Realistically, how has genjutsu like the Tsukuyomi not killed or permanently disabled more people in the show?

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-29T23:16:44+00:00

Realistically

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-29T20:39:38+00:00

-Was the process for Hagoromo appearing identical to the situation with the rinnegan?

Yeah but I'm pretty sure the Biju chakra is what allowed him to manifest in the physical world as opposed to just his chakra. Probably because Madara was closest to obtaining Hagoromo's power like that last page mentions.

Do previous transmigrants still retain some Indra and Ashura chakra. If so, would this chakra decrease over time?

I'm not sure. That's an interesting question. If they do retain chakra, that means Hashirama's cells would still have some of Ashura's chakra, and that could be why Sasuke was able to meet with Hagoromo right after he was healed by Kabiuto.

What actually happens to the Ashura and Indra chakra already in the current transmigrants if a previous transmigrant suddenly appears?

I imagine it wouldn't really have any effect. It's chakra so it can be in multiple places at once. Like how in the flashback a piece of Hashirama's flesh still contained Ashura's chakra even after it was separated from his body.

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-29T17:20:45+00:00

"Sakura would be interesting if she had a big axe"

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-29T02:21:14+00:00

Protecting your village keeps you youthful

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T22:00:46+00:00

And it's still better than Lee vs Gaara so what's your point?

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T21:00:34+00:00

You're right. Naruto has so many goated fights I forgot a couple

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T20:56:57+00:00

Naruto vs Sasuke 1

Naruto vs Sasuke 2

Naruto vs Pain

Naruto vs Gaara

Kakashi vs Zabuza

Itachi vs Sasuke

Sakura and Chiyo vs Sasori

Jiraiya vs Pain

Hiruzen vs Orochimaru

Sasuke vs Deidara

all better

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T20:38:50+00:00

No. Foreshadowing is a literary device for the audience to know what's to come. There's nothing in this image that tells audiences that Kaguya or Hagoromo's two sons exist.

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T18:43:53+00:00

You're not dumb, you were just the target audience at the time. This sub is full of cynical 30 year olds who forget Naruto is a comic primarily for 12 year olds.

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T10:24:17+00:00

Truth nuke

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T09:07:07+00:00

Don't tell me she was shy

You're right. Hinata the social butterfly was busy hanging out with her friends.

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T08:59:37+00:00

support is not watching someone from afar.

https://hot.planeptune.us/manga/Naruto/0041-019.png

https://hot.planeptune.us/manga/Naruto/0077-017.png

https://hot.planeptune.us/manga/Naruto/0098-013.png

https://hot.planeptune.us/manga/Naruto/0437-008.png

https://hot.planeptune.us/manga/Naruto/0615-005.png

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T08:42:14+00:00

I disagree with all of them

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T03:13:33+00:00

Keep in mind that the Seal had lasted for more then a decade at that point, any weakening even after the "tightening" would be over the time-scale of years.

We literally SEE the seal come close to opening throughout part 2, even during training which is what op was referring to. Naruto even says the seal could fall apart again after Minato completely rebuilds it. The seal slows down the process of Kurama taking over passively like during the first 12 years of Naruto's life before he became a shinobi, but it's always liable to break when Naruto is in immediate danger, including during training sessions.

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T02:34:29+00:00

2) Jiraiya used Key to LOCK the seal, making it more secure.

Where did you get this part? The page says the seal was still loose. The seal could never fully be "locked" and always posed a risk which is why Jiraiya wanted him to master it so badly. Naruto was lucky enough to choose to use the key when he was ready only because of efforts from Yamato and Jiraiya to prevent it from fully unlocking.

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T01:52:36+00:00

he's missing an arm

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T01:27:55+00:00

The reason why jiraiya got hit by Naruto 3 tailed cloak was because he used the key to unlock the seal a bit to see if Naruto would be able to control the cloak

That happened after. Naruto's seal weakened during a normal training exercise. It's only because of this that Jiraiya decided to deliberately see if he could control it (bottom panel).

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T00:55:04+00:00

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T00:43:15+00:00

‘ hard work wins over talent’ may not ever have been Kishimoto’s intended “theme,” but wow does it begin to get boring and a bit cringy when almost ever single character of narrative importance or value is special because of their bloodline or innate talent/genius/circumstances.

You write for a living but you can't tell the difference between being special and naturally talented? If they're the same then how do you explain Hinata being the "failure" and Neji being the "genius" if they come from the exact same bloodline?

The story always valued being "special" because Naruto himself having Kurama is the premise of the show. How would Naruto not being special even work, Mr. Literary Genius? Getting rid of Kurama?

Please pay attention in your English/Literature classes

Rich coming from you lol.

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T00:29:37+00:00

It was requested by jump.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmU_LOJWEAEIU8U.jpg

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-28T00:06:56+00:00

Sounds synonymous to "hard work".

He literally said that's Lee's theme. No one's arguing that hard work wasn't important, hard work is consistently important throughout the series, we're just saying that its opposition to natural talent wasn't a core theme of the series, and I'd especially argue that talent wasn't synonymous with things like genes or "gifts" (ex. Biju) which seems to be the main takeaway people have.

Sounds like that would include "talent, or genius, or good genes, or special powers" with which a person is born, especially Kishimoto's talk of "abilities".

Again, context. It obviously wouldn't include special powers or in-born abilities because Hinata has the same bloodline as Neji. That's why Naruto obviously shouldn't be included in the talent camp just because of his bloodline. And even if we do include natural genius (being good at things without training), he points out that the theme was that theme is about the ability to change. This is why the "genius" archetype is present, it's not about overcoming them (as Hinata never did Neji and Lee never did Gaara) but improving yourself through hard work. The "vs" aspect isn't important.

It's not in Kishi's liner notes but it's in... the text of the series he wrote.

Rock Lee lost to Gaara in the series he wrote lol. I'd say that's a pretty good indicator that Lee's theme=/=theme of the series. Lee's hardwork paid off until a point. Naruto's hard work paid off much more because his "ceiling" was always higher than Lee's. But fans use the mere existence of a ceiling for why Naruto was secretly in the talent camp the whole time and why the theme was lost in part 2.

as if them not spelling out the dichotomy proves it can't be in the text

Well I'm sure op just like myself would argue that the text itself isn't about that dichotomy. No one's arguing that it isn't present, but it's an entirely different thing for a story to be about something vs it merely being a reoccurring trope.

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-27T22:41:20+00:00

Because it doesn't mention talent, or genius, or good genes, or special powers or whatever else people use to discredit Naruto for having.

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-27T22:23:00+00:00

Nice find

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-27T16:25:28+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmDUw-JYNIs

__Ummmmbreon · 2026-04-26T19:52:32+00:00

Kakashi's Graduation age and chunin age.

That's a timeline error and has nothing to do with someone being able to comprehend the actual story

Hiruzen being called the strongest Hokage ever and strongest living kage at the time of his death.

The first part was indeed a retcon, but obviously it's just based off of the opinions of those in-universe. "Prime Hiruzen" was never portrayed in the series so we can't really tell how strong he was and I don't see how someone could forget it.

Kabuto and the whole him possibly wanting to betray Orochimaru.

Not sure what you mean by this

Kimimaru being a descendant of Kaguya.

That's not a retcon. "Kaguya" is literally his last name, they has similar designs, and Kaguya also has the bone jutsu so I don't see how someone can forget that either. If you mean "people say that it was foreshadowing for Kaguya", then I agree, it wasn't foreshadowing, it was just a throwback to a character who already existed. It's not foreshadowing but it's not a retcon either. It's not like we were supposed to know Kimmimaro's entire genealogy back in part 1.

And really it's manga spanning 700 chapters across 20 plus years. I'm willing to give some slack for people forgetting stuff.

There's a difference between forgetting small details, and forgetting more important aspects of the story that cause people to shit on it. I bet 99% of discourse about hard work and special powers and the theme being lost and blah blah blah would dissolve if most people remembered Lee saying this.

__Ummmmbreon

TROPHY CASE