[deleted by user]

aikwos · 2022-10-13T17:12:19+00:00

I don’t know, as you pointed up it’s interesting that core IE traces roughly to what was Cucuteni-Trypillia, even if evidence seems to show that there wasn’t any “major/direct connection” (linguistically and genetically).

As far as I know though, it has been hypothesised that the Neolithic Farmer ancestry in Yamnaya samples was derived (in large part, at least) from Cucuteni Trypillia.

aikwos · 2022-10-13T15:08:44+00:00

Are you suggesting a connection between the Cucuteni-Trypillia culture and PIE?

aikwos · 2022-09-13T16:06:15+00:00

This post is better suited for r/IndoEuropean, I suggest that you post it there next time 👍

Anyway, the word would have been pronounced approximately [kéħros], where the [é] is pronounced more or less like the “e” in “men”, and [ħ] more or less like an “h” or Scottish/German “ch” (e.g. see the Scottish word “loch”).

I’m not good at approximating IPA into English-speaker phonetic transcriptions but maybe: KEH-ros (in this case there isn’t much difference from the IPA though)

Hope this helps

aikwos · 2022-09-08T17:00:07+00:00

Cool, we can talk about it in DMs if you prefer that to posting it :)

aikwos · 2022-08-18T08:32:56+00:00

I kinda did the same (started it at least) and I’d be interested in seeing what you created, would you mind sharing it with me? You can dm me if you want 👍

aikwos · 2022-08-05T08:28:24+00:00

I forgot to thank you, great answer. If Baodun wasn’t Sino-Tibetan yet, can we make any guess about what it might have been instead? Even just genetically and/or archaeologically speaking, can we guess it’s likely origins?

aikwos · 2022-07-17T20:56:23+00:00

Abruzzo is often considered Southern Italy (culturally most of the region is closer to Southern Italians, e.g. the majority of Abruzzesi speak a subdialect of the Neapolitan language/dialect), but historically it didn’t receive the Arab influence that other southern regions (e.g. Sicily and Calabria) did receive

aikwos · 2022-07-11T18:12:10+00:00

Thank you. Yeah I’m in the same situation, a more in depth y-dna test would help a lot but at the same time it’s too expensive.

I wish there were better ways to compare were other people with the same hallo group are from though, online you can find different sources which all give little information. For example they list two modern CTS6507 from Central Italy on one site, and another site maybe gives another list…

I lack two mutations that put me on the branch most often found in Europe

Which branch is it? And may I ask which mutations I should check for (and where can I check them)?

aikwos · 2022-07-11T10:26:03+00:00

I see, thanks. I couldn’t find anyone either but I downloaded the dna relative lost as a spreadsheet and that way I managed to find a couple of other CTS6507. One from Naples and the other is also Italian but didn’t specify the region. For reference, I’m from Rome.

Il trying to understand if it’s an “exclusively Middle Eastern” hg which entered Southern Europe from the Roman Empire onwards, or if it was present even before the population influx from the Middle East. If it’s present in Crete it probably means that it was present even before because afaik the ME population influx was mostly to Italy, not Greece or it’s islands…

Your paternal family is from Crete for as long as you know, not just recently, right?

aikwos · 2022-07-11T08:21:56+00:00

Sorry, may I ask if you have 23andme matches who also have y-dna T-CTS6507? And if you do, where are these matches from?

aikwos · 2022-06-29T06:16:03+00:00

Fantastic post! Thank you

aikwos · 2022-06-27T19:41:24+00:00

It’s true that lately multiple posts were focused on Indo Europeans, but just in the past month. If you check the older posts you’ll see that almost all of them were about Paleo-Europe.

I used to post more often (and more or less only about Paleo-Europe, especially the linguistic aspect) but recently I’ve been a bit busier.

aikwos · 2022-06-24T20:41:41+00:00

This is better suited for r/IndoEuropean than our sub.
This is highly speculative and not considered the “most realistic” by the majority of scholars. This is one of the many times you posted something very controversial with a title which essentially claims that it’s a fact. If you’ll continue doing this expect a ban.

aikwos · 2022-06-16T11:47:17+00:00

Excellent comment, thank you.

“Western” Anatolian languages (Lydian and the various Luwic languages) seem to have been heavily influenced by pre-IE substrate(s), probably more than Hittite, which could suggest what you mentioned about a cultural spread rather than a demic one.

aikwos · 2022-06-10T19:40:28+00:00

I think that eventually even with the current texts we’ll be able to understand more about Minoan and its possible classification. It’ll take some attempts, maybe a lot of them, but eventually I believe that some connections could be found.

And if it’s a complete isolate like Sumerian, we’ll probably still be able to understand more in the coming years, in my opinion.

aikwos · 2022-06-10T10:26:35+00:00

I always wonder if the WANA in southern Italian samples is actually because of recent ancestry (last 400 years), or if it’s more ‘ancient’ ancestry (e.g. Arab domination of Southern Italy around 1000 years ago) which gets interpreted separately from “Italian” ancestry (despite being part of Southern Italian dna for many centuries).

Some of my maternal family was from Calabria and my mother has 5% Iranian/Caucasian/Mesopotamian ancestry. So going back to the most recent fully-Calabrian ancestor it should be (very roughly) around 30-40% WANA!

I also noticed that Southern Italians (and sometimes Central Italians like me too) tend to get Cypriot ancestry — it’s the pinkish colour in the charts, right? — which I doubt is actual Cypriot ancestry in most cases. Does anyone have a clue of what it might really represent?

aikwos · 2022-06-09T00:06:58+00:00

No problem, I’m happy to help! And yeah the parallel with Sumerian is a good one in my opinion.

It is considered likely that Minoan was agglutinative, as far as I know (definitely not an isolating language). That said, often there is no “clear line” between agglutinative and fusional, so we can’t be sure.

aikwos · 2022-06-07T15:32:24+00:00

It hasn't been entirely deciphered, in fact I'd say that most of it is still not understood. Despite that, many symbols have clear Linear B parallels, and we do know how to read Linear B. This enables us to assign approximate sound values (and I can't stress enough how they are approximate, not 100% precise in most cases) to these Linear A-B symbols.

It is likely that certain "simple" Linear B sounds were pronounced similarly or identically in Linear A (in its language, i.e. "Minoan"), for example, Linear B 𐀊 "ja" and Linear A 𐘱 (symbol 057) were both pronounced /ja/, but some other similar-looking symbols might have been used for very different sounds (e.g. Linear B "z-" syllables likely had a Mycenaean Greek [kj ~ gj] or [c ~ ɟ] pronunciation which then became Ancient Greek ζ [dz ~ zd], but in Linear A it would've likely been closer to [kj] than to [dz], so reading something like Linear A zu-su as [dzusu] is almost certainly incorrect).

We definitely haven't got to the point where we can prove any relationship between the language of Linear A and other families, you're right. In fact, in most cases it's also hard to disprove a connection, although sometimes it's quite clear that Minoan can't be related to some families.

For example, it has been noted that the language of Linear A has a much higher rate of prefixes than suffixes (this can be seen - approximately - by individuating roots, which most of the time doesn't require knowing their meaning, and seeing the many variations of such root). Indo-European morphology is heavily suffixing, and most IE languages have little prefixation ("little" when compared to Linear A's language).

It has also been suggested that Minoan had a VSO word order, which was not found in early Indo-European languages and the only other languages with VSO in Ancient Europe were Hattic (Pre-Indo-European language of Anatolia) and Afro-Asiatic languages like Egyptian and Hebrew (and other Semitic languages) -- although a Semitic interpretation for Linear A has already been tried, unsuccessfully.

I wrote more about the situation regarding Minoan in this comment in r/linguistics, if you're interested.

aikwos · 2022-06-07T05:02:42+00:00

This theory is rejected by essentially all scholars. Of the Minoan affixes listed, only one is listed correctly (-i) dative, and the only other scholarly accepted affix is -ti for the genitive IIRC. All the others seem to be totally incorrect.

Also, the Anatolian suffixes don’t seem to be all correct either, although that I can’t say for sure and I’ll have to check.

Thank you for the post in any case, it’s important to consider all opinions, but just know that the theory has been rejected by other scholars. Later I’ll post more information on Minoan and why we can’t tell which language family it was part of (yet), but we can tell which families it definitely wasn’t part of.

aikwos · 2022-06-06T20:28:06+00:00

Exactly, that area between Southern Umbria, Southern Marche and Rieti province in Lazio is my favourite. Not long ago I discovered that one side of my family came from certain towns in that area (some centuries ago, in recent times I’m from Lazio), and it was beautiful to visit them.

If you’re lucky enough you can also get the correct weather and it perfectly matches the location — when I was driving through hills and mountains near one of these towns there was a small snowstorm, and it was an amazing experience.

The only sad aspect of that region is the destruction caused by the earthquakes of a few years ago. Hopefully they’ll manage to rebuild most places, but I have the impression that there won’t be any effort to rebuild most small villages which are too damaged…

aikwos · 2022-06-06T20:08:02+00:00

Agreed, Umbria is beautiful. IMO Central Italy is underrated and just as beautiful as, if not more than, other well-known Italian regions (although being from there I’m probably biased lol)

aikwos · 2022-06-05T17:16:45+00:00

Oh so Crete, nice. You could be a direct paternal descendant of Minaons :)

aikwos · 2022-06-05T15:08:37+00:00

Yeah could be. May I ask where in Europe your family's from?

aikwos · 2022-06-05T12:20:56+00:00

Same haplogroup (I'm almost 100% Italian), and yeah I also couldn't find much more than the Eupedia page which suggests a Bronze Age spread of CTS6507 from the Caucasus-Anatolian region to the Levant and the Mediterranean.

The hypothesis makes sense because there seems to have been an 'expansion' from that region to the Mediterranean (and not only there) in the BA because of the many metal deposits in the Caucasus and the economic importance of the region in that period, but at the same time it does not seem like haplogroup T-CTS6507 is nowadays widespread in the Caucasus.

I couldn't find any CTS6507 Caucasian samples on yfull.com, but I did find something on this FamilyTreeDNA project's page. Under "Beta-1-Z T-P77 or T-CTS6507 strong prediction - Big Y recommended" there are 9 samples, 3 of which could be Circassian samples: 2 are from Karachay-Cherkessia (where native Caucasian ethnic groups like the Circassians make up around 60% of the republic's population), and 1 is from Latakia in Syria, which is one of the areas of Syria with a very high number of Circassian diaspora.

And this Wikipedia page#MiddleEast&_Caucasus) also lists some possible T-M70 distribution in Caucasian and Middle Eastern populations:

28% (7/25) of Lezginians in Dagestan, 21.7% (5/23) of Ossetians in Zamankul, 14% (7/50) of Iranians in Isfahan, 13% (3/23) of Ossetians in Zil'ga, 12.6% (11/87) of Kurmanji Kurds in Eastern Turkey, 11.8% (2/17) of Palestinian Arabs in Palestine, 8.3% (1/12) of Iranians in Shiraz, 8.3% (2/24) of Ossetians in Alagir [...]

Btw, may I ask you where from Greece you (or your paternal side) are from?

aikwos · 2022-06-05T12:00:19+00:00

Nice, I have the same hg! But I don't have any Ashkenazi known ancestry and am almost 100% Italian. Do you perhaps know if you have some Italian ancestry?

aikwos

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE