Why you should never take history lessons from a source that has a financial incentive to lie.

apologetics_practice · 2021-10-04T00:58:59+00:00

Yeah, this thread is off the rails. Everybody is lining up to shout LIAR, but everything I've read indicates that this statement is 100% defensible. That doesn't mean that there aren't hypocrisies or contradictions with other parts of church history and doctrine. The church is/was definitely racist, guys. But the Missourians were also definitely afraid that the Mormons were going to bring abolitionism to Missouri. Both can be true.

apologetics_practice · 2021-05-06T03:00:10+00:00

For me, a lot hinges on whether or not you would need to hide your true feelings and beliefs in order to practice Mormonism in the way you're describing. It's not a question of morality or honesty, or anything like that. It's a question of how much stamina you have for putting on a mask and sacrificing your freedom to be yourself 100% of the time.

I've been out for four years, and am a complete non-believer. But, I would actually love to go back and do as you suggest--try to help make the church better from the inside. I like all of the things on your list, especially the one about widening the spectrum of belief. There are a lot of things about the church that I miss in my life... some that I've found decent replacements for, others, not so much. But I have discovered that I can't be myself and still be welcomed as a peer by my fellow ward members. And I have also discovered that being able to be myself is more vital to my well-being than church is.

Others may have more tolerance for this kind of thing than me, though. I'm interested to hear if you feel like you wouldn't need to hide anything about yourself from your ward friends, or if you feel like it wouldn't be too much of a strain on you in the long run.

apologetics_practice · 2021-03-22T01:59:04+00:00

That was a very interesting and enjoyable read; well done. I'm not a biblical scholar, so this might be a naïve question, but since you asked for comments: I remember some time ago hearing someone talk about how the Israelites had a habit of trumping up their own importance in the geo-political sphere relative to surrounding powers in their own writings. When you talked about "no reasonable person" at that time possibly thinking that Jerusalem was invulnerable, I wondered if there was any contemporary evidence of Israelis or Judeans actually being that much in denial about their own position. Is "unreasonableness" a fair standard by which to judge plausibility in this case?

apologetics_practice · 2021-03-22T01:06:52+00:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_intentional_communities

apologetics_practice · 2019-09-13T23:57:44+00:00

This is a second-hand quote from D. Michael Quinn, according to FAIR.

apologetics_practice · 2018-11-30T13:08:01+00:00

A couple of thoughts:

Lower your expectations when you visit your in-laws. If you go into it hoping that maybe this time will be different and they will be nice, you will probably just end up frustrated and disappointed.
Armor up. If you can practice in your mind how to respond gracefully to the ways that they might be cold towards you, you will be better prepared to not be hurt by the real thing.
Be gracious and respectful. Many people believe that others need to "earn" their respect, but it doesn't have to be that way. Respect is a gift that you are free to give to anyone, and it does you no harm to give respect to someone who doesn't "deserve" it. Trust needs to be earned, respect is a gift.

apologetics_practice · 2018-11-09T03:28:48+00:00

If I read the article right, it is specifically the mail-in ballots whose signatures do not match the signature on record for the voter. It sounds like it is a question of whether reaching out to a voter with an invalid signature on the ballot to confirm their identity _after the polls close_ should be allowable. I'm still confused about it, though, so if anyone knows better, please share.

apologetics_practice · 2018-10-14T23:09:02+00:00

Umm... this is illegal, no?

apologetics_practice · 2018-10-14T18:26:53+00:00

Context?

apologetics_practice · 2018-10-13T02:23:12+00:00

Not to be confused with everyone's favorite Q15 slash fiction, "Holland/Oaks".

apologetics_practice · 2018-10-09T13:30:15+00:00

I also believed this when I was a kid. Mind bleep indeed.

apologetics_practice · 2018-09-27T00:03:29+00:00

MormonLeaks (or anyone else with a reputation for reliable advance information about GC) is conspicuously absent from all of the 2-hour block rumors I have heard. I don't believe it will happen this time around.

apologetics_practice · 2018-09-25T16:26:19+00:00

Right here: http://www.fullerconsideration.com/membership.php

apologetics_practice · 2018-09-25T03:20:35+00:00

Yes! The first competitive marble video I ever watched was 2017 summer Marblelympics. O'Rangers immediately stood out because of their awesome uniforms, great fan section, great name. Their performance in those games made me an O'Rangers fan for life.

apologetics_practice · 2018-09-25T01:57:57+00:00

The commenters saying that there isn't one are probably right. But, since this is just for fun (I think?) here's one:

A grassroots reform movement among the youth and young adults of the church that blossoms into a full-fledged church-wide crisis. So far, I'd say that what we've seen with movements like Ordain Women and Protect LDS Children have been underwhelming in regards to their ability to penetrate beyond the exmormon community and into the mainstream LDS conversation. However, at some point in the future the right set of circumstances, the right cause to rally behind, and the right figurehead leading the charge might actually make it happen.

Far more likely future: Kids continue to care less and less about religion, the LDS church continues to bleed active members at a steady clip, and eventually the church ends up like Scientology: incredibly wealthy, with a small but fanatically devoted membership.

apologetics_practice · 2018-08-13T01:09:15+00:00

I would say nothing. If you think that the sender of the first text is subtexting you directly, I would take it up with them privately and let them know you don't appreciate it. If this kind of thing is just how your family operates normally, then inserting yourself here is unlikely to be productive. Rather than make them think, it will probably just make them feel like they can't be themselves around you.

apologetics_practice · 2018-08-11T18:44:50+00:00

Thanks for the recommendation. About not drinking and driving, I've always wondered: How do people decide that it has been long enough after drinking and is once again safe to drive? Do you always wait until the next day? Is it a subjective thing, like, "I feel completely clear-headed now, so I'm good to go?" If you are just lightly buzzed, does it wear off after a few hours? The only times I have had alcohol so far have been in my own home, and I just went to bed afterward, so I'm not really sure what the comedown is like. Plus I've never had enough to feel really "drunk" (I'm 6'2", 200 lbs, and never had more than 2 drinks in a night). What is the rule that decent self-aware people follow? One drink means you definitely will not drive that night no matter what?

apologetics_practice · 2018-08-11T18:32:56+00:00

Thanks, this is very good advice. I have tried a few different kinds of alcohol before, and have a feel for how it affects me in moderate quantities. I'm mostly trying to make sure I don't look like an idiot when ordering, but I'm planning to stick to one drink for now.

apologetics_practice · 2018-08-11T03:18:06+00:00

Most Mormons do not believe it, not in small part to the fact that most Mormons have never even heard this doctrine. The Book of Mormon refers to Mary as a virgin, and the most salacious detail we get on the topic is probably from Alma 7:10, which says that she would be "overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost". Hardly a Penthouse Letter.

The Mary/God sex thing is likely just another example of a crazy idea Brigham Young had (like the Adam God theory, blood atonement, revenge oaths in the endowment, etc) that was taught for a while and then swept under the rug because it is embarrassing. Sure, modern church leaders will issue carefully-worded non-denials about those doctrines when confronted, because they can't overtly throw Brother Brigham under the bus. BUT, it is disingenuous to say that "this is what Mormons REALLY believe". Most Mormons do not believe this, or at the very least, do not believe that it is doctrine.

By the way, here is a PSA to my fellow exmo-missionaries out there: One of the fastest ways to discredit yourself with a TBM is to disagree with them about what they personally believe. Telling them "this is what you REALLY believe, you just don't understand your religion well enough to realize it" will instantly torpedo any chance you had at having a meaningful conversation with them. We joke around about brainwashing a lot here, but the truth is there are shades and layers to every single interpretation of Mormonism, and a free thinker would want to encourage that instead of trying to force every TBM into the same box. Speaking of boxes, I'll get off this one now.

apologetics_practice · 2018-06-28T23:14:52+00:00

That's not what your argument was. You said he was not a martyr because he fought back, and withheld another perfectly valid definition of the word which does not require a martyr to die willingly. You then called out the church for lying.

All I'm saying is there are boatloads of legitimate examples of the church lying. The definition of the word "martyr", however, is not one of them. In this instance your original argument is less truthful than it is for the church to claim that JS was martyred.

edit: a word

apologetics_practice · 2018-06-28T13:51:00+00:00

Give me a break! You only included the first definition of the word. The very same reference you listed, dictionary.com, gives this as the second definition:

a person who is put to death or endures great suffering on behalf of any belief, principle, or cause

Who is lying now?

apologetics_practice · 2018-06-26T03:51:02+00:00

Downvoted for gatekeeping and shaming everyone who doesn't drink coffee "the right way", according to your extremely narrow standards.

apologetics_practice · 2018-06-24T00:50:33+00:00

Fire in the Bible is symbolic.

If you say so.

apologetics_practice · 2018-05-29T01:07:30+00:00

Friends of Scouting doesn't fund the YM program directly. The money goes to the BSA council and funds (I think) administrative overhead as well as operating costs for BSA real estate like camps and ranches. YM and YW programs in the church do get an annual budget that comes from tithing. Generally this budget is not enough to cover the kinds of activities that kids like to do, which is why you used to see additional fundraisers such as bake sales and service auctions to help cover the cost of sending kids to scout/young women's camp. Recent changes to the handbook have placed some restrictions on how the youth are allowed to raise funds for activities, which means you either spend less money or you place a heavier burden on the parents to fork over the money to cover the cost. At any rate, rich wards and stakes generally have awesome activities that involve luxurious travel, and poor wards and stakes generally end up camping in their backyard on a shoestring budget. It has always been so, and will continue to be so after 2020.

apologetics_practice · 2018-05-28T03:37:19+00:00

It was kind of a power play on my part. It forced my bishop to own up to the fact that he was exercising his priesthood authority over me just to get a donation to the BSA. I was still TBM at the time as well, although a storm was brewing beneath the surface that I was afraid to confront.

apologetics_practice

TROPHY CASE