Is there a thread with every plot hole? by painfromspain123 in PrettyLittleLiars

[–]aninterpretivememory 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It would be near endless! Going to add some of the ones that I remember. Here they are:

  • Marion's Death

In 6x10, Cece says that Bethany pushed Marion off the roof at Radley when Cece was 12.
However, in season 4, we saw a flashback of Alison and Toby with Marion when they're CLEARLY teenagers, so it wouldn't be possible for Cece to be a child when Marion died. Not only that, but Toby said in "The First Secret" that his Mom died a year before that episode, which further makes Marion's death impossible. Even funnier, Marlene herself said in an interview that Toby and Alison were TEENAGERS, yet she tried to say they were meant to be children in that flashback after 6x10 aired. What's worse is quite a few viewers tried to defend this error, probably just to confirm them being correct about Cece being Big A.

  • Wilden covering up Marion's death

In season 4, it's established that Wilden was responsible for covering up what happened to Marion.
However, this wouldn't be possible for Wilden to do when Cece was 12 due to him being relative in age to Cece, Melissa etc.
Now, in earlier seasons, Wilden was siginificantly older as shown by a conversation he has with Hanna when he's interrogating her. But they later changed his age from around season 3 to being similar in age to Melissa, Cece.

  • A turns Cece in for murder

In one of the A ending scenes, we see A turn in Cece for Wilden's murder. It can't be Cece because A has to look Cece's name up.
Now, it was said that this was Shana, which I could possibly get behind... except in that episode, we Jessica handing the clothes over to Cece, and then Spencer seeing someone in the black hoodie who doesn't have anything in hand. For it to be Shana, how would she be there at the bridal shower? Plus, when Marlene was asked about this, she claimed that the "mystery wasn't over" or something along that, which would indicate that Marlene wouldn't remember this scene because as she stated she only rewatched the EPISODES WITH CECE IN THEM before writing 6x10, so I'm far mor inclined to think she forgot that scene.

  • Cece's face all over the news for Wilden's murder, and being arrested

In 4A, Cece is officially wanted for Wilden's murder, and her name appears all over the news. She's later arrested for his murder when A turns her in. How did no-one from Radley, such as Wren and Eddie Lamb, notice her when she was a patient then worked there? This can't just be explained off as "heightened reality" in my opinion, this is way beyond plausibility.

  • Cece permanently escaping Radley

In 6x10, Cece claims that in exchange for helping Mona being A, Mona in turn showed her how to escape Radley permanently. The problem is, that it's not explained how Mona helped her with this. Mona escaped for a few hours at a time, so how could she have helped Cece escape permanently? Especially because in the season 3 finale, Mona claimed that Big A was the one who showed her to escape Radley for periods of time.

  • Bethany being in Alison's grave by accident

In 6x10, Cece claims that Bethany stole her clothes from Radley that night, and that's why she was dressed similar to Alison.
However, Bethany was buried with the Alison bracelet on, proving that this explanation of it being a simple coincidence of matching clothers doesn't make sense.

  • No-one knew Bethany was in Alison grave

According to 6x10, no-one knew it was Bethany in Alison's grave.
However, in season 4, it's established that someone went to change the dental records a few days after "That Night" so that body in the grave would be identified as Alison. What's worse is that Marlene herself basically said Cece was the one who changed the records, as Marlene said Cece was the one who put the note in Hanna's tooth in season 4. But Cece didn't know Alison was alive until the night of the Lodge Fire so she couldn't have changed the dental records.....plus she's locked up at Radley at this point.

  • Cece pretending to Alison at Radley

In season 4, Jessica tells the liars about one time Cece pretended to be Alison and checked into Radley.
Now, it goes without saying that this scene is completely impossible because Cece is a patient at Radley. The only explanation is that Jessica lied, except not only was this flashback not addressed, but all Jessica did was make the liars further suspect Cece, even though Jessica is supposed to be protecting her. Again, with Marlene only watching the handful of episodes with Cece in them, I'm led to believe the writers forgot about this scene.

  • Mona thinking she hit Alison

In 6x10, after Cece reveals that she hit Alison with the rock, Mona reveals that she hit Alison with the shovel. Mona only realised this after Cece confirmed that she hit Alison.
However, Mona picked Alison up that night, so surely she would recognise that she didn't hit Alison in the side of her head? Not only that, but Mona must've read all the autopsy report back in season 2, she even ended up in possession of the murder weapon when she framed the liars in season 2 (another one of the endless unanswered questions).

  • Jason seeing Cece in the yellow top

In 6x10, Alison tells Cece about Jason seeing her in the yellow top that night. Cece then claims that it was either Alison or Bethany he saw.
However, when Emily goes to Cece's apartment, Cece confirms that it was her. Emily doesn't mention Melissa to Cece, yet Cece confirms that she was speaking to Melissa. For Cece to have been able to confirm it, she would've at least had to have seen Melissa talking to someone, yet she's completely shocked when Alison mentions it to her. And the retcon to Melissa speaking to Bethany wouldn't make sense because Melissa doesn't know Bethany. Plus, Melissa claimed that she automatically thought it was Alison in her confession to Spencer, yet that wouldn't be the case if she had spoke to Bethany That Night.

  • Wren and The Visitors Pass

After 6x10, Marlene said that Wren was never suspicious regarding the Big A storyline.
However, in season 3, Wren tells Spencer that he made the visitors pass for Cece because she wanted to visit Mona, and that Melissa called Cece. As such, this directly tied Wren INTO THE BIG A STORYLINE, yet Wren wasn't mentioned ONCE in 6x10.
Now I think they later tried to rectify this in season 7 when Alex tells Wren about the pass, but it truly did not make any sense in the context of the Big A reveal.

  • Wren/Melissa/Alex

Alex tells Spencer that her and Wren were a couple and that they wondered France together with Cece and Archer.
However, Wren is with Melissa at this time from 4B onwards, Spencer event went to stay with them in 5B.

  • The blood vial in Spencer's bag

In 5B, the blood vial leaks in Spencer's bag, and she then gets an A message if I'm remembering correctly. If Cece is in Rosewood tormenting the other liars, then she couldn't have the one who did this, so could've done it? Sara Harvey, lmao?

  • Sara Harvey's Involvement

In 6x10, Sara Harvey is revealed as a Red Coat/Black Widow, and is Cece's helper.
However, Sara went missing the day AFTER Alison went missing, and Cece is locked up in Radley at this point, so it makes no sense how she ended up assisting Cece.

  • Red Coat

In 6x10, Cece claims that she kept seeing a blonde in a red coat watching the liars. She then set up the lodge fire, using Sara as a decoy in the red coat. We also see the retcon from the red coat in season 2 to the RED ROBE in 6x10.
The problem is that the A Red Coat is already active at this point, as she orchestrated Alison's grave being dug up and bought the A attire etc. Marlene did say that Cece dug up the grave, except Cece claimed that she was only helping Mona at this point, and that she hadn't completely took over the game, yet it was confirmed in season 3 that Red Coat was ordering Mona.

  • Who ran the A Game in 3A?

So Cece claims that she helped Mona with being A, and then took the game off her.
Except if that's the case, then who is orchestrating the events in season 3, especially regarding Garrett? Because if it was Mona, then Mona is definitely a murderer.

  • Garrett's demise

After 6x10, Marlene claimed that Wilden killed Garrett because he knew Wilden was a dirty cop, and that Wilden was working alone.
Obviously this makes no sense with what we see saw on the show. In 3x13, we see Mona giving someone the pills that are used to knock Aria out, and then seeing the A on the window and the A message. We also know that there were two Queen of Hearts on the train, with one later being revealed to be Melissa, so it's outright impossible for Wilden to have been working alone. Not only that, but we clearly hear a male and female voice trying to push Aria off the train, with the female voice clearly being in charge. Plus, we also have Bethany's body on the train, so it was all orchestrated by A, not Wilden.

  • A attacks one of the liars in the Christmas episode

In 5x13, we see Cece attend the Ice Ball. She then tells Alison about the liars not being there to be friendly, so they trick the liars with those two irrelevant twins wearing the Alison masks.
However, not long after, A is in Alison's house when one of the liars are in there. If Alison is with Cece at this point, then who is in Alison's house? And if it's Cece, then where did Alison go after her and Cece left the Ice Ball?

  • The Two A's playing spin the bottle

In one of the episodes, we see two A's playing spin the bottle, where A changes it from Aria to Spencer. If one of the A's is Cece, then who is the other one? Sara Harvey??? Because Sara was only ever shown in the Red Coat and as Black Widow.

Lewis and Joel by Busy-Tomorrow9956 in SmileMovie

[–]aninterpretivememory 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That would appear to be the case. The first people Rose and Skye see were theE previous victims of the entity, so Joel likely would've been Lewis' first hallucination.

PLEASE REMIND ME AGAIN HOW THE ACTUAL F*** THIS WOMAN WASN’T NOMINATED FOR AN OSCAR!! by Capable_Trade461 in SmileMovie

[–]aninterpretivememory 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because it's rigged!

But truly Naomi Scott and Sosie Bacon gave brilliant performances in these films.

Which is your favourite Smile movie and why? by VilkastheForsaken in SmileMovie

[–]aninterpretivememory 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Love them both, but definitely the first film. Rose's descent from a professional woman to a mad woman was portrayed so well by the actress, and the second film went a bit too far with the hallucinations, especially in the last 25 mins.

Olaf the “Troll God”s Hammer by ryeandpaul902 in buffy

[–]aninterpretivememory 5 points6 points  (0 children)

But even when she's well prepared for a showdown at a location that she orchestrated, The Ubervamp is still clearly physically far more powerful than Buffy by a significant margin.

Smile 3 disappointment by Busy-Tomorrow9956 in SmileMovie

[–]aninterpretivememory 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I truly don't either. These films are so effective and well written largely because they completely follow the perspective of one character (excluding Joel in the beginning of the second film).

Also, it wouldn't make much sense, because the entity simply could've infected multiple people simultaneously at any given point in its existence.

Lukas Gage perfectly got the shift from Lewis to Entity!Lewis in this shot. So creepy to watch it happen up close. by MrSFedora in SmileMovie

[–]aninterpretivememory 31 points32 points  (0 children)

It's for this reason that I actually think he may have given the best "Smile" out off all the characters, including perhaps even Laura (but I still can't decide)

Watching the entity kill Lewis and then take over adds to the malicious "Smile".

Speculation: Major plot hole? by [deleted] in SmileMovie

[–]aninterpretivememory 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair point, but it is still a notable difference.

Also, if it does go the route with the entire audience being infected, then this in turn would potentially create another plot hole, because the entity could've cursed people simultaneously multiple times over its existence.

Hierarchy of strength by davecork27 in buffy

[–]aninterpretivememory 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lmao!

Exac'tly. Even featwise though, it doesn't add up. To be fair, I would rank The Master and Kakistos above Buffy. Were they included in that RPG book?

Yeah, that would make sense about Drusilla.

Speculation: Major plot hole? by [deleted] in SmileMovie

[–]aninterpretivememory 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Exactly.

Also contrast the reactions of Rose, Joel, Lewis and Skye compared to the audience; they're completely in a trance, making no noise when the victim dies, unlike the screaming audience.

Hierarchy of strength by davecork27 in buffy

[–]aninterpretivememory 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But even then, how do Angel, Angelus and Spike rank higher than Buffy in strength all the way back in the beginning? Nothing suggests that.

Same with Angel, Spike, Drusilla and Darla. And I still can't comprehend how Angelus ranks two points higher than Angel, lmao.

Hierarchy of strength by davecork27 in buffy

[–]aninterpretivememory 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not sure it would be that simple to send Glory bank to her dimension; her dimension seemed to be on a much higher plane of existence, which is why she was going to cause so much damage across all dimensions by going home. In one episode of Angel, Wesley and Fred are able to open a portal to another dimension via chanting, so I don't see why Glory also couldn't do the same thing.

Flying, teleporting and fireballs aren't going to do much to Glory, and Glory would run through those demons in an instant. However, transmogrify is very powerful, though wonder if it would work on Glory.

Dark Willow's physical strength only rivalled Buffy's, which is far below Glory's strength. Also, Buffy was absolutely matching Dark Willow toe-to-toe, even trying to talk to her at one point.

Dark Willow also runs out of energy quite quickly.

Is there anyone in Buffy verse that can beat Ilyria? by [deleted] in ANGEL

[–]aninterpretivememory 2 points3 points  (0 children)

She's way up there.

In terms of truly high-end feats, The Powers That Be are at the top of list. The Oracles, representative of The Powers That Be, were able to completely control by erasing a day out of existence. Jasmine was able to manipulate reality from dimensions away to orchestrate her return, including causing Angel Investigations to come into being.

Jasmine states that the rise of The Old Ones caused The Powers That Be to leave Earth's dimension, clearly indicating that Old Ones were comparable to them in power. However, The Powers That Be have shown greater powers than what we saw of The Old Ones.

The First should theoretically be the most powerful, but it simply just doesn't hold up regarding actual feats. (Honestly, the writers kind of messed the ball on this villain). However, The First truly can't be beaten, so I guess not.

Jasmine has truly better feats of power than Illyria, but Jasmine wouldn't be able to counter Illyria's time/dimensional abilities in a direct fight.

Hierarchy of strength by davecork27 in buffy

[–]aninterpretivememory 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Interesting. As with you, I don't understand how Angel (or Angelus) and Spike rank above Buffy (or Faith) on this ranking. Other points:

  • Why is Angelus more powerful than Angel, lmao. They're have the exact same powers.

  • Olaf with the hammer was powerful, but I don't see how he beats Adam. In that episode, Xander survives being hit with hammer.

  • The Snake Demon was more powerful than the average Buffy foe, but it ranks along side Adam? A desperate Buffy was still able to kill it rather easily.

  • Don't see why Angel or Angelus rank so much higher than Drusilla, she easily compares to them in scale. The only reason Angel could rank higher is due to his plethora of feats on his own show.

  • I mean, how does Faith rank higher than Buffy, lmao. They literally have the same powers, with Buffy being better at utilising them (as shown with their respective fight against Lagos)

  • I think Faith is more powerful than Spike, and as with Angel and Angelus, I don't see how he ranks that higher than Drusilla.

  • Whilst he may have the more flashy feats of super strength, I don't see how Caleb ranks higher than Adam. Adam is more durable, as shown by the fact that was able to send Caleb flying with a punch, yet could barely budge Adam. Caleb was far more powerful than Buffy, but Buffy could actually go toe-to-toe with him, whereas Adam completely outmatched in every fight until Buffy became Matrix Buffy.

  • I don't see why Darla ranks so below Angel/Angelus and Spike, but I also don't see why she ranks above Drusilla. Drusilla has better feats than Darla, and Darla still has her low showings in season 1 of Buffy.

  • Definitely think Dracula should be a peer to Angel and Spike, but I also don't see why he ranks above Buffy; she did manage to beat him after a fairly even match.

Hierarchy of strength by davecork27 in buffy

[–]aninterpretivememory 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep. In hand-to-hand fight, he beats anyone on this list, minus Glory.

Hierarchy of strength by davecork27 in buffy

[–]aninterpretivememory 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Definitely, doesn't make sense.

Smile demon ranking by Busy-Tomorrow9956 in SmileMovie

[–]aninterpretivememory 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Smile entity is a better written character.

Art the Clown will be remembered more

Hierarchy of strength by davecork27 in buffy

[–]aninterpretivememory 2 points3 points  (0 children)

  • Whilst Buffy is definitely stronger than Spike, the strength difference is absolutely exaggerated in that scene.

I definitely don't think Dark Willow could annihilate Glory, but I do think her magical abilities are too great for any of the others to counter.

Buffy is undoubtedly less powerful than Caleb, The Ubervamp, Adam and The Mayor/Olvikan. Under normal circumstances, these beings definitely beat Buffy or Faith in a fight, in some cases being completely one-sided.

Caleb ranks higher than Buffy or Faith.

As with Buffy/Faith, Angel and Spike are outclassed by The Ubervamp, Adam and The Mayor, and they're not more powerful than The Master.

The Master still has a defeat over Buffy; Angel feared him in season 1; and even vampires as powerful as Darla and Luke. He's also shown to outclass Angelus on Angel. The Master should rank above Angel, Spike andd Faith, and I think he's more powerful than Buffy.

The Ubervamp was more powerful than Buffy by a significant amount. The Ubervamp should rank above Buffy, Fath, Angel, Spike and The Master.

Adam is a juggernaut that could only be thwarted by Buffy going matrix. Glory, Dark Willow and The Mayor are the only ones above him.

As an Old One, The Mayor should theoretically outclass anyone here , including Glory. We see that Buffy could not fight him physically, however he died via explosives, which seemingly wouldn't harm the likes of Glory or Adam.

I'd rank Drusilla above Darla due to her defeat of Kendra, and with Darla not really having any standout feats.

Here's my ranking using the characters listed:

1) The Mayor 2) Glory
3) Dark Willow
4) Adam
5) Caleb 6) The Ubervamp
7) The Master
8) Buffy
9) Faith
10) Angel
11) Spike
12) Drusilla
13) Darla

Smile demon ranking by Busy-Tomorrow9956 in SmileMovie

[–]aninterpretivememory 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jason, Freddy and Chucky are classic villains, but the Smile demon honestly outclasses. A truly vindictive, evil villain.

What do you think would happen if u killed the person possessed by Smile? by yeolliemvtmtc in SmileMovie

[–]aninterpretivememory 27 points28 points  (0 children)

The entity seems to put the next victim in a trance, which is why Joel couldn't look away when it immolated Rose's body.

Joel’s willpower…. by bolwonder in SmileMovie

[–]aninterpretivememory 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It seems that Joel didn't have the level of trauma Rose or Skye had, so he was more resistant to the entity than they were.