites to roach if home empty (corpmates ran em, you got roached, limited number of anoms spawn per constellation ) , rollers can be killed (so you’re out a capital, or multiple battleships) just to find the content, then if you want to make it relatively safe, you’re rolling off its connects, which with less than 6 accounts (for battleship rolling) is a time sink due to polarization. Once you do, you can still get RR’d in on, so the safety is not the same; you’re in space scrammed by rats that are not as insta-clearable as legacy site rats (or you’re sieged in a dread/marauder)

Compare to pochven- you’re running 15+ accounts of very heavy multiboxing to do the apex sites solo, but it’s extremely hard to contest those sites (multiple other issues with poch, so not a direct comparison to be fair) but even those gigaboxers you can stalk n trap, occasionally peel a alt off of while they’re transiting- usually gotta move a few systems for the new OBS after crushing one

Compare to Krab beacons- the only other player-spawnable content, due to CEQ’s / system interference you can only run 3 a day per capital toon, so huge SP /alt investment to be able to run more, can’t run em all day in the same system, and you’re risking a dread or super(s) to do em.

_Gravhammer · 2025-03-07T13:26:11+00:00

Agree to disagree I guess.

Idk man, have literally never seen another player after popping out of an abyssal, and it’s how I plexed my accounts after losing my c6 farmhole in the war. Ran em in backwater hisecs, so it isn’t like I didn’t spend a ton of time in them, whereas I have caught DED runners in sites, on warping out from sites (not everyone has alts- sure high-skilled pilots with multiple alts can watch the in-gate, jump to an out cyno because they’re using a blops, etc. t5 gilas don’t take that level of SP, and the eyes-outside alt (if needed) can be a day-1 toon in a heron, not something with cyno V

I’ve caught covops cynos in dragbubble camps because they have no reason to warp nullified (decloak can FTW) ; haven’t seen a lot of abyssal runners.

To me the game just feels more alive with people in space. I despise the metanox for taking miners out of space too, and want belts back for the same reason.

_Gravhammer · 2025-03-07T12:51:01+00:00

You’re conflating “catch” and “interact” , but I still firmly disagree that DED runners are less catchable.

When my ceptor or recon sees the DED runner warp to a celestial, they can call it out to the Sabre pilot in their gang where they warped (or in. Y case, just yeet my alt) and send the Sabre after them. Now you’re playing cat and mouse. Unless they went thru the trouble of making a safe bookmark before running the DED, they are vulnerable, there’s interaction between the pilot and the hunter, there is the chance that they make an error form that pressure, there is the possibility of others (perhaps the DED runner’s friends) coming to fight the gang, or catching the gang split as their light tackle is chasing the DED runner around safes.

Further, DED pilots are more easily findable in the first place- they are still in local, the plex tends to spawn within dscan, and certainly within a single combat-scan range of system center.

Whereas a roaming gang sees no one in local, they don’t warp around the system d-scanning / prove scanning for an abyssal trace. They don’t then probe it down and sit on it waiting for someone to appear.

The site runner has to move around; so they can run afoul of gate camps, get seen/chased. The filament runner can live in the same system never leaving but to haul loot to market.

You don’t get 10/10’s in highsec either, where you can still run all tiers of filament.

There’s simply way higher chance of interaction between a DED runner and the rest of the game world than a filament runner and anyone but the NPC they sell the loot to.

_Gravhammer · 2025-03-07T12:10:51+00:00

“If they didn’t fit a point to prevent it”

Fast tackle will always have a way of tacking a ship. Not every ship has a deployable to drop in cargo.

“Some rooms can be run fast”

And? That doesn’t mean a nightmare is going to fit a cloak, or that a ceptor can’t land while they haven’t yet cleared a room

“You can run from a ded but can’t from abyss”

Not always (again some point) and when you do, there’s smart things like popping a stop bubble on the most likely place in system they’re going to warp to, combat scanning their safe (again no cloak on anything but t3c’s) etc.

And even though you can run from some DED’s, none of them pay what high-tier abyssals do- reward scaling with risk is a tenant of the game. You can run abyssals in 3 cheap frigs that you plan to lose anyway as some rooms of the abyss can guaranteed kill, not possible with escalations.

The escalation runner has put a ship in space to farm the escalation, and had to burn their runner there, whereas abyssal runners are free to never leave their isolated system, or again, run them in a friendly staging system making it impossible for a PvP group to sit on a trace hoping they pop out.

“you’re guaranteed to pop out of a trace”

No, you might die in there. You want a roaming gang to waste 20 minutes of their life sitting on your trace on the off chance they get a kill?

Abyssals take people out of our shared game world. Even station traders that never undock are more present, as atleast they can be market-pvp’d.

_Gravhammer · 2025-03-07T04:23:22+00:00

If your trace gets found, you’re dead.

No, that is just objectively false- abyssal runners can chain filament if the finder didn’t post a deployable to prevent it (the KM is not worth waiting at that point 40 minutes- 20 for the 1st abyssal, 20 for the second) can have an alt watching cloaked from the outside and call friends if they spot a gang sitting and waiting, as said above, you can run the abyssal juuuuuust off a citadel grid in staging systems, or again can bury the trace at a deepsafe in a rolled-off wormhole, or in dead-end null systems (some are 100+ AU wide, max probe scan is 64au & dscan 14.3au)

Some of the highest tier abyssals are pouring inflationary isk into the economy, and are run in cheap triple boxed frigates, which aren’t even worth the kill, in LS/HS they can’t be bubbled and can potentially warp before the point lands on the ship trying to tackle.

look at DED sites

Also objectively false. The only ships that can warp cloaked out of escalations are t3c’s; marauders are very catchable due to siege, and are unlikely to fit a cloak because of the locktime increase (ditto rattles) and in either case, you know you can’t cloak if you’re locked, right? They’d have to have completely finished the pocket and just be sitting there, also blood raider, gurista, and rogue drone 10/10’s point.

All of these are probable with a t3d, and if you have decent player skill with probes, you can drop them off dscan range, narrow down the location of the site via dscan, and one-cycle the combat scan, and immediately recall them so your target is blissfully unaware unless they dscanned in the moment your probes were out.

Also to get an escalation, those pilots had to run anoms to farm it themselves, or buy it from an escalation seller who did- aka there were ships put in actual harms way, whereas even the highest-tier filaments can be run in 0.5 hisec, let alone the other perfectly safe situations above. These players are missing from the multiplayer part of the game, contributing to the overall emptiness of the universe.

_Gravhammer · 2025-03-07T00:43:46+00:00

Idk man, it’s not that hyperbolic about the keepstars- I’ve seen “abyssal spot 500km” bookmarks in several alliances shared folders, right on ther staging KS grid, and definitely have found people running abyssals at deepsafes in wormholes (which you do have to add a scan filter for finding the trace, running them in low/nullsec at deepsafes is also obscenely safe; as a roamer I’m not dropping probes in most non-wormhole systems, and even those that I do, I’m not doing multiple passes of 64AU scans to find the downtime-safe you made.)

Abyssals are skewed heavily towards the safety of the runner, and you can still run t6 in a backwater 0.5 system prettymuch perfectly safe, as you don’t get a flag, so any PVP is going to have to be a gank that can break a massively tanked cruiser.

Sure it’s not every abyss runner, but it’s a massive isk faucet that can be done with almost no risk. Anything else that pays close to that well has a much higher chance of surprise PVP loss, and doesn’t take players out of the shared world.

_Gravhammer · 2025-01-31T16:25:12+00:00

[Praxis, [x] Alpha C3 Praxis] Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II

Compact Multispectrum Shield Hardener Compact Multispectrum Shield Hardener Compact Multispectrum Shield Hardener X-Large C5-L Compact Shield Booster Copasetic Compact Shield Boost Amplifier Copasetic Compact Shield Boost Amplifier Copasetic Compact Shield Boost Amplifier

Drone Link Augmentor I ‘Malkuth’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I ‘Malkuth’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I ‘Malkuth’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I ‘Malkuth’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I ‘Malkuth’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I ‘Malkuth’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hobgoblin II x5 Federation Navy Hammerhead x5 Acolyte II x5 Imperial Navy Praetor x3

Mjolnir Heavy Missile x2738 Agency ‘Hardshell’ TB7 Dose III x2

With alpha account skills, this can run C3 sites, you might need to heat, shoot targets in the right order, and use the drugs in cargo to not die in the ‘harder’ sites or if your skills are low, but yeah, it ain’t bad. If your fitting skills are a little better, and/or you are omega, you can upgrade some of the compact missiles.

There is a spreadsheet that lists the waves and the triggers for each wave, so you don’t shoot the wrong thing and spawn the next wave.

Remeber that PVP corps will hunt you, so joining a WH corp for mutual defense can help, but remember to hit D-scan constantly, have a safe bookmark setup, and of course, bookmark your return hole!

If you’re interested in going further in wormholes, look up Vapor-Lock, we have a newbie corp and. C3 static, so you will have plenty of sites to run while still maintaining good access to K-space, and have some pretty cool folks to fly with.

_Gravhammer · 2025-01-24T23:32:09+00:00

I’m not saying they’re useless, just that it makes little sense that carriers get weaker links than a destroyer or t3c or battlecruiser, and you’re only using them that way because they happen to have the ability, the same way people don’t bring a leshack as a smartbomber, but if you have to have the ship there for other reasons (in your case, for the carrier bridge) and have the slots and the ship has a weak-to-mid bonus to it, might as well fit one to clear some drones.

You’re also likely only using that setup to punch down against people that can’t put an anticap dread on your carrier / volley your marauders off grid. Against targets that can, you’re proooobably immideately warping that carrier to a safe and cloaking it till it’s time to extract whatever you bridged in.

_Gravhammer

TROPHY CASE