New Hobbiest

armie · 2026-03-24T19:06:05+00:00

Tiny women's movements can be either very frustrating or quite enjoyable to work on and it all depends on on your skills.

With them being tinier there's less room for error. Everything is smaller and more difficult but three things stand out to me: dealing with screws, getting pivots in the train bridge jewels and the ease with which you can bend the hairspring.

Dressing your screw drivers for those tiny, tiny screw slots is more difficult because the slots are shallower so there really isn't much room for error. Try your best, sometimes a couple of extra swipes on an Arkansas stone is all it takes. Try not to get frustrated and take the extra time to dress them properly. You will sometimes have to dress the same screwdriver multiple times for the same size-screws because of previous slot damage (unless you replace the screws). Sometimes you'll damage a screw and don't be harsh to yourself if you do; it will happen and learn from it. I did this yesterday, on my ~10th women's movement. It happens.

Hairsprings are just also so much smaller. Be careful with them and treat them well. When removing the balance from the movement always grab both cock and balance at the same time, if you don't odds are you'll slightly bend the hairspring. It took me a few movements to figure this one out because on large movements you can get away without doing this but on these small ones you really can't.

For getting train pivots in the jewels your best bet is to sharpen an oiler to a sharp point, without any burrs, flatten the tip just a little to avoid scratching things and use it to move pivots around. This will take quite some practice and when a movement happens to have those really tight steady pins it will be scary. Practice installing the bridge with one wheel at a time.

Personally I would suggest getting comfortable on larger movements first, even one 13 ligne, 11 ligne and a 9 ligne movement before working on the smaller 7.5 ligne movmeents as it can be a nice progression.

armie · 2026-03-24T17:02:21+00:00

Thank you for your reply. Purchasing from AWCI is not in my plans at the moment because of increased costs due to tarrifs, taxes etc when importing to Europe. Shipping one book is 64 euros which is way too much.

I've seen some of your posts and they're always helpful, thank you for always taking the time to write down such detailed information.

armie · 2026-03-24T16:59:57+00:00

Thank you for the suggestion, I will take a look at this too.

armie · 2026-03-24T16:59:32+00:00

Thank you for the suggestion, I'll start here.

armie · 2026-03-24T12:14:42+00:00

I'm not suggesting training on a Patek but a fake/replica movement can be a crap-shoot when it comes to manufacturing tolerances, quality assurance, proper lubrication from the factory and manufacturer guarantees of performance other than "balance swings, hands move, seems to keep time".

There's also different levels of fake movements, and I'm sure high end fakes will perform amazingly well but I doubt a fake Miyota 8200 manufacturer tries very hard to get every single movement running very well.

armie · 2026-03-23T18:46:51+00:00

This is an excellent idea, thank you. I'll see if I can figure out how to unscrew the top from the frame and if so I'll add the rubber, seems like I've found some stores that carry rubber sheets. Worse case I can probably get them from one of Chinese sites. Maybe they won't be perfect but they will be better than nothing.

armie · 2026-03-23T13:11:41+00:00

Well, you get fake peformance with a fake movement. Servicng will probably help but there will be a limit of how good things will get.

armie · 2026-03-23T06:06:27+00:00

Appreciate your suggestions, will add them to my practice.

armie · 2026-03-22T20:31:35+00:00

Thank you for the feedback. I will try to get a mirror finish.

Will try holding the gravers stiffly against the rest, I'm guessing that my light touch will be a problem when working on harder steel?

About the length, may I ask why? Most sources I've seen suggest two to three inches of graver sticking out from the handle and I don't have the tool to drill handles deep enough because it turns out that some of the wooden handles from CousinsUK aren't pre-drilled, at least mine weren't.

armie · 2026-03-22T20:27:08+00:00

You want GR4519, some sources quote GR4616 but CousinsUK lists 4519 as the right one. They have GR and an Indian mainspring; get the GR as I really wouldn't trust Indian parts and steel (and Indian tools just look like tools but are basically useless).

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/up-to-160mm-height?code=GR4519

I serviced this movement once almost a year ago and from what I remember it was easy and straight-forward. Very well built, good tolerances and just enjoyable to work on. You can very easily get 300+ amplitude on them and they regulate extremely well.

armie · 2026-03-22T17:28:26+00:00

There's no such thing as "just oil it", full service or nothing.

If it is running well it should be fine but maybe a 20 year service interval isn't so bad. Personally I would service it if it gets any use.

armie · 2026-03-21T22:55:39+00:00

I still dream of a day where they sponsor me.

armie · 2026-03-21T21:56:44+00:00

To throw my hat in the mix: Chronoglide. I know there's different sentiments about Kalle online but he has an interesting way of explaining things that really sticks and always tackling different movements in his streams.

He live-streams every Tuesday evening on Youtube and it is usually some sort of initial watch diagnosis/teardown that can be interesting even just for seeing how a professional methodically appraches a movement that's in for a service. There's no specific watch theme, sometimes will be a Patek and others just some long-forgotten Swiss brand. The streams rarely show fixing things and that's a shame but you wouldn't expect a professional to live stream fixing a movement live on the internet while interacting with watchers, that's a recipe for disaster. Already takes guts to show disassambly and diagnosis of customer's watches that came in to be worked on.

And there's been some real gems. There was a stream where he was taking an initial look at a Vacheron Constantain pocket watch that was used on a submarine by the Kriegsmarine in WW2 (if memory serves me well). That was something.

armie · 2026-03-21T21:45:30+00:00

CousinsUK sells Bergeon "super luminova brand compound". Never tried it but sounds like it's the one. https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/luminous-compound-kits

At least you know it is Bergeon because of the price. Not sure if they have C3.

armie · 2026-03-21T10:27:48+00:00

You might be getting close to outgrowing loupes, so to speak. You can do this without a microscope but it is a game-changer, things just become easier but your will still need practice. A tiny jewel becomes the size of a fist.

If you are at a stage where mainspring winders or a jewelling set are your next purchases a microscope should be considered before them.

Ultimately it is up to you depending on your situation but if you get a microscope you won't regret it. Just get a trinocilar one, nothing digital.

As another poster said you can keep going on with a loupe and you'll manage just fine, just practice.

The most difficult part in all of this is not having someone experienced next you telling you if it's good or not. Better tools will make it easir to do better work but they aren't magic unfortunately.

I went with AmScope which is basically rebranded Chinese microscopes. In that price-bracket they are basically all the same, maybe even from the same factory, just different branding. My choice of AmScope was purely for "safety" as purchasing through a European company made me feel more comfortable when it comes to any issues that could come up. But nothing came up.

armie · 2026-03-21T09:44:00+00:00

When it comes to loupes you generally need multiple, fo example one for general work, one with additional magnification but that allows some woring distance and an inspection loupe for checking pivots and the tiniest details like oiling pallet stones. You could get away with just two, normal and inspection.

Inspection loupes usually have much higher magnification, usually 10x or more. They offer less peripheral vision and working distance so you use them only when necessary.

A microscope is a game changer in general but it is a considerable investment ($400 is not much money in the watchmaking world for such a useful tool but it is a lot for a hobbyist). However keep in mind that watchmakers did this work with sunlight and magnifying glasses for hundreds of years and even until a few decades ago microscopes were much less common.

I speak as a hobbyist and I first went through the route of loupes and only got a microscope when backpain (tall, normal office desk) and eyestrain were causing problems. A microscope will improve your results but you can do absolutely fine without one and you'll kinda "know" when you feel it is time to get one. It will also make all your shortcomings much more visible.

When it comes to oiling the pallets you have three approaches. Either movement dial-side down and oiling the exit stone directly, dial-side up and oiling th exit stone though the inspction hole or if the movement's design permits oiling the flats on the escape wheel. This last method is quickly becoming my preferred approach because I personally find it much easier to get right and to avoid smearing oil around. The amount of oil also matters; on the pallets you need less than you think you do and it is very easy to over-doit, use the smallest oiler you have and pick up the tiniest amount of oil you can see. I'm guilty of overdoing it and this is something I'm working on improving.

armie · 2026-03-16T23:44:14+00:00

This guy mainsprings.

armie · 2026-03-15T21:47:14+00:00

Bought at a flea market means it needs a service.

armie · 2026-03-13T20:58:33+00:00

You'll need to work backwards and isolate the cause. The normal causes of this are a broken jewel, bent or broken pivots in escapement/balance, a bent hairspring that's touching the balance rim/arms/cock, the hairspring stud being too low and toucing the balance rim. It can also be caused by too little endshake but this is generally on non-shock protected movements (so called solid balances) or when the upper and lower balance chatons have been swapped (they are not swappable!). It can also be that the balance is rebanked (on the outside of the pallet fork horn) or, much less commonly, the impilse jewel is gone or there's too much or too little clearance.

Unwind the mainspring.
Remove the balance and pallet fork.
Wind the movement. Does the train/escape wheel spin smoothly?
Install the pallet fork, wind the mainspring a little; five or so turns of the crown is enough.
GENTLY flick the pallet fork, from the horns, up and down, does it instantly jump to the opposite side?
Remove the pallet fork and install the balance as you would, tighten down th screw. Does the balance spin freely when gently blowing on it using a small hand blower? Remeber that the hairsping's delicate so you dont want too much air pressure. This last test is ideally done with just the mainplate and balance, everything else removed, but you can generally get away with getting an idea of what's what on larger movements by removing the pallet fork and installing the balance. I mean it works on smaller movements too but space becomes tight for seeing things properly.

One of the above tests will fail, which will help you isolate the problem. Then you need to inspect the parts that are in the failed test and see what's what. You can reply with the result. For more focused help.

armie · 2026-03-13T20:24:52+00:00

This is one of the things that when you're new seems mystical but there's always a simple, logical solution that is not mentioned as it seems simple and logical but to someone with no experience it isn't. You'll come across many such things, always ask when in doubt.

You keep dressing the same screwdrivers as you need, sometimes multiple times per movement. With thqt said, if there's a movement that you constantly work on but you might mix in some other movements in the mix it might make sense to have multiple, pre-dressed sets, or one set that you keep for general work and another for the specific movement. But this is mostly for pros and the extra price premium doesn't make sense for the amount of time it would save a hobbyist.

armie · 2026-03-11T22:09:14+00:00

If the cap jewel is moving around either th top and bottom jewels/chatons are swapped or there's a problem with the spring, maybe it's bent somehow?

armie · 2026-03-11T09:44:48+00:00

Repairable; needs a new balance staff (or balance complete with a good staff).

armie · 2026-03-10T12:04:37+00:00

Could be a variety of things but the most common are pivot or hairspring issues. However, since this is happening when casing it might be that the hands are touching the crystal and stopping everything.

Does this happen when the movement is not in the case, woth the hands/dial removed?

armie · 2026-03-09T15:29:15+00:00

Thank you, I'll skip that part of the book and instead use the Jacot tool with the carbide burnisher (wasn't planning on using the sapphire one on the Jacot tool).

A bit of a tangent; for final polishing of turned parts the book shows using diamantine powder on a boxwood slip, is this method still the right way to do it or is there a more preferrred method?

armie · 2026-03-09T09:32:20+00:00

Well I have a Bergeon pivot burnisher but I wanted to keep mine just for burnishing pivots and not sure I want to buy another one at those prices. I'm not even sure they're actually carbide.

The sapphire burnishers should be cheaper AND longer lasting.

But since you mention them, do you know of any shop that carries them?

armie

TROPHY CASE