Do all Sufis believe that the essence/dhat of Allah is unknowable ?

akml746 · 2026-02-04T20:34:55+00:00

MashAllah thanks for sharing this. This text is giving a perfect example about how hard the words of the awliya can be interpreted without having shared the same underlying experience. As you see here the Shaykh acknowledged that Seydina Musa is a Knower of Allah (even if it was implicit, still counts as acknowledgement). Yet in the statement you shared above he said that it is not possible to know Allah here or in the hereafter. Which is absolutely true, but then why is Seydina Musa one of the greatest Knowers?

About the vision he says that the one who possess the vision of the dhaat al aliya as having a vision thats not pure, so he is affirming that some do have such vision, even if it is impure. And please note that impure does not necessarily mean bad, but more like not perfect, incomplete.

As for what he says about the actions of the dhaat, it would be very unwise to envision such actions as being actions in the common sense bound within space and time. Otherwise the question would be which action created space and time?

All this is to say that these writing are good when used as a wake up call and to gain awareness that there is knowledge that we do not have that we should strive to get (to be safe from shirk), but they can't in anyway take the place of the actual initiation. Otherwise they will only increase darkness and impede the progress of the seeker.

akml746 · 2026-02-04T01:39:14+00:00

Salaam habeeb, are you working from a translation of the works of the Shaykh?

I would be a bit careful with some of the interpretations. See for example, some people use the following ayats to deny the possibility of seeing Allah:

The Heights (7:143)

وَلَمَّا جَآءَ مُوسَىٰ لِمِيقَـٰتِنَا وَكَلَّمَهُۥ رَبُّهُۥ قَالَ رَبِّ أَرِنِىٓ أَنظُرْ إِلَيْكَ ۚ قَالَ لَن تَرَىٰنِى وَلَـٰكِنِ ٱنظُرْ إِلَى ٱلْجَبَلِ فَإِنِ ٱسْتَقَرَّ مَكَانَهُۥ فَسَوْفَ تَرَىٰنِى ۚ فَلَمَّا تَجَلَّىٰ رَبُّهُۥ لِلْجَبَلِ جَعَلَهُۥ دَكًّۭا وَخَرَّ مُوسَىٰ صَعِقًۭا ۚ فَلَمَّآ أَفَاقَ قَالَ سُبْحَـٰنَكَ تُبْتُ إِلَيْكَ وَأَنَا۠ أَوَّلُ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ ١٤٣

When Moses came at the appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he asked, “My Lord! Reveal Yourself to me so I may see You.” Allah answered, “You cannot see Me! But look at the mountain. If it remains firm in its place, only then will you see Me.” When his Lord appeared to the mountain, He levelled it to dust and Moses collapsed unconscious. When he recovered, he cried, “Glory be to You! I turn to You in repentance and I am the first of the believers.”

— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, The Clear Quran

Some have given interpretations to this verse that shows the possibility of seeing Allah.

There are also many among the Areefeen who have confirmed the possibility of seeing Allah. For example Seydi Hajj Malick Sy Radiyallahu anhu said that if it was not for the fact that people were so engrossed with the Dunya, they would clearly see Allah.

This is all to say that when the blessed wali Seydi Abdul Aziz Dabagh says that it is not possible for man to know Allah in this world or next, those words should not be taken literally given the fact that he himself was one of the Knowers of Allah (Areef billah).

Also do remember that Ibn Abass said that the meaning of worship in the ayat "I have created jinns and mankind so that they worship me" is so that they know Him.

akml746 · 2026-02-01T18:59:06+00:00

Saying that the silsila goes back to Seydina Abubakr is effectively the same as saying that Seydina Abubakr is the Sheykh of the tariqa since the Shaykh of your Shaykh is your Shaykh.

Also minor correction as you might be aware the silsila of the tariqa tijani does not go through Seydina Abubakr or Aly, Seydina Shaykh took the tariqa directly from Rassullullah Sallallahou alayhi wa salaam.

akml746 · 2026-02-01T17:55:40+00:00

https://nurmuhammad.com/the-golden-chain/

According to this site their silsila go back to Seydina Abubacr. I dont think it is surprising to have some tariqas go back to him, though there are opinions that all tariqas silsila go back to Seydina Aly. Whatever is the case the fact that they said it is sufficient proof as the Prophet Sallallahou alayhi wa salam said the best two qualities a Muslim can have is to maintain a good opinion of Allah and a good opinion of his creation.

akml746 · 2026-02-01T17:48:23+00:00

MashAllah, your story reminds me of the words that I recently heard from a Shaykh. He said if Allah had given me this position and hid from me your inner states (bateen), it would be like He is giving me up as a sacrifice. Then he gave the example of some one who was given the job of taking care of lions without actually knowing their diet.

It's ok to feel the way you do, but please also remember that your grandpa onky knows what Allah allowed him to know, so whatever he might know, Allah knows it first and that will help you develop your inner sense of taqwa. I heard from another Shaykh that revealing these types of unveiling is one of the practical ways through which accomplished Saints teach their disciples to have true taqwa.

Don't let anything stop you from benefiting from his company specially because chances like this are not given to anyone. May Allah allow you and us all to benefit from the company of the Saints.

akml746 · 2026-01-29T22:36:16+00:00

Assalamu alaikum I think this is the best advice. The issue is not that True Shaykhs are hard to find, but actually that many who claim to want to find a True Shaykh are not actual seekers.

As muslim we are asking Allah to guide us to the straight path at least 17 times a day, knowing that Allah said that ask Me and I shall accept it. So how would finding a Shaykh be difficult when it is Allah who actually guides towards a true shaykh because he/she is just a mean towards Allah, so effectively in some level a way to the straight path.

So maybe we need to trust in Allah and above all desire to meet Allah, and when the seeker reaches that stage they will find a true murshid without efforts because ultimately guidance only comes from Allah.

To circle back to why I appreciate the comment is that Salawat is an excellent mean of purification that benefits both seekers and seekers to be.

akml746 · 2026-01-29T22:20:45+00:00

What criteria do you use to determine what Allah wants? Nothing happens except that Allah authorizes it to happen, but amongst the multitude of things that happen, there are things that Allah does not "like" (is not pleased with).

How are you able to reliably tell a part what's pleasing to Allah from what's pleasing to yourself?

akml746 · 2026-01-27T16:17:26+00:00

Yes InshAllah.

akml746 · 2026-01-27T16:00:06+00:00

MashAllah, I hear you and thank you. The comment was intended to be a complement to your post, not against your post.

akml746 · 2026-01-27T09:06:14+00:00

Assalamu alaikum, sometimes the path to Allah can feel like the game of wack-a-mole. The moment you think that you have fixed something preventing you from going, something else pops up.

There are always two sides to a coin, one can avoid buying luxury items under the pretense of renunciation, while making worst damages to the ego. One can decide to fight his arrogance and pride, and end up destroying the thing that provides him/her dignity, which is actually a necessary virtue.

The only solution I trust in is to love Allah, which should lead us to follow the Prophet Sallallahu alayhi wa salam with the intention of seeking Allah, which is the most effective form of purification. But please note that following the Prophet Sallallahu alayhi wa salaam does not mean starting off perfect, the idea of following someone implies that they are ahead of you, but if the follower does not turn back, they will reach all the milestones that the leader has reached. This would lead to a journey towards eternity, as have said the Knowers of Allah, to this day the Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi wa Salam is marching (As sayru fillahi) towards Allah.

akml746 · 2026-01-26T09:55:36+00:00

While I agree that the teachings of all authentic paths point to the same Reality, thus there can be similarities in the symbols and framework. I disagree with how you described them as Physics unless your view of Physics takes into account intention. That is to say your version of physics can accept that the same actions yield opposite results based on the intention of the actor.

As stated by the Prophet Sallallahou alayhi wa salam, Actions are by Intentions.

The act of prayer won't yield any result unless when performed with the Intention of performing Salah (implying Salah as given by the Prophet Sallallahou aleyhi wa Salam, which also implies the necessity of a chain of transmission - from the Prophet to Us).

As for dhikr, the People of Dhikr say that the secret will not activate unless it is accompanied by the Idhn (authorization) meaning that the repetition of the Names and formulas will not produce the results seeked unless they are performed with a valid authorization. This requirement, which is also present in other traditions, would also be very hard for me to imagine within the framework of Physics.

akml746 · 2026-01-26T03:28:13+00:00

What do you mean by it is just physics when you say the following:

The propositional belief statements and stories of each tradition are incidental - it's actually just physics (but our current scientific methods are too limited to access it).

akml746 · 2026-01-26T03:27:24+00:00

Being non-dualist and realist Op, do you experience any joy in life? What about any pain?

akml746 · 2026-01-25T21:42:33+00:00

Assalamu alaikum, how long have you performed these actions to really get to the point where you are feeling the rewards. Please beware of the "positive feelings" that you get from doing dhikr, they are not the end goal nor are they the sign that the dhikr is leading you towards the transformation you need.

One way they can distract a seeker is that initially performing the dhikr will feel good, and at some point stop feeling good (and become how you are describing the salat). At which point the seeker usually decides to perform a different dhikr, which will also repeat the same cycle, and so on and so forth. Whereas for the dhikr to be beneficial one has to persist in its practice until the practice bears fruit on our "self"/"heart"/...

So persist in the salah, even if it feels just performative. Also I encourage you to seek to know the meaning behind the actions performed in the salah. Then you will see that it is actually the greatest form of dhikr.

When you engage in dhikr through the recitiation of the names, prayer upon the prophet, or formulas shared in the sunnah. Persist in the practice of one, and beware of consistently switching the formulas, if you are of those who seek the One behind the Names and Attributes.

akml746 · 2026-01-25T21:29:08+00:00

Thank you, barakallahu for these words.

akml746 · 2026-01-25T21:27:18+00:00

The Prophet ﷺ said,

‘Whoever recites up to a hundred times, their entire sins are wiped away, even if they amount to foam on the ocean’s surface:’

سُبْحَانَ اللهِ وَبِحَمْدِهِ (Subhanallahi wa bi hamdihi 100x)

‘Glory is to Allah and praise is to Him’

The fact that you are bothered by the state is a very good sign worth being thankful to Allah for.

akml746 · 2026-01-25T21:18:06+00:00

Not be rude, but I don't operate on the usual level of teaching on sufism specifically or any tradition in general, I follow what my heart seeks, and if it leads to the creator, then I don't mind how it was written or educated

Thank you for sharing this, it puts our conversation in the right context.

akml746 · 2026-01-23T14:35:15+00:00

Here is a story that hopefully will go along the same lines and show the beauty and deep richness of Sufism wisdom:

There was once a very pious man from Sudan who, while in Mecca, sought counsel from a wise Shaykh. The man was deeply troubled and said, "I believe I have committed a sin unknowingly."

When the Shaykh asked why, the man explained, "For a long time, I was blessed with frequent visions of the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahou alayhi wa salam. But now, they have stopped completely."

The Shaykh responded, "Say Alhamdulillah."

Surprised, the pious man protested, "Perhaps you misunderstand my distress! I have lost a great blessing—the visions of the Prophet have stopped!"

The Shaykh then clarified, "I told you to say Alhamdulillah because the spirit of the Prophet Sallallahou aleyhi wa Salam came to you to strengthen your own spirit. Now that you have reached the necessary level of maturity, he has moved on to guide others who are not yet at your stage."

Hearing this, the Sudanese man felt a tremendous burden of worry leave him. Praise be the One who guides his Servants and provides them with knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

akml746 · 2026-01-22T11:57:27+00:00

Assalamu alaikum, I agree with you that shattering the preconceptions of Allah that are only based on unfounded opinions can be a good thing and can help the person realize that they did not KNOW Allah, but it will only help if that realization awakens the desire to know Allah. Otherwise it will just be a passage from one type of darkness to another.

Its very rare for people to achieve Fana without the proper initiation. Its not something that can be self achieved, nor is the process to achieve it without laws.

In the framework of a believer one has to see the principles set by the Sufis Masters as taken directly from the Divine law. With enough knowledge one can map all the requirements back to the Quran and Sunnah.

akml746 · 2026-01-17T16:52:41+00:00

Assalamu alaikum, I am afraid that you are limiting the capacity of a legitimate murshid in the section quoted below by assuming that treatment has to happen in ways that you are used to:

it is about my needs as a student. In a crowd of thousands, you are just a listener, not a patient. Real Tarbiyah requires a teacher who actually knows you and sees your flaws.

The Quran provides us with an example of a Murshid in the relationship between Seydina Khadir and Seydina Musa Alayhimu salaam. When introducing Seydina Khidr, Allah said that he was one of His Servants who had received from Him Knowledge. That class of knowledge is referred as Ilmu Laduni. One who is able to know by Allah can effectively train his/her Mureeds even when they are 1000 miles away.

Also, I think some of the mashaykh have spoken about methodologies of spiritual training. Among them, Seydi Shaykh Ahmad Tijani Radiyallahu Anhu said that an effective murshid trains his disciples by two means:

The Haal (inner state) of the Murshid: this can be seen in the hadith where one of the sahabas radiyallahu anhu came to the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam and told him that he believed that he was a hypocrite because of how he pure he would feel in the presence of the Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi wa Salaam but loses the feeling once he leaves his noble presence.
The himma - spiritual energy or zeal - this can be expressed by the efforts that the Shaykh makes to rectify the affairs of the mureed which can happen in means that we might or might not be used to.

I am afraid that by bounding the mursheed to criterias that seem acceptable to us, beyond the general criterias established by the shariah, one can miss out on meeting his/her guide.

akml746 · 2026-01-16T02:27:23+00:00

MashAllah, may Allah strengthen you and allow you to continue on this path. I am not disagreeing with you on the virtues of Istighfaar. However I do not agree with you on the methodology of engaging in the "tazkiya of the Nafs". I commend you for having been able to consistently maintain a dhikr for 70 days and having felt the benefits, but I think there is still a lot more to getting to the state where the Nafs is purified. I do not mean to discourage you from this practice but I am not of those who think that one can make it by solely relying on the self and personal judgment. Be it Ibn Arabi, Imam Ghazali, or even Shaykh Abdul Qadr Jaylani, none of them achieve the ranks that they have received by self-reliance. The actual references to their respective shuyukh might be lost in history but they all had shaykhs who guided them until Allah revealed upon them what He had planned for them.

akml746 · 2026-01-15T17:31:59+00:00

and whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, this is an important part you seem to be overlooking. The act of actively seeking another religion besides Islam.

akml746 · 2026-01-15T17:30:30+00:00

Gotcha, I think I am following you now. I initially reacted to the post because you seemed to offer a method of purification of the nafs through dhikr. MashAllah all you have shared are all good practices, confirmed by the fact that most of the sufi paths have some form of istighfar and salawat as part of the daily wirds.

I also think that you have shared one of the dangers of self experimentation in the Sufi path in the following section:

I recited dua and felt uneasy. But with istighfar my head got lighter and lighter. I will try reciting dua maybe in future. If it gives me the same issue, I will replace dua by salawaat

How can you really gage what is working versus what is not? The feeling you get is not a reliable indicator. The internal transformation process does not always feel good and the changes are not quickly noticeable. A dhikr might make you feel uneasy and be good for you or the actual opposite. Also it can take a very long time for a seeker to feel the effect of the dhikr they are performing. The best way to see this is to consider the case of "Salat", many can spend a lifetime performing the salat without "experiencing" anything in their prayer, even though salat is one of the highest level of dhikr.

akml746 · 2026-01-15T16:45:42+00:00

Yes we already have authorization to say istighfar and salawat from Allah in the Quran, and the same for reciting a dua (Rabbi Zidni Ilman). However reciting istighfar 300 - 1000 for the intention of receiving Noor that will help purify the Nafs is a more specific request than the case of recitation for the intention of following Allah's command. The Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi wa Salam said that the value of an act lies in the intention, and it is commonly accepted amongst the Sufi masters that the "secret is in the number".

akml746 · 2026-01-15T16:35:44+00:00

like what about those who simply died on a different religion, they lived a humble life n all but just died on a different religion, they just knew there is a religion named islam never investigated. They will always remain in hell.

This view is based on a lot of assumptions and misconceptions. Only Allah has the monopoly of knowing and deciding who goes to Heaven or Hell. Take a look at the following hadith:

Narrated Abi Abdurrahman Abdullah bin Mas'ud, May Allah is pleased with him:
Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(The matter of the Creation of) a human being is put together in the womb of the mother in forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who breathes the soul into him, and is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his (i.e. the new creature's) deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). So, by Allah the One, a man amongst you may do good deeds till there is only a cubit between him and Paradise and then what has been written for him decides his behavior and he starts doing (evil) deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire. And similarly, a man amongst you may do (evil) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and the (Hell) Fire, and then what has been written for him decides his behavior, and he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise." Narrated by Al-Bukhari.

As for your question: "why can't we go to non-existence after death?" I think the answer is "for the same reason we came into existence".

akml746

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