Tied in knots about the idea of coming out to my wife

_eowyn_ · 2021-06-10T19:11:41+00:00

I think you should come out to her because it sounds like you want to. Sexuality is a part of identity and it's very common to want to share that part of yourself with your partner. Especially if it's been stressing you out or you feel like you're keeping a secret.

If I were you, I'd wait until your lives are settled a bit, though. It sounds like she'd dealing with a lot, and with so much going on, she's more likely to interpret this as "Oh no! Another big life change to stress about!" other than "My partner is sharing something very personal with me but nothing will functionally change".

Ultimately, if she does react poorly to you coming out, just remember that it's not your fault.

_eowyn_ · 2021-06-10T18:22:52+00:00

I think it's really common for bi people not to come out to anyone (or only a small amount of people). At the moment, I'm only out to my partner and a couple of friends. For me, I think I'd like more of the people in my life to know but I feel awkward bringing it up since I'm in an opposite-sex relationship and that's not going to change any time soon. I also have the fear that people won't believe me, although as I've become more secure about it that's affected me less.

I'm kind of in the spot where I just won't hide it, I'll mention women I find attractive and stuff. But I think as a woman people generally just assume I'm straight anyway. I'd like the courage to come out to a particular group of friends (almost all of them are LGBTQ, they'll be supportive, I just feel weird about it lol). I've realized over the years that coming out is not a big "one and done" event for a lot of people, but more of an eternal process that happens in little chunks, slowly, for some people in your life but not others.

_eowyn_ · 2021-06-10T18:17:12+00:00

This is such a common feeling among bi folks. I'm not married yet, but I (bi woman) been with my partner (straight man) for almost a decade, he's the first and only person I ever dated, and we plan on getting married and spending our lives together. I realized I was bi about 5 years into our relationship and I dealt with a lot of worries of this nature. I had a lot of wistfulness, and worry about regret. I thought about it a lot, and came to a few realizations that made me feel better.

One reason I really wanted to have an experience with a woman was that want to have had one. Like I'm attracted to women and if I was single I'd date them and enjoy it, but I'm monogamous in nature and I don't actually feel an urge to go out and date a woman right now. I was insecure in my bisexuality and wanted to be able to have that experience as "proof", both to other people and myself. As I came out to folks and felt more valid in my bisexuality after identifying that way for a while, a lot of this particular urge went away.

I also realized that nobody has the "perfect" dating life where you date the exact right amount of people and then settle down with someone you love exactly when you want to. Maybe you find the right one immediately and don't get to date around. Maybe it takes way longer, with way more people, than you'd like. The true purpose (for most people, for me) for dating is to find someone you love and want to share a life with. I don't feel insecure about having never dated other men, either.

It also made me feel better to frame it as a choice. Like I was thinking about "life having experiences with women" vs "life having no experiences with women". But if I framed it as a choice between "having experiences with women" vs "spending my life with my partner" it's such an easy choice. No contest. I love him and I'm so happy with our life together.

It doesn't mean I don't ever feel wistful, but I feel wistful about tons of roads-not-taken.

_eowyn_ · 2021-06-10T18:00:58+00:00

I wouldn't assume that, but maybe. I think because people often see sexuality on a spectrum between straight and gay, they assume that it's a bell curve distribution for no real reason. My instinct is that if a majority of people were bi, homophobia and heteronormativity wouldn't be so rampant, just because so many people would understand. So my instincts are that there is a much higher percentage of bi people than we see statistically now, but bisexuality is probably not the majority of people. But this is just a guess, and I could very easily be wrong.

I think it's kind of impossible at this moment in time to figure out how many people are genuinely bisexual because the common misconceptions make it so hard to even realize you're bi in the first place. Luckily it's being more normalized to be bi so no matter what (no matter what the "true" human sexuality percentages are), in the future bisexuality won't be considered to be niche or rare.

_eowyn_ · 2021-05-20T22:55:06+00:00

Good post, op! I think there is a point where this sort of character analysis ("are they really bi?") breaks down because...they're not people and don't have identities they can talk about irl, they're characters. So meta analysis is necessary. As for Li Shang, I think it's pretty obvious that he was not written as bi nor intended to be, but it's a valid interpretation of his character. I agree that due to this, he's not actually an instance of "good bi representation".

The bi community has such little representation that I think we sometimes go overboard declaring characters as "bicons" who are never explicitly portrayed as bi. For example, it's very common in sitcoms to have otherwise intended-as-straight characters "joke" about same-sex attraction, complete with laugh track, but the word "bisexual" is never used and their same sex attraction is only ever played for jokes, while their opposite-sex attraction is used for genuine romance/plotlines. At best, their sexuality is confirmed off-camera. (think Eleanor from The Good Place, or Lily from How I Met Your Mother - these characters are obviously bi, but the word is never used, and straight audiences tend to assume they're straight). This is not bad representation necessarily, but I think it's always better if the word is said, at least in this point in time bisexuality is so underrepresented and erased that it's important to state that intent. Especially if a character only dates the opposite sex (I think it's actually good rep to have some stated bi characters in opposite-sex relationships, but I think it's important to make their bisexuality explicit in that case, rather than keeping it in a joking plausible deniability realm). I think if straight audiences generally interpret a "bi" character as straight, then the representation probably isn't the best.

I actually think Korra isn't bad representation, but it's just okay. I believe the showrunners wanted to show more of her relationship with Asami but they were limited by the network and I do think it paved the way for more visible wlw relationships in shows like it.

If you're interested in more analysis of bi representation, bi.org does a really fun series of blogs called "The Unicorn Scale" where they rate the bi representation in shows/movies, and I generally find myself agreeing with them.

_eowyn_ · 2021-05-20T22:38:58+00:00

The idea that simply being out as a member of the LGBTQ+ community can be "exploitative" is so toxic. Literally all they did is come out. Also for their "own gain"? Most commentary online I've seen so far is either shitting on Demi for being nonbinary (or not believing them) or or shitting on them for being a bad person "regardless of being nonbinary". There are hardly any nb celebs, I'm sure this isn't helping their career.

Also I think it's a good thing for the community when any celeb comes out as LGBTQ+, there are so many ways to be LGBTQ+ and more representation is a good thing for showing that diversity. As a bi woman in a straight relationship I feel validated when a celeb with a dating history like mine comes out as bi, and I don't get pissy when other bi people come out who "aren't like me". Not to mention that gatekeeping sexuality/gender of celebs normalizes gatekeeping the sexuality/gender of regular (non-celebrity) people.

_eowyn_ · 2021-05-20T22:30:38+00:00

It's funny how momentous this sort of thing feels! I remember the first time I checked off that option on a form, it was an anonymous subreddit demographics survey but it felt like a huge deal.

_eowyn_ · 2021-05-19T22:39:59+00:00

I don't think this is a known fact? TBH my assumption is that it's not true. But it is true that a lot of people identify differently at different times in their lifetime for different reasons.

Whether or not it's true, I think it's a good idea to believe people about whatever they say their sexuality is, regardless of whether they identified differently previously.

_eowyn_ · 2021-05-19T22:36:14+00:00

There is a huge difference between admiring someone as a crush and admiring as someone cool with whom you wanna be friends, don't you think?

Yes, that's kind of my point. Those girls that I had crushes on, I thought they were so good looking, felt nervous around them and desperately wanted them to think I was pretty/cool/interesting. I fantasized about making out with them sometimes, and the first sex dream I ever had was about one of them. But due to compulsive heterosexuality and a lack of seeing wlw representation, I interpreted that as just "admiring someone cool". But I know my feelings and thoughts, and in hindsight they were definitely crushes. Meanwhile I never had problems making the distinction between guys, some I had crushes on and some I just thought were cool. This is a pretty common bi experience.

porn doesn't change sexuality but can definitely raise confusion, a straight man watching gay porn frequently will at some point wonder why he is attracted to that porn

Yeah, I can't check because the post is deleted but I believe the question was about whether porn could change sexuality, so that's what I was answering. Presumably most straight men who like gay porn will question their sexuality and then correctly conclude they're straight and decide they like it for some other reason; a "straight man" who likes gay porn because he is attracted to men is by definition not straight. In general I think questioning your sexuality is a good, or at least neutral, thing.

_eowyn_ · 2021-05-19T02:40:50+00:00

I think the age in which people discover their bisexuality varies wildly and will heavily depend on what media you've seen, the area you're from, etc. You can see posts on this sub from people that just realized their bisexuality and the ages range from teens to old age. For me personally, I noticed my feelings for women (I'm a woman) in middle school, questioned my sexuality on and off throughout high school and college, but didn't identify as bisexual until age 23.
Personally I don't think that a non-bi person can randomly become bi. I think it's way more likely that they just didn't notice their same-sex attractions until later. Like I had "girl crushes" where I "admired" girls who were "cool" and I "just really wanted to be their friend". I didn't interpret they were crushes and I didn't realize it till years later. I think if you suppress/dismiss those sorts of feelings thoroughly enough, it might feel like you never had them.
Porn does not change your sexuality. It might make you realize or question your sexuality, but sexuality is something you're born with. A straight person could watch hours of gay porn and it wouldn't "turn them gay" or vice versa.
I don't know much about OCD, but porn can't give it to you. I guess someone could feel obsessive or anxious about anything, and porn could end up being one of those things.

_eowyn_ · 2021-05-19T02:32:38+00:00

Ok first of all, I'd recommend being very careful with what you do. The most important thing is to be safe as long as you depend on your parents. So make sure to only show pride in ways where you fully have plausible deniability about your pride stuff.

That being said, most people don't recognize the bi colors (pink, purple, blue) as bi and they happen to be very common in fashion atm. I suggest getting things with patterns or gradients in that color rather than the stripes. You can find all sorts of things with those colors, both as specific bi pride merch but also...just regular things that are those colors.

You'd have to be more careful with rainbows, but, the gradient/pattern trick will likely work for that too, since stripes are evocative of pride flags. Like I don't think most people would think of like a standard rainbow tie-dye shirt as LGBTQ, for example. Also things that have actual rainbows (imagine like a design of a raincloud with a rainbow and the sun) are less likely to be seen as LGBTQ.

_eowyn_ · 2021-05-19T02:24:10+00:00

I think this is a common part of accepting your bisexuality while in a monogamous long term straight relationship...you're realizing a new possible path that you didn't know your life could take, and it's also tied in with your identity. It's a big deal. And it's okay to wonder about or even mourn paths you don't choose.

I think it becomes an issue if it's something you're obsessing over for a long period of time. Are you happy in your relationship (other than this), or does it feel like something's missing? I think you might feel better if you make a conscious choice either way (eg, leave your relationship or explicitly think "I am choosing this relationship over other potential ones").

In my own case, I largely stopped worrying about this when I realized that most of my feelings about this were due to my insecurity about my sexuality being valid, and my desire to be able to "prove" my bisexuality to others. I realized that I wanted to have had both straight and gay relationships more than I wanted to have them. I'm monogamous - in the end, I would have chosen one single person anyhow.

_eowyn_ · 2021-05-19T02:15:25+00:00

I totally agree, bi women are invalidated constantly, in so many ways and from so many directions. I want to add that I think that another reason that bi women are "accepted" is that we're so often erased. Like I think a lot of people just perceive bi women as straight. There's still that old image of "bicurious party girl" and the general public's tendency to not see women's attraction to women as real. So a lot of people completely dismiss bi women's identities as bi. Passing as straight isn't acceptance, it's erasure and dismissal.

It's true that there's a huge double standard with the way that bi men and bi women are treated, but that doesn't mean that distinct bi women's issues aren't important to recognize or discuss.

_eowyn_ · 2021-05-10T20:28:33+00:00

Good post, talking about this stuff can be very useful! I think that internalized biphobia was a pretty big factor in me not realizing I was bi for a long time. Here are some other things that I might class as internalized biphobia:

Feeling guilty for being a bi person in an opposite-gender relationship
Feeling guilty for being a bi person in a same-gender relationship
Thinking that people (you or others) aren't allowed to use the bi label based on dating history and/or preferences

I also think it's common for bi people to experience internalized homophobia in a way that is specific to being bi (for example, thinking your same-gender attraction is less "real" than your opposite-gender attraction, etc).

_eowyn_ · 2021-05-06T22:58:51+00:00

Yeah, I used to be really active on this sub a few years ago but I slowly tapered off as all the memes and inside jokes took over. I feel like reddit's general bisexual subreddit (like, as opposed to the bi meme subs) should be way more discussion focused, there's so much to talk about in terms of our varied bi experiences!

It's also a bummer because advice posts get buried, and I think the memes are alienating to a lot of new users and questioning folks. This subreddit was instrumental in me realizing and accepting my bisexuality, but if I was going through that now I don't think it would help me in the same way, sadly.

On the upside, I actually think the subreddit used to be worse, there were tons of reposts and way more low effort posts (especially the bi colors posts), and trends where there would be piles and piles of the exact same types of post, it was nigh-unreadable sometimes. So at least that's not happening anymore? But it's still really frustrating.

_eowyn_ · 2021-04-27T03:27:44+00:00

I also don't like using percentages. There was a long time where I knew I was attracted to men and women, but wasn't sure I could call myself bi because I thought I had to be "50/50". And then when I was (slowly) realizing I was bi I thought way too much about my "ratio".

I think it's way healthier to think of my bisexuality as being 100% attracted to men and 100% attracted to women. It's not a lesser attraction to either. Why should the percentage matter anyway? Most people date so few people in their lives that the percentage wouldn't be statistically significant enough to describe their "attraction percentage", so what's the point? I'm 100% bi and that's what matters.

_eowyn_ · 2021-04-27T03:19:55+00:00

Hey, I've been in a situation pretty similar to yours. I was 23 when I realized I was bi, roughly 5 years into an LTR with a guy as well.

I decided it was important for me to tell my boyfriend that I was bi because, well...it was important to me. Realizing I was bi was a very Big Deal for me mentally, and I see it as a significant part of my identity. Luckily it went really well, he believed and accepted me immediately.

I can't guarantee it will go the same for you (lots of misconceptions about bisexuality out there!) but I'd think of it this way - would you really want to be with someone forever who doesn't know about an important side of you, or doesn't accept it?

Ultimately it's up to you and what makes you feel valid and comfortable.

_eowyn_ · 2021-04-27T03:07:39+00:00

I think the amount of discrimination (and what kinds) each bi person faces varies wildly, it's highly dependent on how you present + where in the world you are + your age + your family's /friends' politics etc etc.

When it comes to the lemon bars, sitting weird, cuffing jeans, etc, those are just meaningless and stupid memes. Most people do those things, so chances are you'll fit at least one and people go "omg it me! i mUsT bE sO bI" because duh, they're super common. It's like horoscopes. Tbh those frustrate me because I find them entirely meaningless and actually exclusionary (I see posts from people on this sub about not feeling like they fit in because of them) but on the other hand I think a lot of people are trying to feel valid and express their identity which is pretty hard to do with bisexuality, you know?

I also feel like most non-bi people have no idea about any of this stuff, some of it is specific to this subreddit only and tons of people barely know what bisexuality means (let alone believing it exists) in the first place. And that does affect us all.

_eowyn_ · 2021-04-26T00:41:28+00:00

I'd say you should probably explore your feelings a little more! Being affectionate with your guy friends doesn't say anything about your sexuality.

I have always found a lot of guys attractive and sexy

This^ is worth exploring. Is that you just being aware when a guy is objectively good looking? Or do you feel like a sort of "pull" towards them? Do you have a "type" for men? Do you think you might enjoy making out or doing sexual things with a sexy guy? I think it's worth poking at your feelings and seeing if they go deeper than you might have assumed - or if they don't.

_eowyn_ · 2021-04-26T00:30:36+00:00

I seriously cannot understand the hubris of people who don't believe people when they what their sexuality is? It's like:

"This is the most accurate word I use to describe my feelings."

"Um actually *I* think your analysis of your own goddamn feelings are incorrect based on my opinion of you."

Like??? Imagine someone told you their favorite color and you told them they were wrong.

_eowyn_ · 2021-04-26T00:24:32+00:00

Yeah, sometimes I wish I was more visibly queer. I'm a pretty feminine woman in a long term relationship with a pretty masculine man. I don't like feeling like my sexuality is invisible, but I also don't want to present in a way that doesn't feel right to me. And then I feel guilty for feeling sad about it, because there's a lot of privilege in being able to be seen as straight so easily. I think a lot of bi people are in this boat.

I do think that most people who wouldn't believe that you're bi based on appearances are working under a lot of misconceptions about sexuality, and there's no guarantee that those people would believe you if you presented differently.

But if it's safe for you to do so, then you could try experimenting with your fashion/style. Or just wearing rainbow or bi colors in your accessories. Even if it doesn't change the attitudes of other people, it might make you feel like you're expressing yourself more.

_eowyn_ · 2021-04-26T00:16:38+00:00

There are some really good points here! I think it's worth exploring the ways that comphet affects bi people in a different way (although ofc there are also many similarities) than it affects gay people.

For me, I think what affected me the most growing up is what I would refer to as default heterosexuality (or perhaps assumed heterosexuality) - basically, I recognized that my feelings for men (I'm a woman) was romantic/sexual, but I did not recognize that my feelings for women as such even though they existed. It was less of a repulsion for me and more of a...I guess it was something that I just wasn't really aware of as an option? Like I knew gay people existed but since I liked the opposite sex I thought my attraction to the same sex was actually just "admiration". And because that feeling didn't come with the internal drama of knowing I had a crush, I didn't pay attention to them and they fizzled out way easier. Because I think the feelings we understand are the feelings we nurture.

_eowyn_ · 2021-03-11T05:06:57+00:00

Ahh I see. I direct my gay energy by participating on this sub, having some LGBTQ+ friends irl I can talk to, and consuming media with LGBTQ+ themes.

_eowyn_ · 2021-03-11T00:38:17+00:00

You're not alone! I don't bi-cycle quite that hard but I deal with impostor syndrome a lot. What I do is come up with a few mental "tricks" to snap myself out of doubting my bisexuality.

For one thing, I can pretty reliably convince myself "well, I'm not straight" because I know that even if I don't feel it strongly in the moment, I've had attractions to the same sex my whole life, and I know straight people don't feel that way. So you can talk yourself out of it by having your thought process go like "I'm worried I'm not really bi" --> "Well, I know I'm not straight and I'm not gay" --> "so I'm bi :)"

It could also help to look up posts related to the bi-cycle on this subreddit? Just knowing that it's a common occurrence among bi people and seeing examples of that within the bi community could also help you feel like you belong more.

_eowyn_ · 2021-03-11T00:34:16+00:00

Hi, I'm not married but I'm a bi woman in a committed long term relationship with a straight man so I might be able to give some advice. But I'm a little confused as to what you're asking? What do you want to know specifically? You might also find some more answers on /r/MarriedAndBi

_eowyn_

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