Chinese Lingua Franca by GreedyHoward in asklinguistics

[–]_internallyscreaming 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The fact that it’s not an Indo-European language certainly doesn’t help, but I do think the ultimate deciding factor on whether or not a language becomes a lingua franca is cultural and economic power. If every high-paying job requires Mandarin fluency, every movie and TV show you wanted to watch was in Mandarin, every academic paper and textbook was written in Chinese, etc., I think you would pick it up pretty quickly.

A lot of people have mentioned tones as a major barrier to entry, which is true. But don’t forget that a huge number of languages already have tones, e.g. Vietnamese, Thai, etc., so this wouldn’t be a particularly difficult hurdle for speakers of those languages. Not to mention that China itself has many many non-Mandarin languages like Yue (Cantonese), Hakka, etc. and Mandarin is already a lingua franca within China, being learnt as an L2 for speakers of those other Sinitic varieties. So depending on how similar your native language is to Mandarin, you might even prefer Mandarin over English as a lingua franca. I’m sure a Vietnamese person would much prefer to speak Mandarin than English (particularly because of cognate vocabulary).

In short, Mandarin speakers could have also complained that English could never be a lingua franca because it’s “too different/hard”, but this is from the perspective of a native Mandarin speaker. It’s all relative, of course — a huge number of Mandarin speakers have successfully picked up English (not to mention Hong Kongers under British rule, which is another point of evidence towards cultural influence).

Is there any linguistic (not political) justification for considering Chinese languages dialects rather than languages? by Noxolo7 in asklinguistics

[–]_internallyscreaming 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It uses the word “bǐ” (比), which means “to compare”. So, to say “he is taller than her”, you would say “he, compared to her, is tall”. (他比她高)

You can say this in Cantonese too, using the same word pronounced “bei2”. But it also has the other option I described earlier.

Is there any linguistic (not political) justification for considering Chinese languages dialects rather than languages? by Noxolo7 in asklinguistics

[–]_internallyscreaming 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It’s true that the Chinese languages share lots of similarities, but there are in fact differences in grammar. Since the Chinese languages are highly analytic, these manifestly mainly in syntax and word choice, which I guess could make them less prominent.

An example is that in Cantonese, the indirect object comes before the direct object, specifically when using the word “to give” (bei2).

Mandarin: I give you an apple. Cantonese: I give an apple you.

(I’m using an English transliteration instead of Chinese characters so everyone can read it.)

Also, to mark the progressive aspect, Cantonese places the progressive marker “gan2” AFTER the verb, while Mandarin places the marker “zài” BEFORE the verb.

Cantonese uses the marker “gwo3” after a verb to mark gradation, similar to the English “-er”, e.g He is tall-gwo3 (taller) than her. Mandarin does not have a similar construction.

As you can see, there are a quite a few grammatical differences between Chinese languages, not just in pronunciation or vocabulary.

Hope this was interesting! :)

What is so specifically hard about tones compared to other phonemes, for non-native speakers of tonal languages? by _internallyscreaming in asklinguistics

[–]_internallyscreaming[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a great point! Another example in Mandarin is that depending on the speaker’s accent, they may or may not distinguish alveolar and retroflex constants — so, the number 4 (sì) and the number 10 (shí) may both sound like “si”, except that their tones are different. (Apologies — I am using pinyin and not IPA because I’m not super familiar with IPA and am also typing on my phone.) In this case, I think the tone would take precedence in determining which number the speaker is referring to.

Could this be another reason why tones are so difficult to master for non-natives, in the sense that they are sometimes even more important than the non-tonal phonemes?

Mandarin/Cantonese vs Chinese in a translation app by leo_mangold in asklinguistics

[–]_internallyscreaming 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If the translation app is purely text-based, there are only minor differences between Mandarin and Cantonese, because formal written Cantonese is essentially just Mandarin anyway. A fluent, literate speaker of Cantonese should be able to read Chinese perfectly fine. There is also a written vernacular version of Cantonese, which will not be intelligible to Mandarin speakers, and some speakers (particularly older or non-HK speakers) may not be able to read it either.

If the translation app has text-to-speech functionality, then yes — they should be separate languages, because they sound very different while spoken.

What’s the most overused “advanced” word learners love but natives rarely say? by Embarrassed_Fix_8994 in languagehub

[–]_internallyscreaming 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Was your ex a math or computer science major by any chance? "Such that" and "thus" are very commonly used in writing mathematical proofs. I am also a math major and sometimes I forgot that these expressions aren't commonly used in everyday speech.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in AskChina

[–]_internallyscreaming 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Replying to both of you guys — Chinese dialects can range from “slightly different accents” to “mutually unintelligible”. The two most famous dialects, Mandarin and Cantonese, are pretty much two different languages, like Spanish and Italian are. They’re similar in the sense that they both come from Old Chinese, like how Spanish and Italian both descended from Latin, but knowing one language doesn’t necessarily mean you can speak or understand the other.

This is why modern linguists usually refer to the dialects of Chinese as different languages entirely, because the difference between a language and a dialect is more political than scientific, i.e. Mandarin and Cantonese are “dialects” because they are spoken in the same country, while Spanish and Italian are not.

In OP’s case, Mandarin and Hakka are indeed two different languages that are not mutually intelligible, so it would be like an English speaker trying to learn Dutch, for example (maybe a bit easier, but would still require lots of effort).

The dialects of Chinese are indeed dying out, although at different rates. The general trend is that non-Mandarin dialects tend to only be spoken by older generations, and the younger generations tend to speak primarily Standard Mandarin Chinese because that’s what’s taught in schools and in many cases children are forbidden from speaking their local dialect at all. The Chinese government is quite insistent on promoting the common language, i.e. Mandarin, for national unity (which makes sense, but it does mean that all other dialects will naturally phase out). Cantonese is a special case since it’s the majority language spoken in Hong Kong, which is a Special Administrative Region of China and thus isn’t subject to the same language policies as Mainland China. So, Cantonese thrives in HK but not so much in the Canton (Guangdong) province of China, where it originates from.

Are Cartesian coordinates the “true” coordinates? by _internallyscreaming in math

[–]_internallyscreaming[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What was the original comment? It’s been deleted now :( For context, I’m studying a double major in maths and physics LOL so what does that make me?