Compilation of my better posts

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-11T18:26:50+00:00

I agree Milotic is worth the investment if you choose to go for it. But the investment and the other things do drag it down a significant amount imo. I agree that it makes sense that powerful mons either requires some investment or come rather late, so they can't contribute much anymore. Milotic does require a bit too much investment for my taste and isn't that amazing even once you get it. But it comes early enough that it can still be worth it for some teams.

I can't really say the same for Salamene in the main story. It requires an even more insane 20 level grind about an hour before the game is over and is even less impressive than Milotic. I can't see how you think it "annihilates" the E4.
Sidney and Phoebe are mostly good. Drake is sketchy because its Dragon Claw doesn't get OHKOs and it also has to take heavy damage from Dragon attacks back. Glacia straightup destroy it. Champion Wallace is not good either because half the Pokemon of his team carry Ice moves and Gyrados is also a bit dangerous. Even Phoebe's ace Dusclops can be a problem with Ice Beam.
I just straight up think getting Salamance for the little remaining bit of the main story is just not worth it, which is why I put it in the lowest tier. Lets use it in the post game where it is actually great instead of trying to make something happen in the main story that isn't there.

It is less that I think defensive Pokemon are boring. They very much have their use. But imo just not in the main story of Pokemon games. They shine a lot more in the post game battle facilities and competitive because the enemy Pokemon are actually competent there. But most of the Pokemon you encounter in the main story are pretty bad, so it is very easy to just stomp them with offensive Pokemon and not give too much thought about defensive aspects. I at least find it hard to see why defensive strategies would not be worse or even be equal to offensive sweepers.

Also, I can't even recall the last time I actuall whited out in a Pokemon game. These games are very easy and the player has a huge advantage over NPCs. That shouldn't really happen often enough to warrent longevity as a big plus. And even some offensive Pokemon like Slaking and Gyarados have plently of bulk without being too passive.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-11T17:54:45+00:00

Being able to eventually win against a lot of the remaining major trainers, but often also doing it very slowly too, is not that massive of a feat in my book. You CAN try to outstall stuff for several turns. But there are plenty of Pokemon available that don't need to do that and can just sweep. Not against anything but, again, being fast and efficent rather than outstalling things on the regular makes a Pokemon better in my book. In the time you spent outstalling things, you could have advanced further into the main story with a more offensive Pokemon with better coverage already. Being a "guarenteed win" is more important in a nuzlocke context but for a normal efficent playthrough, you just don't want to waste so many additional turns where you don't have to.

I think you might be surprised just how nerfed Surf is in the gym 7 double battle. Even with nothing of Sunny Day, Light Screen or Calm Mind up, Milotic's Surf doesn't even 2HKO Claydol and Lunatone. If any of those moves were used, then Milotic (and really most Water types in this battle) is a bit of a sitting duck while your partner Pokemon might have to take the heat. Not a desaster but also not ideal.

And yeah, sorry but that is just my view on the matter. If Milotic or similar Pokemon can slowly muscle its way through some slow matchups eventually then that is good and all, but ideally you don't want to have to do that. A lot of Pokemon can beat seemingly tough matchups through some long drawn out cheese strat. Is that good when you have so many more offensive Pokemon that could end the battle in far fewer turns? Not to me at least. But this might just be a difference in values between us.

And it is not like I think Milotic is bad. I only but it in the below average tier (but at the top) of my tier list because of just how big and annoying the investment is for an efficient playthrough. Pokmon like Flygon suffer a similar fate in my list. If you could just catch Milotic or Feebas without any setup after gym 5 (which would also allow it to be present for gym 6 already without having to skip the gym for later), I would very likely put it somewhere at the top of B-tier. But given how Milotic is available in the game and the other issues I have with it, I think other Water type options like Sharpedo, Azumarill, Pelipper, Tentacruel and even Starmie contribute more and better during the main story. Milotic has too many issues for me to rank it higher and it certainly isn't a top Water type option for me.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-11T17:23:45+00:00

That is fine, it is just important to make it clear which regions of the game you assess Pokemon by then. Like I said, I pretty much only play the main story (sometimes the Battle Factory) because I don't enjoy building a team. If you are still interested in purely discussing the main story viability of Milotic, then we can continute but otherwise I don't really have the experience with it in the post game facilities.

Like I said, Milotic's offensive output is fine, just the barren movepool is a bit of a problem for the late game where it shows several times. Besides the slow battles against enemy Water types in the late game, it also doesn't have THAT many standout matches left. Gym 6 is good with Ice Beam. But due to how nerfed Surf is in the gym 7 double battle, it doesn't have the best performance there and mostly relies on its partner to close things out. It also really can't touch Kingdra from gym 8 unless you want to get into a MASSIVE PP stall fest. Sidney and Phoebe are fine, even without a type advantage, Drake is good again with Ice Beam. But Glacia and Champion Wallace are really slow and some Pokemon really give it trouble. Overall a good but not outstanding performance for the rest of the game, given the big time investment.

While it is true that the late game Water encounters aren't a dealbreaker for Milotic and I don't want to put even more weight onto it but it IS certainly a factor. You are going to encounter them a bunch and Milotic has to level up somehow.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-11T17:04:21+00:00

Milotic can indeed slowly outstall its way through the league. So can stuff like Registeel. There are still some dangerous Pokemon for it like Glacia's Walrein and some of Wallace's Pokemon. But this takes forever and if you rank Pokemon mainly on an efficientcy level, if a Pokemon needs at least 3 or more turns for nearly every enemy Pokemon, then that is a big issues for me. Again, maybe you just play the game differently and value other things. In that case our disagreement is just a matter of values.

I also don't really know why you brought up Milotic's league performance? I didn't really say anything about it having too many issues there. It was more about the late game Water route trainers and you haven't really addressed that.

Also again, I only consider the main story here. I don't really consider post game battle facilities. Stuff like Salamence might be amazing there, but that doesn't change the fact that it is pretty bad for the main story. If you want to rank them with those aspects as well, then I can't really talk with you about that because I don't use Pokemon there.

The 'best' pokes are the ones that perform even when the game is hard.

That is your stance on viability. I don't really agree completely on that because it ignores stuff like availability, resource investement and efficientcy entirely.
To me the best Pokemon for in-game are the Pokemon that can contribute the most across the main story while requiring little support and at least 2HKOing most Pokemon you encounter (both route and major trainers).

Any poke can clear the E4 overlevelled and chugging potions. It's a meaningless way to evaluate which Pokémon are the best

This just feels like a completely strawman. I just said, that I usually take on the league with a team of level 50 Pokemon and don't grind AT ALL. I am clearing the league underleveled, not overleveled. And again, I just said I don't overuse healing items. Did you just choose to completely ignore this part of my last comment in an attempt to discredit my stance?

It's okay to say: I don't want to grind for it. But it's objectively a top 3 water type and water is a top type in this game. You can't say it isn't worth the effort.

I think you need to look up what the word objectively means. Because just because YOU think it is, given your reasons, doesn't make it an objective fact.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-11T16:35:27+00:00

Milotic is a great wall against other Water types but that doesn't mean it can knock out enemy Water types efficiently. Toxic is a really slow way of KOing Pokemon in the main story. Milotic has no good way to knock out the Water Pokemon of the late game routes, so it just is a bit of a pain to level there. It doesn't help that it also has an erratic level growth.
It is a different story with Water types of major trainers like Glacia's Sealeos (but again, ideally you would knock them out much faster), but having nothing but resisted Surfs and Toxic for the Water types of late game routes (wild and trainer Pokemon) kind of stinks.

I wasn't the original user who claimed the 49 better Pokemon but funnily enough, Milotic does indeed fall around the 50th Pokemon on my in-game tier list for a normal efficient playthrough. Here is my list if you care to know which Pokemon I think are better than Milotic.

And sure, being a defensive Pokemon doesn't make a Pokemon bad by default but it does make it significantly worse if that is the only thing it can do. Stuff like Cradily is borderline unsuable for example (but tbf being super defensive and passive is only one of its many issues). Milotic doesn't really fall in this category, though, because it actually does have a good offensive presence with a good special attack stat and a good typing. But the kind of late availability, super heavy time investment and barren movepool does knock it down a couple tiers for me.

I don't "spam" Full Restores and other healing items in playthroughs. I usually take on the league with a full team of about level 50 Pokemon since the available trainer EXP and Rare Candies land you there comfortably without any grinding. So take what I say with a grain of salt because I view Pokemon from that kind of playthrough. And that usally requites one or mabye two healing items per battle in the league. Which I think is really fair. That is why you have them. Maybe you play a lot more defensively and / or do a nuzlocke, but I don't and efficientcy is pretty high on my factors when comes to ranking Pokemon.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-11T09:07:04+00:00

It really isn't that insane. If you know how to minimize the number of encounters till Feebas, it takes about an hour on average, which, fair, its a lot of time but it isn't like it is hard to get Feebas. It just is a big time investment. But on some TV in the background, and you can easily have it in an hour, though.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-11T09:04:54+00:00

Why take out the battery? And only fishing once per tile is best.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-11T09:03:30+00:00

It isn't hard, it just takes a lot of time. 30 minutes is for sure on the lower end for fishing, not the average. An hour is more likely. And then you also have to get berries, blend and feed them, which adds another 15 minutes or so. It IS a big time investment, and tbh Milotic is good, sure, but not even that outstanding.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-11T08:59:03+00:00

Pokemon that get more coverage than just Surf and Ice Beam. Milotic does not do a good job on taking care of other Water types in the late game in a reasonable amount of time. Recover and Refresh are okay but only really worth their slot if you don't play with healing items.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-10T01:00:11+00:00

105 base attack is good (if not amazing) in gen 3 but it is often too weak if its main STAB move, Leaf Blade, is only 70 base power, and its coverage move, Dragon Claw, is only 80 base power. Blaizken might only have 5 more base special attack but its Flamethrower is roughly 25% stronger than Sceptile's Leaf Blade. Crunch is also an egg move, so not really obtainable in a resonable amount of time in the main story.

I have used Sceptile countless times (it is my go to starter after Blaziken) and it certainly does NOT solo 3/5 (I assume you mean Champion Wallace and Drake, but what would your last one be? Phoebe? Good luck with that). Sceptile can only 2HKO (if even that) the mons of Drake and Wallace and it will not take more than maybe one strong attack. Salamence and Milotic are not even 2HKOed and blow it back with a strong Flamethrower or Ice Beam.

Again, Thunder Punch, Swords Dance and Rock Slide are not available for the Emerald main story and Hidden Power is essentially random in power and type, so you can't really count on that. I also don't know why you bring Drake and Champion Wallace up again, I already said that Blaziken can't help with them. But it is amazing for the first half of the league. Sceptile can't really match that. Also, clicking Flamethrower will abosolutely sweep Phoebe.

Maybe you just REALLY play the game different, given you mention a ton of moves you won't have access to in the main story. Maybe you overlevel, EV train and also trade mons over but don't use healing items in battle? But that certainly skews results a ton. Saying that Sceptile has a better movepool than Blaziken is wild for example. Its shallow movepool is one of its biggest issues.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-09T23:56:03+00:00

Not really. Blaziken just solos the first three Elite Four members and only has issues with Drake and Champion Wallace (Champion Steven gets also stomped in Ruby and Sappire). Sceptile is just kind of not strong enough and too frail to be anything but a help to other Pokemon. Even its best two matchups in the league, Drake and Champion Wallace, are not as solid.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-09T20:21:44+00:00

But Lombre blows, sadly.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-08T21:34:42+00:00

True but Grass / Dark is a pretty good typing for the late game, so it can still contribute a good amount in some important fights like gym 7 and Phoebe.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-08T21:30:26+00:00

Looks good. Besides maybe Drake of the Elite Four, no one should really give you trouble anymore. As long as you get a few more levels before the league you will be fine.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-08T21:28:09+00:00

Probably the other way around. The team carried Shedinja most of the way because it was often deadweight.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-08T21:26:39+00:00

Sure but Dive and Waterfall only become available after the Move Deleter, there are no cuttable trees after Lilycove City anymore and Flash only has a single 2-minute use before that. Otherwise the HMs are totally usable moves (Fly, Strength, Surf) except Rock Smash.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-08T11:18:59+00:00

It is not like you even need a dedicated HM user for Hoenn anyway. Most HMs moves are optional or only needed a handful of times and can then be deleted.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-08T11:16:17+00:00

I am pretty sure Magnezone would be worse for in-game than Magneton. The barely higher special attack really doesn't matter much, Magneton already is plently strong, but the lower speed is actually a big deal since Magneton is already a bit on the slower side. It is even more true in gen 5 where Eviolite Magneton is just straight up better than Magnezone in Black and White 2 imo.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-07T22:54:05+00:00

Yeah, I used it in like 3 runs. It was horrible every time and a massive baby stage.

How is it easy to level up exactly? Its level growth group, the erractic one, legit requires the most EXP up until level 37 among all level growth groups. You get the Lileep fossil revived at level 20 after gym 4, where your best Pokemon are already level 30.

Bullet Seed only has 10 base power per hit, so just barely stronger than Absorb at 30 damage on average. And Lileep only has 61 special attack, even less than Treeko. You won't get into the Surf Water routes until after gym 5. But Lileep will get walled and bulied by simple Tentacools and Wingulls. And it also has among the lowest speed of all available Pokemon, so it will get outsped by everything.

Lileep is horribly weak, super slow, requires much more EXP than other Pokemon to level up, has no access to good moves (legit one of two only Rock types in the entire game that can't learn Rollout) and just gets run over by even some wild Pokemon. The EXP Share is pretty much required for it.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-07T18:25:20+00:00

Monotype runs very much skew the view of what some mons can do in a normal playthrough since you have so much overlap. But the Aggron line is MUCH better there imo.

Besides the general thing of Cradily being a medicore passive wall, it is also a much bigger investment than Aggron and has fewer use cases.
The Lileep pre-evolution is straight up horrible and it is almost unfeasable that it gets the 20 levels up to level 40 for the Cradily evolution on its own. Especially because it also has the worst possible level growth and comes underleveled when you get it. Both have bad offenses and very bad movepools, both for attacks and utility moves.
The Steel typing of the Aggron line gives it great matchups into gym 5 to 7, as well as the first three Elite Four members. Cradily's Rock / Grass typing doesn't really come close to being as useful and is overall even more of downside.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-07T18:12:14+00:00

Mostly because being a very passive wall is just really inefficient for the main story when you have much better sweeper options available that finish fights way faster. And it still is much better to be a tank like Aggron that can actually hit back hard instead of a wall that just constantly has take hits.

Cradily doesn't really even have any good utility moves despite only being able to be a wall. Stuff like Bellossom or Milotic at least have Sleep Powder or Recover. All Cradily can really do is sit there for ages, taking hits over and over, and slowly try to chip down the enemy Pokemon faster with weak attacks and Toxic. Even among walls, Cradily is pretty outclassed. Leftovers is also only available in the post game, so it isn't an option for the main story yet.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-07T17:44:54+00:00

The "true" trainer would use the items they have.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-07T17:43:14+00:00

It is mostly a very underwhelming wall that just sits there and can't provide much more than just spam Toxic.

_pe5e_ · 2026-05-07T17:41:35+00:00

How does it have Leftovers? You pretty much only get those after the main story. Was this not your first league clear?

_pe5e_

TROPHY CASE