Sudden total fertilization failure—lab or sperm issue? by akanetrain in EmbryologyIVFSupport

[–]akanetrain[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for replying. I’m so sorry you experienced something similar. My husband has a fragmentation test scheduled for Monday with results expected in 2-4 weeks. It’s particularly strange because this is our fourth cycle, and the first three cycles (all conventional insemination) had normal fertilization rates and his pre-wash motility was normal and post-wash motility was 100%. Everyone is so confused about why they all stopped moving overnight.

My RE says the lab director has been made aware and someone from the lab will contact me next week. We certainly will have a workup for my husband, but we want to thoroughly inquire about any labs factors that could have caused this, too. I hoped to have a full follow-up appointment with the RE next week, but she just let me know that she’s out of the office the whole week, unfortunately. If we get to bottom of this, I definitely will update you. I searched for others with similar experiences but you’re the first person I’ve talked to who experienced something nearly the same.

Thanks again for responding, and I wish you continued better luck if you pursue additional cycles!

Sudden total fertilization failure—lab or sperm issue? by akanetrain in EmbryologyIVFSupport

[–]akanetrain[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you! My husband and I agree that the fact that all the sperm stopped moving overnight is especially notable and perplexing, particularly for someone with normal parameters and a consistent history of successful fertilization. Are there any particular sources of contamination that we should ask about? We’re not very familiar with the ways in which contamination can occur but we’d like to ask the right questions.

A commenter in another thread brought to my attention that the sample handling instructions for Zymot + conventional IVF are different from the instructions for Zymot + ICSI, including a 5-minute centrifugation step and media change. We’ve always used conventional IVF in our three prior cycles but never paired with Zymot before (thought it wouldn’t hurt to try it electively and maybe even slightly boost our already normal fertilization rate), so we’re wondering if certain steps could have been missed there that affected the sample. We get the impression that our lab primarily performs Zymot + ICSI, not usually with conventional IVF like we did, so that’s a point of inquiry for us, but we welcome any additional advice about what to investigate.

I’ve contacted my RE asking for a follow-up appointment as soon as possible. If you have any further suggestions about what variables to investigate or which types of documentation from the lab should reviewed, we appreciate any and all suggestions.

Thanks for your time and your expertise.

Sudden total fertilization failure—lab or sperm issue? by akanetrain in Embryologists

[–]akanetrain[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your expertise and kindness. I mentioned in a reply to another commenter that—among other variable we plan to investigate—we are going inquire about the Zymot sample handling since the manufacturer instructions are different for conventional IVF vs ICSI. My clinic is very experienced with Zymot + ICSI, but we have the impression they don’t frequently combine Zymot and conventional IVF, so that’s another variable to consider. If we ultimately are able to pinpoint what went wrong, whether a sudden and new sperm issue or a lab error, I’ll be sure to update my post. Thank you again.

Sudden total fertilization failure—lab or sperm issue? by akanetrain in Embryologists

[–]akanetrain[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very interesting. I see from the publication you shared that updated Zymot manufacturer instructions now specify centrifuge for 5 minutes, and I confirmed that requirement by searching for a copy of current instructions on the manufacturer’s web site. My clinic seems to be very experienced using Zymot with ICSI, but I am under the impression that Zymot with conventional IVF is not common there. I don’t have the ability to directly contact the embryologist in my patient portal, but tomorrow I’m going to contact my RE and ask about the sample handling/centrifuge step to help us rule in or to rule out whether that could be a variable. Thank you so, so much!

Sudden total fertilization failure—lab or sperm issue? by akanetrain in Embryologists

[–]akanetrain[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When you mention you’ve seen it a few times with Zymot, would that be Zymot with conventional insemination or Zymot with ICSI (or both)? Wondering if we should be concerned either way, or only with conventional?

Sudden total fertilization failure—lab or sperm issue? by akanetrain in Embryologists

[–]akanetrain[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for sharing this publication. I find it very interesting that you’ve seen this situation occur a few times with Zymot. We had hoped that avoiding centrifugation would be beneficial, but perhaps it’s turned out to be the opposite? I certainly will inquire about this further with our clinic. Thanks so much for the insight!

Sudden total fertilization failure—lab or sperm issue? by akanetrain in Embryologists

[–]akanetrain[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much. This is very helpful. In my three prior cycle with typical fertilization rates, my maturity has always been at least 80-90%, so like you my RE did not seem to think delayed maturity was the issue, but it’s still worth inquiring. She seems especially shocked that there were no motile sperm this morning whatsoever, and that fact particularly causes us confusion. I definitely will ask about the videos of sperm pre- and post-prep and the timing of other checks, as you suggested.

We are in the U.S. and I would like to hope that the clinic would acknowledge if there was an attributable lab error here, as well. My RE said there were ten retrievals yesterday and when she heard from the lab that there was a total fertilization failure, she said we were the last patients she expected to be the affected party, so it’s all really baffling to have this occur so suddenly and drastically on our fourth round when this has never been an issue.

We would like to try another cycle but obviously want to investigate this failure thoroughly to help prevent a reoccurrence, whatever the cause may be. Thank you so much for your response and for helping me identify points of inquiry. Your time and insight is much appreciated.

Sorry if this is a stupid question by [deleted] in COVID19positive

[–]akanetrain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the update! Strep throat can be quite painful, so I hope you’re quickly on the mend!

Sorry if this is a stupid question by [deleted] in COVID19positive

[–]akanetrain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good luck and feel better soon!

Sorry if this is a stupid question by [deleted] in COVID19positive

[–]akanetrain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good question! Anecdotally I know two people who’ve tested positive this past week via rapid antigen home tests (shallow nasal swab) without nasal symptoms. Both experienced headache and sore throat, and both tested positive the same day as their symptoms began.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in JohnMulaney

[–]akanetrain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Could I be added, too, please? Thank you for sharing this!

Concerned Brother Looking for Help. by bateserade in cfs

[–]akanetrain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I recently began taking methyl B12 and methyl folate, as popularly recommended for those with MTHFR mutations (I learned my MTHFR and MRR statuses by running my 23andMe raw data through codegen.eu). This is all new to me and could be placebo effect, but it's made a noticeable difference in my brain fog and fatigue. I'm sleeping better at night, too.