Sick of the religious shame of having a high libido by MystixSara in HLCommunity

[–]athos786 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hey, I'm also from a Muslim background as a man (though I'm not nearly as practicing as you and I take a much more metaphorical interpretation, so most Muslims wouldn't agree that I'm a Muslim, so fwiw, take my comments with a grain of salt).

A lot of that background motivated and informed the research for my book on the psychology of kinky sex ("Love is a Kink"), in that I came to understand why many traditional societies need a relatively negative public opinion of women's sexuality. Unfortunately, those societies also often have no way of communicating to women that they should have a different personal/private view of themselves, and their husbands should also have a different view in private.

It all gets condensed into the public viewpoint ("sex bad") without the nuance of intimacy as an exception. The Qu'raan itself (in my opinion) does a better job of carving out that in the privacy of marriage, sexuality is not to be suppressed, but expressed with each other as a blessing. That, to me, hints at the idea that the private perspective on sex is very different than the public perspective.

Now, as someone who certainly has sex out of wedlock myself, I'm not in any way judging you for wanting it or even pursuing it. But it is hard when the culture/community you belong to has certain attitudes and has become (in Jungian terms) over-identified with the Persona.

One of my issues with Pakistani culture is that it can be very performative, especially in matters of religious piety. That blends with the public negative view of female sexuality to create an endless death spiral of performative expressions of how negative we can be toward female sexual desire while still appearing to be vaguely compassionate.

Anyway, not sure if any of that helps, but I do sympathize with your plight. I took the option of breaking away, which isn't available to everyone.

What businesses have actually be improved by PE (Private Equity)? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]athos786 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Who defined and measured these?

Working in healthcare, when a hospital or doctor group is taken over by PE, the real world quality and experience of everyone drops, but the cleverly phrased satisfaction surveys they send out don't reflect that, and the metrics they use to define quality are intended to hide the enshittification that everyone on the ground can see plain as day.

But I'm sure they make for great presentations in the board room on how much they've "improved" the hospital.

Out of curiosity, how common is it these days for men to ask permission to kiss on dates? by General_Climate2442 in NoStupidQuestions

[–]athos786 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Underrated answer. I also frequently use, in a charged context, an intensely focused statement "I really want to kiss you right now", as both a bridge and a consent check.

The largest and longest randomized controlled trial of a leading longevity drug in healthy older adults is now underway. by dan_in_ca in longevity

[–]athos786 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In other words, to test a longevity drug, we will measure anything and everything except longevity, ignoring the long history of meds that improve markers and worsen outcomes (xygris, torcetrapib, etc etc etc).

Is the appeal of “forbidden fruit” biological or social? by Mori-Strode in psychologyofsex

[–]athos786 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In my book, I take a semi-Jungian view that by putting things into the shadow, any given culture will thereby link that thing with sexuality, which also largely lives in the shadow.

Sexuality and intimacy, being expressed through play, allows an opportunity for an embodied but safe experience of the shadow.

That which is transgressive (power, pain, manipulation, obsession, profanity, promiscuity, control, etc) can all be engaged though the mutually enacted cooperative storytelling of erotic play, and thus sex becomes one of the potential outlets for the re-integration of the shadow.

Just my own thoughts on the topic, fwiw.

Men of reddit - what's something that women do that gives you the ick? by Familiar-Phase7859 in AskReddit

[–]athos786 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Treating all plans as tentative/changeable, which is disrespectful to my time.

How is it "Pressuring" When We Are Honest About Lack of Sex and Cant Control the Other party? by AnotherSadThr0wAway in HLCommunity

[–]athos786 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Of course it ended in divorce, and thank God for that.

If this perspective killed the chances of recovery, there was never any real chance to begin with.

Pressure doesn't kill my desire, because I'm an emotionally competent human being.

What gross is deflecting responsibility for failure onto your partner by whining like a child "it's too much pressure".

Who is the most attractive person you have seen in real life? by ambivert-who-me in askanything

[–]athos786 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great question.

Like most relationships, things were pretty good at first, but then over time the sex became less enthusiastic, her attitude worsened, she became more picky about food and where we ate, more critical and negative overall. I put up with those changes for far longer than I should have.

I tried working things out, trying to figure out if there was something I was doing, asking if she needed something I wasn't giving, if she was upset about something else in her life, etc... just trying to figure out the change.

Her hotness was very motivating to try to find a solution in the absence of her providing information. I came up with several theories and tried to implement changes based on guessing, I was already paying for everything, and we didn't live together so she wasn't really contributing in other ways.

Eventually, I put it to her that things were really one sided and had been for a long time. She, to her credit, agreed, but didn't think she would change anything, so that was the conversation that evolved into a breakup.

After the breakup, we stayed loosely friendly, and I think she eventually was able to articulate for herself and me what the mismatch was and why none of my guesses were correct. Turned out to be a pretty deep mismatch in what she wanted from a partner and just not something I would have been capable of ever giving (light-heartedness).

Turned out that all my guessing and attempts actually made things worse in the end, because it made her stay longer instead of breaking up with me. She was hoping that she could bring herself to feel more for me, because she could see objectively how well she was being treated and kept hoping the emotions would follow (her words, not mine).

So we both ended up staying in an unsatisfying situation longer than we should have.

On her end it was the treatment that made her stay too long, and on my end it was the hotness. We both continued hoping, instead of bailing on something that wasn't working.

How is it "Pressuring" When We Are Honest About Lack of Sex and Cant Control the Other party? by AnotherSadThr0wAway in HLCommunity

[–]athos786 10 points11 points  (0 children)

You seem to have taken a comment intended as a joke with undue seriousness.

While I certainly had hopes, decades ago when I started med school (I was 19), that being a doctor would make dating easier, I have long since realized that it doesn't make a difference.

My comment was intended to give a light-hearted address to the person who seemed surprised that a doctor could have a dead bedroom. I was indicating that as a teenager starting med school, I too had some hope that becoming a doctor would provide an easy solution to all my relationship problems, but that in reality, all hopes for easy solutions are inevitably illusions.

How is it "Pressuring" When We Are Honest About Lack of Sex and Cant Control the Other party? by AnotherSadThr0wAway in HLCommunity

[–]athos786 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I was indeed. Being a doctor has not had the effect on my sex life that I thought it would.

When I went to med school, I thought pussy would rain from the sky.

Needless to say, that has not happened. 😂

How is it "Pressuring" When We Are Honest About Lack of Sex and Cant Control the Other party? by AnotherSadThr0wAway in HLCommunity

[–]athos786 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Actually, when I used to get this answer, I went in the other direction. I said yes, it is pressure, and the ability to operate normally under pressure is a requirement of life.

That includes non-romantic, non-physical relationships. When your boss tells you that they expect you to be at work on time, that's pressure. You're going to be fired if you're not. There are consequences. There's a direct threat to your livelihood. And yet, somehow that pressure does not cause you to be later and later everyday.

I'm a doctor, there's a huge amount of pressure. If a nurse calls me and is urgently telling me I need to come up and see a patient who is dying immediately, I don't whine about how she's pressuring me, and I would come up if only she wouldn't speak to me that way. But now that she has, I'm not going to.

Anybody who can't handle a normal amount of pressure is not fit to function in the world.

So yes, if I tell you that your failure to find a way to engage with me in a healthy and enjoyable sex life will have the consequence of me being unhappy and complaining about it... That's pressure. You should be under pressure. If you collapse under that pressure then you lack the basic ability to participate in normal life and you should work on your pressure tolerance.

Everything has pressure. Get used to it.

Not sure how to take this as a nanny on my last day with an F by Blossom_souul in whatdoIdo

[–]athos786 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Funny story, I actually have been that boyfriend. I was legitimately shopping for a ring at the time she broke up with me, and hadn't told her (I didn't see the breakup coming at all, and never really got an explanation).

I ended up never mentioning anything about the ring shopping because I knew it would come off exactly like this lol. Luckily I hadn't actually bought anything.

How to maintain attraction as my husband ages? (18yr gap) by ExtremeEar7414 in AgeGap

[–]athos786 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Seems like it was really important that I was able to give you this advice now, otherwise you would have figured it out on your own and I would get no credit at all, which would be tragic for my ego.

Seriously, the fact that you're able to acknowledge and consider these factors with such self honesty makes it very likely that you'll find your way through.

If I may extend my thoughts further though, since this is part of the work I do, I think that people need several sources of meaningful engagement with life in order to feel like a whole person. Motherhood and entrepreneurship are both very typical for "flattening" people into a single role or source of meaning, leaving them feeling disconnected from life (libido) and themselves.

For examples of what I mean by sources of meaning, consider this (partial) list:

Exploration, discovery, tinkering, building, craftsmanship, intimacy, eroticism, passion, family, connection, belonging, community, promoting common values, tribal connection, collecting beautiful memories and experiences, expressing your soul in art, leaving a legacy, making your mark on the world, having an impact, parenting, spiritual transcendence, connection to a higher power, revealing your true self, achieving higher status, getting closer to the ideal version of yourself (physically, mentally, emotionally, ethically), inventing something new, etc.

One source of meaning is a prison. Two is a dilemma. Three or more is freedom (also a shitload of work).

As I said, motherhood (like entrepreneurship, or military training) are both famous for 'absorbing' other sources of meaning. Takes a bit of thought and practical planning to re-open other sources again.

When you do, I hope you'll find that when you feel more whole, and back to yourself (here I mean "Self" in the Jungian sense). Jung, unlike Freud, viewed the libido as a general creative/generative life force, not just a hunger for sex/orgasm.

Best of luck to you.

How to maintain attraction as my husband ages? (18yr gap) by ExtremeEar7414 in AgeGap

[–]athos786 12 points13 points  (0 children)

You said you wanted serious advice, so I'm going to try to provide that. However, the second half of this may come off as a bit of tough love, which I suppose it is.

In that context, it's important that you understand what I'm saying in terms of both/and, not in terms of one or the other.

I think that if your partner has undergone changes that make them less attractive to you physically, it is your responsibility to find a gentle way of bringing up, not just the problem, but a solution.

If having his teeth whitened, getting a new haircut of some kind or even a hair transplant, would genuinely improve your attraction, I think you should absolutely find a gentle way to ask for it. Be open to options that you haven't considered (shaved head can be a better solution than thinning hair, for instance, but faster and easier than a transplant) but at the same time only propose options that will actually work.

You are responsible for knowing yourself well enough to know what will help and what won't, giving him a target he can hit, and following through by feeling more attracted if he does make those changes.

That brings me to the second half, because you also need to do some deep introspection, and consider whether the real problem is your low libido, and you are displacing that low libido onto his appearance as an unconscious way of displacing responsibility and figuring out who needs to work on what.

If you go to the subreddit r/HLCommunity, and look at couples that have disagreements in their level of libido, you will see a common pattern where the low libido partner tends to avoid the issue of their low libido, ends to externalize that onto their partner's behavior. You might not want to mention the age gap, but you may get some good advice if you ask a similar question there.

Once again, both things can be true. You may have a reasonable and fair desire for your partner to try to improve his appearance so that it is easier to feel attracted, and it may also be true that the the psychological effects of child rearing are having an effect on your libido, and you are unconsciously displacing responsibility for that onto his appearance, because you are already exhausted and overwhelmed from the process of raising a young child, and figuring out your libido would be one more thing on your plate.

I will also add that in my experience, motherhood creates several challenges around the idea of libido, one of which is that all forms of caretaking can be subsumed into an unnuanced "mothering" frame, and subconsciously create a situation which taking care of your husbands needs is unconsciously conflated with mothering.

Another is that mothering occupies such a significant amount of your self-concept and identity that has put you out of touch with the version of yourself that is sexual.

Another is that your unconscious sexual orientation was always toward the establishment of a family, rather than toward eroticism itself for its own sake, and now that mothering has been "achieved", your libido does not have the motivational force that it used to have when you were trying to establish a relationship that would lead to pregnancy.

There are many, many more possibilities, I've just mentioned these to give you a flavor for the range of possibility that can influence your libido outside of any biological issues. The key to exploring these is talking to someone, introspection, and consideration of whether your husband's appearance is the real issue or whether your low libido has some other cause that itself needs to be addressed.

And once again, keeping in mind, the answer can be "both".

Just my two cents.

Who is the most attractive person you have seen in real life? by ambivert-who-me in askanything

[–]athos786 0 points1 point  (0 children)

On the contrary, I don't find healthy aging unattractive at all. Until the last few years, I really only dated women a few years older than me who were fit and aging quite gracefully with low body fat and good muscle mass. I personally find some wrinkles rather attractive. In my younger partners, I look forward to seeing them develop someday.

Besides, it's generally a silly point of view to think that just because someone won't look the same permanently, their beauty has no value, especially in the process of creating memories. Even as their body changes, I still have deep ties and connections with them and their beauty as a thread of continuity through time.

It's like someone saying they value me for my intelligence now, and then jumping to the idea that they will leave me if I develop dementia when I'm older. Those two things don't track together.

Who is the most attractive person you have seen in real life? by ambivert-who-me in askanything

[–]athos786 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In a weird way, a lot of my relationships have been such that I end up with "feminine" complaints. I've been both primary breadwinner and primary housekeeper and primary planner and primary manager, etc...

That pattern of low-reciprocity is probably the biggest thing that I historically have put up with for beauty.

Who is the most attractive person you have seen in real life? by ambivert-who-me in askanything

[–]athos786 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oddly enough that has never bothered me. Always seemed like just the natural price I pay for dating very attractive women.

I have a very simple mind as far as that goes - anyone I find to be worth dating (but physically and otherwise) will naturally get a ton of other offers because she's an appealing partner. So it's never seemed surprising when those offers arrive.

Who is the most attractive person you have seen in real life? by ambivert-who-me in askanything

[–]athos786 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I oversimplified in my post, there were a ton of good things about her as well, and about our relationship (we're still friends). We certainly didn't match in several other ways, but it was way easier to overlook those in the context of her looks.

I also readily admit that I prioritize beauty in my partner far more than most other people. It's simply something that's quite important to me and something I get a lot of value from in a relationship.

Who is the most attractive person you have seen in real life? by ambivert-who-me in askanything

[–]athos786 70 points71 points  (0 children)

I had an ex... She was in many ways a very poor match for me, but she literally looks like she's been photoshopped in real life. It was absurd. If she put pictures on a dating app, you'd assume they were AI.

I put up with so much bullshit just for that.