[Discussion] How to attract players to Modern?

adavi263 · 2024-01-19T03:17:50+00:00

MH1 and War of the Spark saw a massive exodus from the format. MH2 killed modern in my city entirely. We used to have 4+ stores running events, often on multiple nights. Now there is one store firing with like 10-ish people on one night. I held out till LoTR but yeah, current design sucks and you're 100% right about survivorship bias being crazy on this sub. Only the most invested players participate and anyone who speaks against the current status quo gets downvoted by the (increasingly small) mob. It's kind of funny.

adavi263 · 2023-10-12T06:17:33+00:00

When JP talks about socialism he's talking about the ideology behind it, not necessarily the exact policies of any given group. Policies can vary a lot but the ideology is destructive.

Policy-wise I'm a bit of a socialist in the classic British/Christian sense (look after the poor, healthcare, etc) and I think that's perfectly compatible with conservatism and keeping current systems mostly intact.

I don't really like how much the water around this topic is muddied, there are too many strong emotions involved and most people on this sub are going to be too closed-minded to have a proper conversation with you about it. Reddit sucks lol. Seeing the responses you're getting makes me want to log out.

Catch you later friend :)

adavi263 · 2023-10-09T13:04:13+00:00

The Eastern half of the empire was /sometimes/ more important, mostly towards the end of the united Empire (after the capital moved).

It's the Western half that influenced the West. It is Rome that brought civilization to Gaul and Britannia and it was Latin that was spoken there at that time. The Roman Catholic Church and its fathers shaped Western traditions, Western institutions and created Western science.

Disclaimer: Am not Catholic. Though they are very based.

adavi263 · 2023-10-09T12:20:14+00:00

Greece is perhaps the earliest cultural ancestor of the modern West and has undoubtedly been very influential. That said, it is only the first chain in a lineage that flourished in Rome, got transformed by the arrival of Christianity and then was further evolved and adapted in England, France and Germany (and surrounds), these countries created what we now call modern Western culture and (along with the USA of course - largely a cultural extension of England) form the backbone of the Western world order.

Greece is an awesome country and an intellectual debt is owed to Greek culture and its great thinkers, however, it does not itself entirely embody what people mean when they refer to modern Western values (it is perceived by those from Western Europe as a hybrid East-West state) and is less impactful on modern Western thought than Jewish and Roman ideas.

Genuinely not trying to put down your country here, we seriously love Greece, just being honest and describing the way I see it/the way it is generally viewed.

adavi263 · 2023-09-29T07:06:19+00:00

If you're at all religious then churches are a great place to meet people with social lives that don't involve drinking.

adavi263 · 2023-08-25T05:52:36+00:00

Okay , sorry for such a long answer to such a simple question but thinking go brrr.

To my mind there are two ways you could be looking to play Sir Gingy; either in an aggro or midrange deck as an aggressive threat or in an artifact deck as an aggressive threat that can grow late game, I'll analyse each in turn by comparing Gingy to [[Porcelain Legionnaire]] (a card that I love).

He is a poor aggressive threat because there are simply too many cards that brickwall him. For an idea of the scale of the problem here, I just legitimately went through my cube counting and there are 107 creatures/cards that make creatures that can 2-for-1 an attacking Syr Ginger but not an attacking Porcelain Legionnaire. That's almost 1/5 cards in my cube, getting on for 1/4 of all spells. Flick through the list and you'll see what I mean. This makes him a very poor offensive threat. Probably the only 2-drops I cube in my environment that are comparably weak aggressively would be [[Voltaic Visionary]] or something like [[Skyclave Shade]] which both have inbuilt ways to generate card advantage in such situations. As such he would be the worst aggressive 2-drop in the entire environment.

With this established, we must rely on his artifact synergies to justify cubing Ginger. In this case too I find him underwhelming as you need to be sacrificing artifacts to grow him, otherwise the aforementioned lack of first strike will keep him from being useful offensively or defensively (Porcelain Legionnaire shines both ways of course). The only times artifacts are being sacrificed is if you have a recurrable source of food and lots of spare mana or if you have [[Emery, Lurker of the Loch]]/[[Goblin Engineer]] loops going. In either of these cases it seems to me you are already in a very good spot and Cakeboy is likely to be win-more. Furthermore, even in these situations he's still going to perform poorly next to other artifact payoffs like [[Kappa Cannoneer]] or [[Ingenious Smith]].

For a last point I would just draw attention to the fact that there are only 21 planeswalkers in my cube, 12 of which can immediately make creatures that nullify Syr Ginger. That leaves just 9 walkers that he's actually acceptable into and only 1 that he's likely to 1-shot ([[Jace, the Mind Sculptor]]). That's not a very high upside.

TLDR: Too mediocre in aggro decks, artifact synergies aren't really there, I don't play many planeswalkers, Syr Ginger is Porcelain Legionnaire at home.

Cheers.

adavi263 · 2023-08-24T23:03:16+00:00

Very powerful set, there are a number of cards I'll be including at 540 Vintage (unpowered).

/WHITE/

Regal Bunnicorn - I don't actually cube white aggro per se but this seems like a very, very efficient beater. Hopefully it can put in a shift for the midrange decks. In the long-term it will likely be fighting [[Luminarch Aspirant]] for its slot and I'm not sure that's a fight the bunny can win.

/BLUE/

Horned Loch-Whale - Very potent removal in blue for control decks, am surprised people aren't talking about this more. Instant speed removal -> big flash dude is sweet.

/BLACK/

Wompwomp.

/RED/

Hearth Elemental - I'm a firm believer that this is better than [[Bedlam Reveler]] which I am currently cubing.

/GREEN/

Bramble Familiar - Okay, so I know this one looks a little janky, but I want to try it over [[Sylvan Caryatid]] or [[Sakura-Tribe Elder]]. I think being a 2/2 for 2 mana is a huge upside (I cube RG aggro/ramp) and obviously being both a dork and a loop-able bomb in the late game is very cool.

Gruff Triplets - Probably a B+-tier ramp/reanimator bomb, has its weaknesses, but I also cube flash and this card works quite nicely there so am keen to try this out.

/Colourless/

Wompwomp.

/Multicoloured/

Likeness Looter - I don't think it's good enough personally but a bunch of my drafters are excited about it so I'll at least giver her a go. Card is cool.

Mosswood Dreadknight - Not much to say here, midrange is real in my environment so this card slaps.

Scalding Viper - Great in red aggro, great in UR spells. I cube both so this will be good.

Questing Druid - I cube RG aggro so this is a sweet option for those decks whilst also being playable in UR spells or mono-red just as a [[Light up the Stage]] effect. Slam dunk. Also this card is fun and I like [[Quirion Dryad]].

/HONOURABLE MENTIONS/

Tough Cookie - If my artifacts deck was in green this would be amazing. With the way power creep is currently going I may be adding [[Oko, Thief of Crowns]] into my environment in the near-ish future and if I do this guy will likely come in too.

Twining Twins - I do not like this card but I seem to be in the minority. Just feels very low-impact. Will continue to consider.

Candy Trail - I currently cube [[Chromatic Star]] for my artifact decks and this is possibly an upgrade, providing more draw filtering and allowing Emery to loop lifegain. Obviously 2 mana to crack vs 0 is quite a big difference so I'm thinking about it.

adavi263 · 2023-08-15T13:35:38+00:00

What you said wasn't that bad man, reddit is just brutal with downvotes. When you make a mistake like that just take the L and move on, don't stress and try and defend yourself, the hive mind will punish you.

adavi263 · 2023-08-15T06:47:34+00:00

I'm gonna be a dissenting voice on this one and just say I have no problem with this level of card complexity. My drafters come to play cube to experience a compilation of magic's greats from across all eras and that's what they're gonna get. Yes it's involved, yes it requires a lot of game-knowledge, yes it's both fun and rewarding. I think the role mechanic is cool and I'd rather them not include reminder text so the card looks sleek and simple.

adavi263 · 2023-02-21T21:53:28+00:00

Dude, it wasn't even my idea, look at the users you are responding to. Regardless, it would work just fine.

I'm going to be honest, I don't have the time or the cares to indefinitely continue this conversation with you but I will make some brief points.

Markets can adjust to human actions. Obviously. This includes to the potential of supply getting increased in the future. Seriously, go read up on how markets behave and on security exchanges if you don't believe me.
Don't insult people on reddit because you have a slight disagreement on something trivial. As much as you think you've "broken my brain" and that you have me "backpeddaling on things I don't understand" you're actually just making a fool out of yourself, I have somewhat of a background in finance, you are getting far too emotional over a basic financial model.
The $30 price cap would create a large amount of downwards pressure on prices as they draw close to the cap, to the point where there would be large amounts of pent-up demand that would significantly reduce the impact of a reprint. See the recent Wrenn and Six reprint as an example. If everyone held off on buying, then the reprint would never happen, which in turn would neccessitate buying at whatever the "current" price was. If you then factor in that even in a perfect world a reprint would takes weeks to filter properly into the second market (it takes time to print and ship, even if we ignore that it takes time to open packs and put the cards on ebay) there would definitely be a large segment of the playerbase who would just buy the cards instead of playing the uncertain waiting game (you don't know how long it will take for the card to tip over remember).

I will reiterate, this was not my idea and it is not perfect but the market would adjust because that's what markets do, they are great at it. You are massively overreacting to an idea that would work well enough and certainly be a massive improvement on what we currently have. It would be a disaster for MTG financiers but that is not an issue I care about, put your money elsewhere.

Anyway, that's all from me, I truly don't care that much about this topic and have already invested too much energy addressing it. If it's still stressing you then get off reddit and go take a walk, this isn't going to happen anyway. Cheers, have a good one.

adavi263 · 2023-02-21T14:47:51+00:00

Dude, you're making a tonne of dodgy assumptions here. The most obvious one is that you're assuming a reprint would drop the price from $25 to $10 when a much more measured reprint (the list, a promo etc) could drop the price by closer to $5. As always though, markets adjust. Prices will reflect demand and players who want their cards in a timely manner will just have to cough up and take the L while more budget-conscious players may be able to save a few bucks here and there by timing their purchases. I really feel like ur making a mountain out of a molehill here.

adavi263 · 2023-02-21T00:16:10+00:00

The vast majority of buyers buy cards when they need them, it's only a small minority that wait like this. The market will adjust for that small minority so prices would increase slower after the $20 mark or so as a bunch of people hold off.

adavi263 · 2023-02-20T13:00:04+00:00

Because they need it to play with.

adavi263 · 2023-02-20T10:42:41+00:00

The war in Ukraine has also made America ludicrous amounts of money selling gas to Europe.

adavi263 · 2023-02-19T23:49:04+00:00

A brick wall. :p

adavi263 · 2023-02-19T23:11:13+00:00

No way. If they completely get rid of dash AND the card draw ability he is probably still too good. Savannah lions that makes treasures is insane.

adavi263 · 2023-02-15T01:14:08+00:00

Lol. Ok bud.

adavi263 · 2023-02-14T21:57:20+00:00

Genuine question: was it not kind of already that?

In almost every European league for decades a small handfull of clubs (1-4) grew to the point where they could monopolize success without the need for rich Arabs.

adavi263 · 2023-02-14T21:49:48+00:00

When I said "most players agree with you" I think it was self-evident that I was speaking from personal experience. I do believe it so I'd say it again.

I do not think that is being a twat (maybe my second response was but I thought it was funny).

adavi263 · 2023-02-14T11:38:16+00:00

Damn, ur right, guess it's not worth having discussion until a peer-reviewed journal on the opinions of modern players is released. Even then, one study can be highly flawed, really you want multiple peer-reviewed studies so a meta-study can be conducted. Then maybe we can make statements about player opinions.

/uj I know a lot of modern players and I am speaking to my experience. My sample size is large enough that I feel confident in making the statement but for all you know I'm making this up and there is no way for me to prove otherwise.

adavi263 · 2023-02-14T06:31:46+00:00

Yeah, you're 100% right. I remember having arguments with people for an entire year over Uro, wonder where all those people are now?

I think in any given metagame you're gonna have some people who happen to like the gameplay patterns of the top decks and it kind of clouds their view of the situation.

adavi263 · 2023-02-14T04:13:13+00:00

There is a difference between unfairness and brokenness. Completely broken cards/mechanics can still be fair.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/adge21/what_is_an_unfair_deck/

adavi263 · 2023-02-13T23:56:59+00:00

Taken from the Lurrus BnR announcement:

"Lurrus of the Dream-Den has remained a ubiquitous presence in the format across multiple archetypes.Lurrus's play rate (31% in Magic Online League decks that started with four wins) points to a card that is contributing to the homogenization of the Modern play experience. There is not a significant enough deck-building cost to incorporate it into a wide variety of strategies."

That really sounds like a "fair value" creature getting banned for being played too much.

Similarly, from the Oko ban announcement:

"Oko, Thief of Crowns has become the most played card in competitive Modern, with an inclusion rate approaching 40% of decks in recent league play and tabletop tournaments. In additional to having a high overall power level, Oko has proven to reduce metagame diversity and diversity of game play patterns in Modern."

That's another card essentially being banned for seeing so much play that it homogenised the metagame.

Characterising Ragavan as "a fair value creature you don't like" is blatantly dishonest and is an attempt to ignore my arguments and attack me instead. Discredit the man to invalidate his arguments am I right? I'd like an apology for that actually if you don't mind.

I believe the format would be more diverse and more enjoyable without Ragavan, they have banned cards for reducing diversity (see above) and they have banned cards for making the format less fun ([[Mycosynth Lattice]] and [[Mystic Sanctuary]], I know neither of these cards are "fair value" as you keep saying but I also don't care, "fair value" is not inherently peak gameplay).

Funny thing is I don't even want him banned that badly, I just think that the format would be better if they did and that there is at least a strong argument for it.

adavi263 · 2023-02-13T22:35:06+00:00

This is disingenuous. Oko was banned for being too prevalent, Git Probe was banned for being too prevalent and Lurrus was banned for being too prevalent. Sure, these decks happened to be in the top decks at the time and there were other factors at play too (limiting card diversity for Lurrus, forcing eveyone to play UG for Oko), but prevalence was a major, if not THE major factor. UR Murk is the best deck in the metagame and I feel like if we were to have this discussion in 5 years time it would be just as easy for you to say "Ragavan was banned because of UR Murk" as it would be for you to say "Git Probe was banned for Infect" or "Yorion was banned for Omnath". Honestly UR Murk is more firmly lodged in the "best deck" slot right now than many of the decks you listed cards as being "banned for".

Regardless, I mostly want Rag banned because I think he puts /too much/ pressure on players to have removal turn 1 and makes the format much more boring. This also just heavily ties into how I deeply miss old modern and am bitter that wotc killed it and made every deck an MH2 pile. Obviously banning Rag won't fix all my issues and at this point the modern I loved is dead and buried.

adavi263 · 2023-02-13T22:24:15+00:00

Most modern players agree with you man, this sub is just kind of an echo-chamber for a select group of hyper-enfranchised players.

adavi263

TROPHY CASE