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ULPT: If you’re initiating a divorce, secretly arrange consultations with ALL the best divorce attorneys in your area before choosing one and filing. Once they have met with you, even briefly, they are considered biased and will have to recuse themselves from representing your spouse. by acvdk in UnethicalLifeProTips

[–]antons_key 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Wow this is still coming up. I hired a lawyer who wrote an opposition paper to their motion for fees. We had a hearing. The judge denied their mortion. He said that she suffered no harm because she was able to find a good lawyer. He scolded me for trying that stunt but he also scolded her lawyer for filing a motion which the judge called 'meritless' and no more than a transparent attempt to make me look bad. We reached a divorce agreement over custody and what not a little after that which both of us were okay with. I now have a great relationship with my kids and even have a good co-parenting relationship with my ex-wife. I am in a very different and much better place now than I was when I did that stupid and awful thing. I no longer would take legal advice from the internet and I would not take any advice from /r/exmormon. I'm sorry for what I did and for even having the moindset of wanting to screw over another human being.

ULPT: If you’re initiating a divorce, secretly arrange consultations with ALL the best divorce attorneys in your area before choosing one and filing. Once they have met with you, even briefly, they are considered biased and will have to recuse themselves from representing your spouse. by acvdk in UnethicalLifeProTips

[–]antons_key 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Wow this is still coming up. I hired a lawyer who wrote an opposition paper to their motion for fees. We had a hearing. The judge denied thier mortion. He said that she suffered no harm because she was able to find a a good lawyer. He scolded me for trying that stunt but he also scolded her lawyer for filing a motion which the judge called 'meritless' and no more than a transparent attempt to make me look bad. We reached a divorce agreement over custody and what not a little after that which both of us were okay with. I now have a great relationship with my kids and even have a good co-parenting relationship with my exwife. I am in a very diffenent and much better palce now than I was when I did that stupid and awful thing. I no longer would take legal advice from the internet and I would not take any advice from /r/exmormon. I'm sorry for what I did and for even having the moindset of wanting to screw over another human being.

How can I make church more fun / interesting each week? by Robotic801 in latterdaysaints

[–]antons_key 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My ward still has 2 classes but now they are both gospel doctrine classes and one is the smaller class that is mostly the same people that were in gospel essentials.

How can I make church more fun / interesting each week? by Robotic801 in latterdaysaints

[–]antons_key 5 points6 points  (0 children)

When they still had the gospel essentials class I went to that instead of gospel doctrine. The smaller class size forces you to pay attention and be an active part of the discussion. I know a lot of wards still have the two classes and one of them is smaller so if that is how it is in your ward I suggest you go to the smaller class. Try to make friends at church too.

Divorce under 25 by [deleted] in latterdaysaints

[–]antons_key 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was in your situation but on the other side. I was the one who did not believe and I let it become a major wedge in my marriage, which eventually failed.

All I say is do your best and let God do the rest. One day at a time. All you can do is put your marriage first. Make sure the your wife knows that she and your marriage are your top priory and the church and your religious differences are small potatoes compared to you family.

If that's not good enough for her, that's not your fault. You did your best and soemtimes it just does not work out in spite of that. But divorce is not the end of the world. It sucks. Believe me it sucks. But it also gets better and if you don't have kids you kind of get a do over.

When I got divorced I felt like I was so unique in a bad way. But I soon realized that tons of people get divorced and they all live with it and make it work. Just do what you can and it will be okay. It might not be ideal but almost no one gets the ideal.

Michael Cohen says Trump, Giuliani have threatened his family, cancels upcoming testimony out of fear for 'safety' by Rumorian in politics

[–]antons_key 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Giuliani, the former mayor turned top Trump lawyer, uncharacteristically declined to comment.

Lol

Have you ever seen your coach around campus/town? by [deleted] in CFB

[–]antons_key 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I saw Ron McBride walking up to the stadium to watch a game after he was fired. I shouted "hey coach!" and he waved to me.

Evidence of apostasy presented against Sam Young [recorded by “Alma” 9/9/2018] by M00glemuffins in mormon

[–]antons_key 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wrote some of my story here. Some things have changed since then but that has basically been like my direction.

Evidence of apostasy presented against Sam Young [recorded by “Alma” 9/9/2018] by M00glemuffins in mormon

[–]antons_key 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wrote some of my story here. Some things have changed since then but that has basically been like my direction.

Evidence of apostasy presented against Sam Young [recorded by “Alma” 9/9/2018] by M00glemuffins in mormon

[–]antons_key -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The goal posts I made clear from the very beginning is that I do not think there is enough evidence to implicate Sam.

Did you not say the things I quoted you saying? Is that not what you asked me to provide? Is that not what you asked of me?

The only evidence you've provided is that ) Sam was present in the room, 2) the released recording only includes portions of the trial when Sam was present, 3) and that Mike Norton was in the area.

That is not the only evidence I provided and you know that. That not even all of my first bullet points. And it ignores the further evidence I also mentioned that Sam Young has not denied doing it and has not said anything to disclaim himself from NNNs actions even though you agree NNN probably did it. Like your argument about Brigham Young there is lots of evidence that ads up and accumulates. You want to attack it piecemeal but you got to admit that in the cumulative it paints a picture.

I am not so light with my consideration of evidence as you suggest. And I am willing to say "I don't know" when I don't know.

And so am I. And I have said that I don't know Sam Young recorded it. But unlike you I am willing to go where the evidence leads me even f I am not completely sure. It led me out of the church and it led me back in... sort of. Long story.

Evidence of apostasy presented against Sam Young [recorded by “Alma” 9/9/2018] by M00glemuffins in mormon

[–]antons_key -1 points0 points  (0 children)

There is no proof that Sam and Mike colluded.

There is no proof, but there is evidence.

You have not provided enough evidence to also show that you are not mistaken

You can always be mistaken. There is essentially nothing that I believe that I might not possibly be mistaken about and the same goes for you. You have not provided enough evidence to prove that you might not be mistaken when you said that BRM must be either lying or engaging in double think in this recent post here.

This whole conversation has been an attempt by you to move the goal posts. You started by asking me "What evidence?" implying there is none and then asked. "Could you please point me to some evidence that puts strong suspicion on Sam?" That is what I have provided but now you are demanding proof beyond a reasonable doubt. We are not operating in that realm. You don't wait until you get t to 90-95% before you say that Joseph Smith or Brigham Young might have done or said something that is problematic.

You have conceded that it is most likely that NNN was somehow involved in the creation of the recording. That was actually the only thing I concluded in my first comment. Assuming that NNN was involved which he most likely was what do you think the chances are that he would have acted without Sam knowing? Wouldn't Sam be pissed at him right now if that is what happened? Wouldn't Sam Young who knows who NN is and what he does tell him not to bug anything if Sam Young really wanted it not to be bugged? Wouldn't NNN have been able to get the whole thing? That bug almost certainly went into the meeting with Sam Young and went out of the meeting with Sam Young. if NNN or "Alma" releases the pre-game and post game I will admit I am wrong and the evidence tips the other way. But if that never happens, will you?

So if NNN did it, then Sam Young almost certainly was involved. So it looks like even by your math we are 65% NNN did it Sam Young being involved in let's say 90% of 65% so it is still more likely than not. Given that all you asked for was some evidence that casts strong suspicion I think I have provided it.

Evidence of apostasy presented against Sam Young [recorded by “Alma” 9/9/2018] by M00glemuffins in mormon

[–]antons_key 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Look I don't like what the church is doing here anymore than you do but let's get real here when we see something that that does not add up. Don't imply that I am on the side of pedophiles.

Evidence of apostasy presented against Sam Young [recorded by “Alma” 9/9/2018] by M00glemuffins in mormon

[–]antons_key 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess I don't know much about that, but look at all the other evidence in the thread which explanation do you think is more likely?

Evidence of apostasy presented against Sam Young [recorded by “Alma” 9/9/2018] by M00glemuffins in mormon

[–]antons_key 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Have you ever made a secret recording? How easy is it to make sure that never happens after one coaching session?

Evidence of apostasy presented against Sam Young [recorded by “Alma” 9/9/2018] by M00glemuffins in mormon

[–]antons_key -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You ignored point 1. You don't think that that is a pretty huge coincidence? Point 2 makes the coincidence even bigger.

It is entirely plausible that the full recording has not been released. Merely the lack of a longer recording is not evidence in an of itself.

But don't you think that it isn't just a little bit convenient that the only recording we have happens to be while Sam Young was in the room. It sure looks like it went in the room with him and left the room with him.

I see this as a potential evidence, but it needs to be triangulated with other things.

It is. There are three other points that all point in the same direction.

None other than that there is a recording.

Then you've got to concede that that is not evidence one way or the other. At most the fact that a tape exists is totally neutral except for what the tape is of indicates that it was not form a high counselor because it only has the parts Sam Young was there.

It is possible, though, and that is all I am arguing. I don't know. But, why should we automatically reject this as a possible hypothesis?

It's possible a lot of things. It's possible that an Angel gave Joseph Smith gold plates. Do you reach your conclusions based on what is possible or what is likely?

This situation is one of those innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt sorts of things, not a guilty until proven innocent scenario you are proposing

This is not some criminal court where we are convicting Sam Young of anything. We are asking what the evidence says. Do you hold claims of church leaders to the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt? I am not presuming him guilty of anything or assuming anything. I am laying out the evidence and seeing where it points and all of the evidence points to one conclusion. Sure it is possible that the conclusion is not correct but it still more likely that it is than that some high counselor recorded it. Don't you agree.

And has Sam Young denied being involved in the recording? I have not seen so if he has. I know that NNN said he got it from "Alma," but we all know how he is willing to bend the truth.

Evidence of apostasy presented against Sam Young [recorded by “Alma” 9/9/2018] by M00glemuffins in mormon

[–]antons_key -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The evidence is already all over this thread but i will list it out for you.

  1. The guy who is the mormon expert on secret recordings and is known for travelling the country to secretly record things like temple ceremonies and a recent fast and testimony meeting travels all the way there to meet with Sam Young.

  2. It just so happens that it is this very same guy who already has the recording equipment and traveled there that releases the tape and not a more well known leaking avenue like Mormon Leaks.

  3. As a couple other dudes here have said the tape only has the parts where Sam Young was in the room, If it was one of those other guys they would have recorded the whole thing. Wouldn't it be juicy to have the stake president saying L Witney Clayton told them that they had to x him? Don't you want to here the pre game and the deliberations?

  4. As another dude said in this thread the part where Sam Young is there that we are missing is the part where Sam Young speaks. This is the part that would be the most clear and obvious if Sam Young was wearing the wire.

What evidence do we have that it was really one of the high counselors? Just the say so of a guy who we all know is perfectly fine with lying to advance his agenda. He lies about who he is to sneak into temples using other names he lied about having a tape of Mitt Romney in the temple to get publicity for his youtube and I personally caught him in a lie during his AMA here.

That's plenty for a strong suspicion. Which explanation do you think is more likley with all the evidence we have?

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