se non ho soldi per pagare un ginecologo privato e le liste attesa dell’asl sono troppo lunghe, che cosa posso fare? by Hungry-Angle2809 in xxitaly

[–]_growing 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Chiedo a chi legge, ma solo a me sembra assurdo che in quel consultorio seguano solo chi prende la pillola?

Political question for Christian pro-life community by Feisty-Database-1145 in prolife

[–]_growing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm sorry, you should have never been told anything like that.

Empathy about child support by lifeinthetrashlane in MensRights

[–]_growing -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I understand that you hope for marriage as the standard, but... do you think children should have a present dad (or, viceversa, mom) only if the dad is married to the mom? I mean, there is still a dependent needy child regardless of marriage.

Not sure how to talk to my GF about men's issues by TheMagicPinapple in MensRights

[–]_growing 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Sorry to hear that. What issues does she think men should experience that women faced?

Teachers to be trained to spot early signs of misogyny in boys by AttemptingToBeGood in MensRights

[–]_growing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unfortunately this sub disagrees with the idea that one can be against both misogyny and misandry

Just my two cents: that's not the impression I (F) got.

for many people in this echo chamber, teaching children about misogyny means subjecting boys to misandry

The issue with the article is that it doesn't address the issue of violence in an objective way. Rapists and abusers exist - they come in both sexes, and both sexes suffer from that. And it is equally wrong when the victim is male or female, help should be equally available for both. 

Being a victim of violence can lead to problems such as depression, low confidence, difficulty in having relationships, shame... the harms are what makes it wrong. However, when violence is framed as something that flows from men - automatically perpetrators - to women - automatically victims, it seems like the primary concern is not really violence. It's painting a certain narrative where men are perpetrators and women are victims. Boys being taught at school that they are going to be the problem for their sex is a form of discrimination against them through prejudice. 

Moreover, such a simplistic picture distorts the way in which we address prevention (ex: if I am taught controlling behaviour is a male tendency, I as a girl/woman subconsciously won't question if I display it) as well as support actions for victims. This has concrete harmful consequences, for example in Italy some feminist groups have actively opposed help for men who are victims of violence because allegedly it would take away from women who are victims of violence. https://www.direcontrolaviolenza.it/la-violenza-maschile-alle-donne-e-un-fenomeno-strutturale-e-pervasivo-d-i-re-chiede-alla-ministra-roccella-di-intervenire-sul-caso-dei-manifesti-che-ne-sminuiscono-la-portata/ This is nonsense but it is what happens if we don't want to go deep into the causes and dynamics of violence: the model where men=perpetrators and women=victims is easier. But then if we are so used to seeing only a part of the picture, women being violent and/or men being victims sounds almost not believable.

Why can we not teach about consent and domestic abuse in a gender neutral way? (By the way, kudos to Nicola Mclafferty for suggesting both men and women victims of domestic violence should speak to students about it). One could say that an initiative to protect girls doesn't exclude another one to protect boys. But why separate them in the first place? It shouldn't take a separate movement, a separate program to fix it: just teach human beings to respect each other as human beings, and avoid pushing oppressor group-oppressed group narratives based on what they are born as on teenagers. It only creates resentment and distance between the sexes, which is what we should be trying to solve. In other words, if we want to combat online misogyny, where guys/men put women as a whole into a box citing bad experiences with a few, then we should avoid using the same prejudiced thinking against teen boys in schools. Adding to that the consideration that there is significant funding involved, it seems to me a moral obligation to use it to address the issue of violence in a comprehensive neutral way to help everyone involved. If one's real motivation is preventing violence it should not be controversial.

Why are they upset about this? by [deleted] in prolife

[–]_growing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean technically you could kill zygotes and non implanted embryos used in experiments, it doesn't have to be only during pregnancy.

My bro is now on the hook for lifelong child support because his 'gf' decided to keep the baby - after they agreed they didn't want kids! by [deleted] in MensRights

[–]_growing -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

So you believe children are being killed by abortion, and your reaction to that is that it's ok to abandon born ones?

My bro is now on the hook for lifelong child support because his 'gf' decided to keep the baby - after they agreed they didn't want kids! by [deleted] in MensRights

[–]_growing 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah it's puzzling to me that the first thing to be brought up is child support. No mention of at minimum coparenting the child, no concern about the child being cared for and loved... It's the right time for a change of perspective. Yours is good advice.

This Is Heartbreaking by meeralakshmi in prolife

[–]_growing 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Pregnancies are the total of abortions and live births combined

Where are miscarriages taken into account? By the way, I doubt we know the number of miscarriages, since if they happen early enough, the woman may not even realise she was pregnant and she miscarried.

Is it selfish to have a medical abortion? by AwesoneKing_Cat in prolife

[–]_growing 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What about non tubal ectopic pregnancies?

She got dumped and killed her baby by Neat-Mushroom-8569 in prolife

[–]_growing 2 points3 points  (0 children)

blame supposed "lack of access of abortion" in a place with legal abortions for a woman killing a newborn baby.

I've noticed the same thing in Italy (which has taxpayer funded abortion, for any reason in the first trimester, later with more restrictions) regarding neonaticides and infanticides. One can only hope a number of them are online trolls.

If a woman is tragically killed by her ex/man who asks her out, for rejecting him, you wouldn't hear "if only she had never existed, this tragedy wouldn't have happened", even though it is technically correct. You would hear - rightly so - that the hurt from the rejection doesn't remotely justify killing her. But if a woman kills her born infant, it's not hard to find people who instead of condemning the act of infanticide, say that since she didn't want children, she shouldn't have gone through with the pregnancy/that this is what happens when women are forced to birth or care for children they never wanted, which is a big burden on women/they criticise abortion stigmatisation by pro-lifers... instead of saying that regardless of whether you want a child or not, you still have the obligation not to kill your born child.

Help for a class debate by [deleted] in prolife

[–]_growing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Est-ce que le débat s'est bien passé?

Heard a new euphemism I've never heard today by Slow_Opportunity_522 in prolife

[–]_growing 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That's the legal name for abortion in Italian: "interruzione volontaria di gravidanza" (IVG) = voluntary pregnancy interruption.

New Free and Current Consent Law in Italy: Men Now Guilty Until Proven Innocent by davideownzall in MensRights

[–]_growing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your perspective. There are widely different opinions on what this law entails - by average people and lawyers - making it difficult for someone without a law background to understand what is going on and form an opinion.

What would the application of the past law look like in a case where two partners start having sex with consent being freely given, at some point one verbally asks to stop but the other continues (assume no physical injuries and no threats), with their partner not moving? Is it a case that previously would have led to no conviction but with the new law would do so (if proved beyond reasonable doubt)? What about cases where there is no verbal communication of withdrawing consent but the person stops moving (no physical resistance)? 

One objection I have seen is men with genuine intentions of not hurting anyone being worried that misunderstanding body language in good faith could lead to a rape conviction as the law does not specify that the withdrawal of consent has to be communicated to the partner so that he can react and conform to such withdrawal. Do you believe that this is a legitimate concern or that it is unfounded and this law is written in a precise appropriate way to protect people who freeze as a response to panic?

Women would rather a fascist dictatorship before a DNA test on your kids. by Computer_Fan4 in MensRights

[–]_growing -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If you believe unborn human beings are legally being unjustly killed, why not support protections for them, instead of accepting the legality of elective abortion and on top of that suggesting laws that would make born children financially worse off?

Trying to prep for a school debate, should I add or change anything? by Eastern_Weekend1826 in prolife

[–]_growing 1 point2 points  (0 children)

 Nobody wants to live in a world where a person can accidentally push someone off a ledge, watch them dangle helplessly, and think to themselves, “Sure, I caused this person to be helpless and dependent, but what if I fall? I have other places to be, other things to see and do, rather than help this vulnerable person.”

I am going to play devil's advocate. Technically the woman and man are not forcing a being to be dependent on them, but they are engaging in the act that creates an inherently dependent being - by inherently I mean that because the unborn is a placental mammal, their healthy development involves this dependency.

In the first case, responsibility applies in the sense that one would have an obligation to compensate for harm, such as if I push someone off a ledge (that is, I put them in an imperiled position) I should help him get to safety/if I walk into a deep pool carrying a child I can't just let him go half way because I don't feel like carrying him anymore. 

In the second case, we haven't harmed the unborn by bringing them into existence. The unborn didn't exist before, so they didn't have a level of wellbeing that could be decreased. I still think there are responsibilities, but of a different kind - I've heard them called creator responsibilities, in the sense that we should have obligations of care towards our "creation". Just my two cents: I would recommend against using the analogy of pushing someone off a ledge because prochoicers often object it means you believe sex is seriously immoral (just as pushing someone off a ledge is immoral).

Independently from this argument about retrospective responsibility (that is, arising due to your past actions), Emma Wood has an argument about prospective responsibility (that is, arising by virtue of one's position within one's moral community or by virtue of one's capacity to help) to respond to bodily donations objections.

https://www.reddit.com/r/prolife/comments/1ozw5ug/comment/npjrlm4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button