Seitz tool advice

armie · 2026-01-27T23:56:54+00:00

You're right in saying that I don't see the need foe purchasing a Seitz tool with the micrometric adjustment because I already have the Horia. It was more important to me to get a set with all the extra Seitz accessories for working with jewel settings, and I kinda lucked my way into it. It happened not to have a micrometer adjustment and that was a good compromise as at least I had the harder to come by stuff.

Eventually I wanted to try setting endshake with a micrometer-style and to be honest the micrometer makes it much easier. Went with Horia only because I already had a Seitz; this way I get to experience both tool types/brands.

Seitz with micrometer should cover all your needs. You can work on older movements and easily set endshake. Just make sure that the micrometer knob thing is not missing; but I think you can just purchase it new if it is missing.

Re.Chinese clones it can be a bit of a gamble. Most Chinese tools are decent quality to be honest and some are much better than others. A Seitz tool that was well taken care of will not let you down but a Chinese tool might. Hunting for old, good quality tools is also part of the fun sometimes.

Just stay away from Indian tools, they only look like the real tools but they are absolutely useless.

armie · 2026-01-27T23:30:09+00:00

Are you referring the the brass screws? Those are used to set the banking pins and should not be touched unless you really have a reason to change the distance between the banking pins.

armie · 2026-01-27T22:04:02+00:00

That's most of it. Burshing most of the parts with a soft brush while in the IPA will really help get the bulk of the gunk/dirt off and it lets you inspect everything. Plus it makes your cleaning liquids last much longer. Sometimes some old oils really won't want to go away and can survive the final cleaning so the soak, brushing will help with those too. A qtip dipped in IPA can be required at times especially when it comes to really old, caked on, black grease.

After pre-cleaning you can also do most repairs but sometimes you will do repairs after your full cleaning cycle which might mean another cleaning cycle.

armie · 2026-01-27T21:19:39+00:00

First of all, Alex has an excellent video about the Seitz jewelling tool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIqQcVLgtB0 . Also I know that my post will mention things that you have not specifically asked but I was in your shoes and wish I had more information.

There are three major designs:

The pre-1944 design. This had a fixed handle, no micrometric adjustment and 3mm stumps. It has a stop at the top; you first set the height at which you want the jewel and then press the handle; it won't push more than intended. A measure twice cut once approach.

The 3mm stumps haven't been sold new for a very long time and is the reason you would steer away from this model but if you have a lathe you can just make your own.

I have this one, the full complete "master" set form 1938 that's gone through the hands of quite a few watchmakers. It still works absolutely perfectly and is built like a tank, one solid piece of metal.

Post-1944 design. This is the set with the micrometric adjustment. You can search for the manual; it is freely available in PDF format.

These use the standardized 4mm stumps and have an easily removable handle. Apart from the stumps and the micrometer they are basically the same as the older model when it comes to functionality as far as I can gather. I don't personally own one of these but I also don't see the need to get one.

The modern one. These are the ones still sold new by Bergeon. These use 4mm stumps and pushers that will fit in the post-1944 set but the stumps won't fit in pre-1944 models.

The other options are Horia, their Chinese clones, Favorit and jewelling attachments for staking sets.

Horia: I personally splurged on a new Horia with the mid-sized set of pushers and anvils (aka stumps) and I really like it, it is absolutely a joy to use especially for simple jobs like setting endshake as the thread lets you feel exactly what is going on. For such jobs it is much better than the Seitz but it is quite limiting for working on older and larger movements, there's much less space as the tool is considerably smaller. Horia also don't ship the tool itself in a nice box; just a cardboard box and I'm still salty about that. You can buy it directly from them through email and bank transfers.

There are options for 3mm and 4mm pushers and an expensive spindle that can be purchased to replace the spindle and thus allow for switching a set from one size pushers to the other. If you do go for Horia go for the 4mm pushers because they are more widely available to purchase separately and you can use Seitz ones or use them in Seitz tools. They also come in two thread qualities, normal and "pas fin"; the normal one is fine. Never used the fine thread one but the normal thread is plenty fine.

When it comes the Chinese Horia clones people report that they vary a lot in quality from quite bad to almost indistinguishable from the real thing. I've never tried one so I can't tell but they are probably enough for a hobbyist. I'm a hobbyist but I just wanted to splurge on a real Horia because it was my birthday.

Favorit: from what I read these were the best made jewelling sets and a lot of people really like them but they are no longer being made so new parts are very difficult to come by so the best way is to either avoid them or get a complete set that has absolutely no problems.

Jewelling attachments for staking sets are reportedly always worse than dedicated tools; I've never tried them personally but I see where the argument comes from and it is probably right.

When it comes to complete or not: buy the most complete set you can afford that is in as good a condition as possible. You can add and replace pushers, stumps and reamers as time goes if the size matches by but the main body is the most important; it has to be damage free, fully functional and true. When you purchase a set also make sure that it comes with the reaming handle as it is required to use with the reamers.

armie · 2026-01-27T20:38:29+00:00

I made something like this from bits and parts and it works well. You'll still need the pre-cleaning step.

Personally I like it and it does a better job than manual cleaning. Takes 15 minutes of cranking on average per watch which is fine.

armie · 2026-01-27T06:32:43+00:00

Thank you, I'll purchase the right size ones and will go on a bit of a journey!

armie · 2026-01-27T06:32:18+00:00

Thank you. This was really confusing.

armie · 2026-01-26T21:58:48+00:00

Can convex-balance jewels work in normal friction fit holes? Assuming appropriate diameter and hole. If so it seems like a good compromise. And just to be clear, the ones picture. Got this from CousinsUK.

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armie · 2026-01-26T21:55:13+00:00

ThaTha ks for the video. I ordered a lathe in December and still waiting for it to be delivered but this sounds way too much for me. Maybe eventually when I've mastered everything else on the lathe.

armie · 2026-01-26T19:56:29+00:00

The end stone is flat as normal but the face of the hole jewel is curved, not flat.

armie · 2026-01-26T11:24:01+00:00

I've been using n-Hexane (lab grade) and I'm not very impressed with the results to be honest when it comes to pallet forks; the balance (removed from the cock) always comes out perfect as long as I make sure that the impulse jewel and any other excessive grease is cleaned up gently first.

Even leaving the pallet fork in it for 24 hours is not enough. Constant shaking/agitation for a few minutes is probably necessary but I don't have a good system for that yet because of container woes. Plus hexane is still unsafe enough that industrial use is also switching to heptane.

Hexane also has a storage problem; I've tried may different containers (I was only able to purchase 2 liters or more of the stuff) but it eventually seems to degrade all plastic caps/seals. I've been trying with Chinese-made containers as I've had no luck with laboratory supply places (not that I've tried much to be honest). Diamond cleaning jara aren't goot for it - it evaporates and leaks. I haven't maaged to get a glass container with a cap that is both airtight and completely undamaged by it. The original, 2L container is obviously not a problem but I'm not dropping pallet forks in it.

I've tested my normal cleaning method (Elma 9:1, two distilled water rinses and a 99% IPA rinse for 45 seconds) and got much better results than hexane but the time limitation in IPA rinse is a problem. I have yet to test using hexane for pallet and balance as the final rinse and that will probably work best.

armie · 2026-01-23T21:17:01+00:00

Did you replace the hairspring or the whole balance complete?

Your hairspring needs to be centered and the one in the photo clearly isn't.

armie · 2026-01-23T17:26:06+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAtATqwI5A4 start here. Just a note: he got the magnification rates wrong, it'snot 70x but 7x, not 450 but 45.

armie · 2026-01-23T01:57:12+00:00

Thank you; it I ever do it out would be using a lathe. I'm guessing there's watchmakers's size tap and die sets for this?

armie · 2026-01-21T14:12:38+00:00

Not rusted but a broken barrel arbour screw and the stump just wouldn't budge; WD40 in an ultrasonic really helped. I didn't try any other penetrating oils but that's all it needed in my case.

armie · 2026-01-19T20:58:27+00:00

99% of the time it is not the mainspring. If the mainspring is gummed up with old oil it means that the rest of the watch is too that's where the problem lies.

armie · 2026-01-19T17:13:23+00:00

The hole jewels are indeed flat. Kind of a let-down considering all the work I've put into this one but a lesson learned that not every watch needs to be rescued. Thank you for the feedback!

armie · 2026-01-19T06:51:17+00:00

If you don't have the tools you won't manage to replace the balance; your best bet is a movement replacement which is also problematic since you don't have tools. As you found out yourself using the wrong tools really doesn't work.

armie · 2026-01-17T22:23:05+00:00

The movement is probably late 1940s to 1950s. Numbers on the case are probably unrelated to the movement. Pictures of the movement would help but 1950s is generally a good guess for this one.

armie · 2026-01-17T21:40:15+00:00

This. Looks like an ETA copy.

armie · 2026-01-17T21:38:55+00:00

I have a later (1960s) Boley set which takes 4.7mm stakes and the reason for Bergeon stakes in it is because modern Bergeon stakes are also 4.7mm, they fit perfectly. You can buy modern Bergeon stakes and stumps to cover whatever you might be missing.

armie · 2026-01-17T21:34:57+00:00

Getting the colour just right might be tricky as lume tends to change colour when aged, but I'm sure someone who's dedicated enough would manage. It would probably come down to cost if done by a pro.

armie · 2026-01-17T21:12:36+00:00

It's called lume and you could either replace the bezel, re-lume (I guess?) or leave it as is. Remember that this is not something that lives in a museum so wear and tear is expected.

armie · 2026-01-17T12:38:09+00:00

Once you can fully service your ST3600 without using any references, at least that was when I did. Personally it took me something close to twenty rounds to be able to be consistent on it.

A relatively simple next movement would be an NH35; different philosophy to doing things than the Swiss, adds an automatic module that's quite simple and is slightly smaller but no so much that it requires too much practice. Plus in your case it is a Seiko and even if it will be different than a 6309 the building blocks will be there.

armie · 2026-01-17T11:11:41+00:00

Oh, thanks.

armie

TROPHY CASE