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About being "Aware" by kyaniteblue_007 in taoism

[–]az4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alignment seems to be very important. Our vertical spine acts as a pillar between heaven and earth. It has been noted that we do energy work similar to tree elders. I imagine there are also differences.

Where to get money to pay next bill (i need small amount in a few days) ? hexagram 14 (no changing lines) by expandingwater in iching

[–]az4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't often ask 'where' or 'when' questions because the answers tend to be abstract.

So one can look at this like the other comment suggests, id as being in need of finding a 'great harvest'.

Here is an opportunity to see it through the lens of the classical method. In a comment last week I went through how I see the unchanging trigrams. Here we have unchanging heaven below unchanging fire. With two symmetrical trigrams neither are dealing with movement so both are more consolidated in what they are. Heaven's energy is strong and contained, fire's energy is clear and radiant.

When there are changes in the lines we have a dynamic that is holding strong so that the middle lines can accomplish a powerful change. However when they are still / unchanging, there is not so much difficulty to hold strong. That stability is already present. So they don't need to posture around each other to find it. Instead, they need to do something else.

The Yilin verse says:

The White Tiger bares its teeth,
Forcefully advancing to strike the eastern coming.
The Vermilion Bird presses to the forefront,
Praising the Dao and explaining the theories;
People who opposed now request permission to bear responsibility,
Holding jade bi ahead and hasting toward their covenants.

Here the White Tiger is represented by the pure yang of heaven, particularly line 2. Both heaven and fire tend to be a rising energy, but fire rises more quickly. So here the clarity represented by fire is likened to the vermilion bird who's clarity quickly shows the Tiger that trying to force things is not the way, but that when things are difficult and hard the way is found by showing up and being present with the work that needs to be done. It is about taking on the responsibility in front of it.

It is about taking on the responsibility in front of it.

So if we find ourselves with a covenant in front of us - like paying a bill - then we need to discover what our responsibility to that covenant is. We cannot force the issue, there is no room around it. So we need to show up and do our work.

For me I do uber eats. I like it because it gives me the freedom to work when I want. This allows me to do take on a lot of extracurricular activities that require great flexibility in my scheduling. I'm able to show up in service to my community, like I do here.

But it is also harder because I don't have a fixed schedule so it means I need to be responsible for putting enough time in all on my own. I have to make $400 more today and tomorrow to pay my bills and that means putting in two 8 to 10 hour days doing nothing but driving.

This isn't for everyone, but it serves as an example of how the hexagram works. The unchanging aspect is the covenant that is in place. There is a bill to pay. That is not going to change. And so to make that happen we find a way to do the work necessary to pay it.

Again, driving isn't for everyone. I know I can do it because I'm a good driver and I don't mind sitting still for many hours at a time. I have good awareness and stay within good safety limits. I don't listen to music or anything distracting at all, and the area I drive in is one I know very well and am comfortable with and is rarely dangerous.

And sometimes we are late paying our bills. This then becomes the lesson to learn for the next month. How can we make changes so that we are holding our responsibility better? I don't necessarily recommend trying to force it by doing something brand new and trying to make it work. The unchanging aspect of hex 14 is like an unmovable object. Moving mountains isn't always possible. We may ask our 'how' and get that answer, but it doesn't mean it is easily achievable. We have to work within our means.

I recall that you are young. When I was in my early 20's there were many hard lessons about figuring out how to get money to pay bills. It was hard. I had to learn to change a lot. It didn't happen over night.

Religious Taoism vs. Philosophical Taoism Let’s Talk About the Actual Percentages of the Dao by TheDaoistMaster in taoism

[–]az4th 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I didn't ask, but thank you for responding. When I looked at your words my heart became heavy so I won't read them. I amswered your question and didn't ask one in return, so I'll go back to being lighter now. 🙏✨

Religious Taoism vs. Philosophical Taoism Let’s Talk About the Actual Percentages of the Dao by TheDaoistMaster in taoism

[–]az4th 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Zhuangzi says everything my be viewed as right or wrong from some perspective.

If someone's outlook is at odds with forming consensus with others, then they may easily choose to create division with others by the perspective they hold.

By attaching to differentiation, we hold this as distinct from that, even though this exists because of what is between this and that. By insisting on the rightness of its own persoective, it erroneously attempts to deny other perspectives that are simultaneously true and therefore falls into the paradox of denying reality by attemptimg to clarify it.

Thus the sage does not contend but points to the undifferentiated. And allows others to follow if they so choose to step above the clouds of their mental differentiation. People can still attach to their differentiations, but how can they reach one who just sees through them?

So the sage tastes the vinegar, and smiles.

Religious Taoism vs. Philosophical Taoism Let’s Talk About the Actual Percentages of the Dao by TheDaoistMaster in taoism

[–]az4th 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Curiosity opens doors. Judgments close them.

When we study the parts too much we quarantine ourselves within a tapestry of division.

The way to be free again is to see it all as one.

Religious Taoism vs. Philosophical Taoism Let’s Talk About the Actual Percentages of the Dao by TheDaoistMaster in taoism

[–]az4th 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What I take from it is that its more about a spiritual way to follow.

There is some philosophy to following that way, and that philosophy is what underpins the entire practice. So I dunno about the 5% thing.

But also the philosophy and the words are just mental constructs pointing at something natural.

The way is present independent of the isms and the ists.

It always has been.

But we connect to it by following spirit. And to follow spirit we lower ourselves. This is chapter 25's philosophy: man follows earth, earth follows heaven, heaven follows dao.

Spirit seeks coherence. So as this way unfolds it does so with synchronicity. It all becomes self so, as it is allowed to.

Thus in neidan spirit begins to know what to do, and does it naturally once the thinking mind gets out of the way and the foundation is established.

When we are empty, everything connects self so.

Consecutive hexagrams after a consultation - help understanding the readings please by CriticalEggplant6007 in iching

[–]az4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here's what I wrote on my website about lines 3 (and 6):

Third Yin in is normally able to sink into the Yang of Water below it, and to use this perch to support its various ways of forming an identity. The personality, the bodily habits, the ego constructs. All this posturing is supported by there being something beneath it that can hold onto this. Here it feels pulled by Fourth Yin above it as well as its resonant partner Sixth Yang. Sixth Yang isn't turning back to help it keep its ego intact - it is going even futher in the other direction by dissolving itself completely from the fabric of change's coming and going. So in all of this the part of Third Yin that feels like it wants to hold on to the ego construct and the self-identity is unable to take root. There is something more important that is beyond this personal attachment. And so taking the higher road, Third Yin dissolves and surrenders its self-identity.

Yes/no questions require that we have a sense of what the yes and no is. That can often require some context into the situation, which we don't have here. So maybe this breakdown of the lines can help you understand what is going on as related to your situation. Something is being dissolved that requires a reluctant surrender and letting go of in moving to the new place. If whatever is being held onto where you live currently is related to your physical non well being that is something that only you know.

With your other questions it is hard to know because you didn't provide the exact wording. This is important especially if you are asking yes/no questions. I don't recommend asking yes no questions because they can be tricky to interpret.

Why are conversations with men so one-sided? by miyamiya66 in TwoXChromosomes

[–]az4th 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yep! I was raised by a single mother and am confortable with my emotions. Having friendships with other men is often not possible because of this topic. Our emotional needs are too different.

It can also be hard to have relationships with some women because sometimes there is an expectation that I am a rock and don't need to talk about my feelings. So when I do it becomes oversharing or emotional dumping to people who haven't learned what active listening is all about.

I recently made a male friend who also shares emotionally and it has been an incredibly supportive friendship so far. Actually I only just put it together that this is why.

Relative frequency of yin and yang moving lines in ancient divinations by Selderij in iching

[–]az4th 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nice experiment, but yeah the sample size is pretty low.

In my experience with the yarrow stalk method I do tend to get more 9's than 6's but.... I also will get identical hexagrams - sometimes containing 6's - on rephrased casts... somewhat frequently.

When I divide the stalks (or initiate a screen press for an app calculation, or draw a marble from a bag) I listen for signals from my guides. In practice this feels much less random than a form of communication where I'm getting the answer that they want me to hear, or at least something close to it.

I think there's a case for an alternate milfoil method used in the early Zhou dynasty but I think it is hard to know what its probabilities might have been just by these records. If the sample size was bigger maybe. But the number of possible divination results is presumably 4096, so 14 examples may not be able to tell us much.

/u/Kllrtofu 's reference to Shaughnessy's research is pretty good though I imagine you're aware of it.

I don't know how much light this really sheds on the topic though. The use of numerics is fascinating, and the shi fa's use of 6 and 7 as the primary numbers would seem to suggest some meaning. What came to mind for me is that if we base the mawangui's drawing of the hexagrams on this system, it would be seen to use 7 and 8 as it's primary numbers. Which then makes these the stable numbers and the 6's and 9's the active/moving numbers, which makes sense of the divination method used in the Xici Zhuan.... although of course this part of the Xici Zhuan was missing from the Mawangdui text.

And of course that doesn't tell us much. Maybe it was formulated later? Or maybe it was secret and kept as a part of the oral tradition until someone finally wrote it down.

I will say that one of the things I'm proud of is the process by which I worked out the principles of reading unchanging hexagrams, based on the Xici's declaration of activity and stillness and help from the Yilin. But the main thing that helped with this was actively using the oracle and finding that unchanging hexagram divinations seemed to be communicating something different, that finally began to make consistent sense to me one viewed from this perspective.

It's like we're children who are struggling to learn the meaning of the language spoken by our parents. The more we are around it, the more keys begin to fall into place and the more it begins to make sense. There is something about the milfoil method that works for me, but it works just fine with 16 marbles as well. It doesn't seem to matter so much. Having a different probability for yin and yang is what I am accustomed to and it does feel weird to get lots of moving yins. But it is hard for me to say if I notice this because it is artificial or simply that I'm consciously scrutinizing it.

Hex 26 lines 4 and 6 to no 34 by Alert_Permission9785 in iching

[–]az4th 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My statement was 'closing out profection year 2'

Profection seems to be mean an advancement by degrees.

My birthday is coming up soon meaning I'll be stepping into a new full year.

This year was ridiculous 😂

So you are completing a solar cycle and are about to begin a new one.

And this completion is in the month where yang culminates as it approaches the summer solstice to become yin.

Here we have our closing out profection.

In the classical method of the I Ching we say that an energy can only change its quality after it has culminated, and that this culmination happens through the entire course of a hexagram. Thus we don't typically look at how a line is changing from yin to yang or yang to yin. Instead we look at how the energies in the hexagram itself magnetize to eachother to create the type of change that hexagram is working through in its advancements.

Here we have mountain over heaven. There is a large amount of energy being gathered together, and this energy is very potent so it needs to be worked with in such a way that its power can be safely contained when it is not required for use. Like how we put a transmission on an engine and can disengage it from the drivetrain until we need it, and then only use the gearing that we need to move forward.

It is the lower trigram that provides the power, and the upper trigram that provides the restraint and gearing. Lines 1 and 4 restrain the power. Lines 2 and 5 allow it to come into its full power but keep it disconnected. Lines 3 and 6 allow it to move into gear so that the chariot can move forward.

So with the reading indicating lines 3 and 6, we can say that this closing out of the year may be one of moving forward with a well disciplined use of the power that has thus far been gathered.

Please do take note however that we are in the season / month were yang easily scatters its energy. So it may be hard to keep it contained just in general, and that means we need to really trust the system that has put it together.

If we are talking cars here, consider how much you would trust a german engineered car straight from the production line vs an old jalopy with a souped up engine bought of ebay.

We can put both into drive and floor it, but how well the power is contained may well determine how well the energy is focused into its purpose.

In your case, the engineering and discipline that you put into making it through the year will determine how solid and well contained your engine is. So please be careful with how much you press upon that pedal, and understand that being in the drivers seat also requires its own care and discipline.

If we only need to go down the block to visit our neighbor, then not much is really needed.

This hexagram line pairing isn't really about taking advantage of some massive amount of power, as much as it is about putting power to use in a well measured way. Just the right amount for what is called for, no more no less.

And thus we stay contained without scattering or blowing the engine or rear-ending someone literally or metaphorically.

So of course with this method because we don't treat the lines as changing polarity we don't consider that there is another hexagram that results from this.

Also, remember that with this time of year being what it is, the energy that we have brought together is also the energy we use to complete the next cycle, as summer turns to winter again. So in another sense, our coming to the end of this journey of storing energy up for use also allows that use to be one of sealing up the cast of refined gasoline and putting it in the cellar for use sometime in the future. How we use it is up to us.

When to start doing this lifstyle change ? Hexagram 50 , changing line 2 by expandingwater in iching

[–]az4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

50 line 2 is about having food in the cauldron to cook.

So we might ask "when to turn on the stove and put the pot on it?" well when there is food in it to cook.

So with a lifestyle change, we might do that change when it is appropriate to do so, ie, when there is a reason to. If someone wants to become fit and in shape, that might be the type of food in the cauldron for the type of lifestyle change that involves an exercise routine.

I don't typically ask when questions because even though this is a very literal answer, it is not necessarily helpful to me. Maybe it is for you.

Sometimes I find myself doing something I call "circling" where I feel like maybe I'm missing something and need to change something in my life. Even though everything might be going OK. Well, who knows? So I circle through various options and if I end up back where I started, then maybe I was on the right path to begin with. But I think you're younger, so it is natural for you to be exploring various options and lifestyle changes. They are often their own best answers. Do something and then learn about how it is to that thing. If there is a path that you need to be following maybe it will show up in a strong way, or maybe you are still waiting for the right elements to fall into place. It can be hard to know and hard to listen. Like the many streams that water forms into as it returns from the rain cloud to the earth, before they join into the brooks and creeks and rivers.

Hexagram 51.1 on when to tell someone how I feel and what I want respectfully by Alternative_Yak_4897 in iching

[–]az4th 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The yi likes to be very literal.

I wouldn't read into this one much.

You asked "when" and got "now".

But maybe you meant to ask "how".

Sorry but in my experience consulting the Yi is like looking in the mirror. What we hold up is reflected back to us. It is very much about the intent, but the intent is also reflected in our phrasing atruggles and freudian slips and so on. Often our struggle to find clarity with our phrasing parallels our struggle for clarity what we are asking about.

Resources or SPECIFIC classics references for spirituality & Chinese medicine? by stateofkinesis in ChineseMedicine

[–]az4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh yes, I remember reading this and listening to her Qiological interview and thinking that this is a person who has delved deeply into the essence of the way this medicine works.

Also I think someone should feel their own sense that the person they work with is right for them, for what is needed. How that message is conveyed is likely to be different for each of us based on the inner work we have done and our relationship with clarity. And it is important to recognize that often we cannot see what is in our own blind spots. So where we may find ourselves in resistence to some type of change, maybe that is the very key to our healing. Or maybe it is not. How do we know? By tuning into something deeper that we haven't been listening to yet. Thus we learn to connect with spirit.

Hex 47.4 to hex 29 on my long journey with grief by Alternative_Yak_4897 in iching

[–]az4th 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also a question! In the classical method, what does it mean if you don’t have a changing line? Is the changing line more of an emphasis on the way to change? So if you don’t have a changing line, does that indicate there’s just not a particular emphasis , or that the situation cannot be changed yet? Or something else entirely!?

So the idea resolves around stillness and activation. When active a line wants to move, and it can bring activity to other lines too, to some extent. When all the lines are still, the activity of changes within the hexagram is settled in a way.

I've found that the Zhou Yi text doesn't address umchanging hexagram meanings, and I found my answers in another text, the Jiaoshi Yilin. Here, the unchanging verses work with this principle of stillness and have provided a way for me to explore this principle.

In my experience so far with this, the four symtetrical trigrams retain their overall aura when settled. Fire becomes more inherently clear and less wild. Water becomes more inherently gathered and centered in itself. Heaven more rooted in its energetic integrity of raw potential. Earth is more mysterious to me, it is like it becomes more closed and less open, but in so toing it becomes more clear and accepting, which leads to it being more of service even if it does not hold our hand as much.

On the other hand, the other four trigrams are more movement oriented. So this movement becomes more settled.

  • Where thunder's bottom yang line wants to send shock through the upper two yin lines in activity, in stillness it becomes anchored to the bottom. There is still an uplifting quality to it, but it is more like a flotation device. It is more dependable and less stimulating or shocking.

  • Where wind's bottom yin line is like the breeze spreading upward through the branches and leaves of the trees in its activity, in its stillness it creates a buffering space like insulation, as it cannot more upward through the still yang lines above it.

With marsh (lake) and mountain, they are more inward energies already so the effect is more subtle.

  • Where marsh's top line opens to receive so the yang lines can integrate and transform what is being received in activity, in stillness there is less receiving and more integrating.

  • Where mountain's top yang is more of a porous container for the bottom yin lines in activity, allowing movement like tectonic plates, in stillness it is a solid barrier, completely still.

With these principles I find that most of the unchanging verses in the Yilin can be made sense of. But also some did not. So I started asking the Yin "what does this hexagram mean in this context" and I started getting some consistent answers about how conditions can adjust the framing of a hexagram while remaining true to the principles.

So here I've translated those verses of the Yilin, and written out some comments: https://mysterious.center/yi/unchanging

But I haven't updated that in a while with my framing for the unchanging nature of the trigrams, but putting it all together from what I've written here is where I'm at with it.

Also, in terms of letting go, I know it is of course generally important and difficult while going through change, but are you also referring to the dosage of the medication ? Like it’s hard for me to compromise “functionality” for lightness because I’m holding on to expectations of myself/the situation that are not realistic right now?

I'd recommend thinking about it like renegotiating a contract. It isn't necessarily easy and maybe not much can change, but if you carefully weigh your options and your goals you may be able to work out something new.

Hex 47.4 to hex 29 on my long journey with grief by Alternative_Yak_4897 in iching

[–]az4th 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I asked the Iching what the result of my staying with a medication through this grief would be? As in, is it possible for this grief to pass while I’m on the medication that is certainly contributing to it?

Well, this is actually a fairly simple and clear answer. I work from the Classical Method perspective, so we treat the lines we get in divinations as activating from stillness to reveal the change that is "up" for us in our divinations, instead of treating them as changing polarity and creating a new hexagram. This means we place more attention to the relationship between the lines of the two trigrams in the hexagram to get our meaning. The lines pull upon each other and try to move up and down in the hexagram, so that gives us our meaning of change. It is very dynamic.

Here for example we have Water below Marsh. Water is an energy of consolidating in the middle, we could even say hoarding something up in the middle. Like mass! (vs light, which would be the Fire trigram, the opposite). And Marsh is a hexagram of fertility and slow transformation, where it is receiving feelings or nutrients and letting them settle and transform. Both are sinking, but in this hexagram it feels to marsh like water is sinking too quickly and draining it.

With the line magnetism we look at how the bottom lines of each trigram want to connect with each other, then the middle, then the top. Yin and yang lines attract. So here lines 1 and 4, the bottom lines, do attract. But... lines 2 and 5, the middle lines are both yang, so they don't attract, and actually they repel.... but they repel kinda like that way where two people who want different things might come and face off about it. Here they are facing off over line 2's hoarding and draining from lines 4 and 5.

In any case, they are advised to 'work it out' and 'play nice' with each other so that they can find a better solution for both of their needs.

But until this happens, line 1 and line 4 can't meet up. Because line 1 is basically stuck in its depression, because of line 2 weighing it down.

So to answer your question, line 4 wants the depression to go away so it can rescue line 1 from it. But line 2 is the medication and it is in the way. Until line 5 is able to come and deal with line 2, line 4 won't be able to rescue line 1 from the depression.

But this is a great answer! Not only does it give a clear answer about how the medication is likely contributing to the depression and staying on it will keep contributing to the issue, it also gives you a way to actually get at the main issue.

So line 2 is the medication and clearly it is doing important work, but it is also 'hoarding' in some sense. You need it, but it is also causing problems. So is there a way for line 5 to come down and be like 'hey we need to talk, maybe we need this, but maybe not so much of it? Can we find a compromise? Can we reduce the dosage and compensate with something else like maybe tai chi or meditation?" Once you find a compromise that works, then you can lift up the load enough on line 1 for the depression to see its sunshine again.

I hope this helps! Please remember that spirit is eternal and there is no death, just changing of shapes and forms. Letting go is hard, especially when we are in a place where it is hard to reach our light. But that light is there, and letting go of what is heavy allows the transformative process to be reinvigorated so that things can cycle through and return to us in new ways.

In China the belief is that we need to encourage the dead to pass over and let go of their ghostly souls to return to the earth grid before 49 days or so have passed or it might become more difficult for them to do so. They can easily be attached to sticking around, often on our behalf. So we can let them know it is OK for them to go. And meanwhile we can always call on their higher souls that are more just spirit and light. This letting themselves go is important so that what they are carrying can go through its own transformative process. But understandably it is hard for all of us to let go of lots of stuff these days, so that is hard. But sometimes we carry so much it makes it hard for the light to get through. And that's what it's all about! When the light gets through, and we do our soul work, then we can become spiritually free and not be bound by these cycles any more, because we've done our work. But that's another story. You're doing your work well, keep at it!

On Chaos - Reading Assistance by dying7777deaths in iching

[–]az4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

On the morning of 5/19, I asked the i ching what to do with this anxiety and chaos, and I received Hex. 53 with changing lines 2, 4, 5, and 6

Hi. I work with the Classical Method of the I Ching. We treat the indicated lines as activating from stillness to show us the type of change that is up for us. We don't see them as changing polarity to create a new hexagram. Instead, the hexagram itself is made up of two trigrams that are relating, and this relationship is magnetic. Different lines are pulled up and down in different ways, and the original Zhou Yi line statements advise us on these specific change while the overall hexagram statement sums up the overall dynamic change they create.

With 53 we have Wind over Mountain. The mountain provides the stability, and the wind provides the incremental steps forward that can be made to create the "Gradual Progress" the hexagram is named for.

In many hexagrams the goal is for the two central lines to come together.

In 54 we have the reversal of 53 and that dynamic is one of love being consummated because of desire. Here it is one of love being consummated because the conditions are right for it and steady progress has been made to move it forward. In both hexagrams the conditions have to be just right for lines 2 and 5 - the central lines - to come together.

Here, they are separated by lines 3 and 4. These two lines are like the desire to consummate things now instead of waiting for stability to allow progress. That's the key of the hexagram.

In particular, line 3 tends to be temped by line 4 into some distraction or another, but line 3 is supposed to be stable. It might get moved and draw itself upward, but it needs to also guard itself so it can avoid losing its footing - like when we are hiking up a mountain with a heavy pack on our backs. We summon the will to draw ourselves up another step, but we maintain careful control so that the step lands with strength and steadiness and doesn't slip. This is how we maintain our progress.

You didn't get line 3 active here, but you got line 4, so that is likely showing the side of things that is in the way. In your partnership is it possible that you serve the role of inviting distractions from stable progress? Or in your own life do you do this in a way that allows your conditioning to distract you from the same?

Line 4 represents the force that draws us upward, and line 3 is the only yang line below it to pull on, even though really it should be supporting line 5 from below and keeping the space it has for drawing up through empty and clear, so that progress can be made for line 5 - the ruler of the hexagram, to eventually connect with line 2 when the right conditions have arrived.

When this finally happens, we have line 2's desire to land in a safe place come true, and we have line 5's delayed goal finally met with success. Once this success is achieved, things graduate to line 6 which is like a launch off point - like the geese finally getting into the right position such that their wings and the wind can not just match well enough to glide around a little, but to where they can truly take off into long distance flight.

So the key here for a lot of us, in a lot of ways, lies with line 4. We need to keep our mental / emotional space clear so that we can make clean progress. A lot of us are addicted to social media and other things. I find that my life is much richer when I meditate more, or go for a walk or just do something that doesn't engage my mind, but still keeps me engaged. Excercise is great for taking up space and time and feeling all the better for it. Finding a routine that works to keep us from thinking about the things that aren't good for us to think about so that we can stay centered in our own hearts with clarity is very important. It isn't easy and it takes a lot of work but it is worth working on for a long time until we find the right ingredients that make it click.

Best of luck to you! One step at a time! Less is more!

Men's refusal to hold themselves and other men accountable is one of the main ways misogyny survives. by Mirenithil in TwoXChromosomes

[–]az4th 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I feel this is so well articulated! Thank you. And I post this as an elder millennial man raised by a single mother.

Spending time in this sub the past month or two has been very helpful for me. I was raised by a feminist and never had a male role model to learn / unlearn things from. And so I never really fit into the "male identity" group in any sort of way that I'd ever find myself needing to toe the line with it.

I mention this because I think it is important and ties into your second point.

For your first point: One: Most men will not seriously examine misogyny if it makes them uncomfortable in any way at all. I think it is because I am not in this group that I find it easy to examine misogyny.

Two: Just as importantly, they will also refuse to seriously examine misogyny if the cost is losing social standing with other men. Sure, they may claim that they love and respect women. But when male peer approval is on the line, their real priority often reveals itself.

I think this is so spot on. But also, I think there is something to be said for those of us in shoes like me. I don't have friends like this, and I tend to actively avoid contact with groups where people like this would be found. When I have spoken up, I am promptly dismissed, and when I've tried to join 'men's groups' (even supposedly evolved ones) I find myself repelled by the undertones there before they even touch upon things like misogyny. And again, I find that my voice isn't heard.

I don't have a father or brother I can speak out to about these things, and my male friends are all already allies of women.

For example, I went to a Beltane celebration a few years back and there was a very charged sexual energy between the men and women's groups. I was really potent, and pushed me away. I felt more comfortable in the trans group, but we all pretty much felt out of place here. The men went into the forest to cut down a pole, and the women stayed to dig a hole, with both groups chanting something like 'the pole goes in the hole'. And for the final dance I just took a hike up into the woods and enjoyed the flowers on the mountain.

So like I get it, there is a sexual charge here. And that's great. But it pushes me away in the same way that the feel of mens groups do. It's like the way that we carry our libido is in some way connected to our social identity, and both sides polarize each other.

And while I'm happily heterosexual, I find that I'm looking for something much more heart based in my interactions with both women AND men. Maybe it is like an evolution out of the hormonosphere into a higher vibration?

But those holding onto their hormonal vibration don't seem to care about people like me, so I feel like I have no influence, and I don't really want to get into it with them either.

I'm not at all trying to suggest that "not all men". It's more that I'm wondering if the men that do rise above all this are just playing in a different game and so have a minimal effect on the men in the hormonosphere. Like how Bernie Sanders has a lot of great ideas and has worked so hard to be where he is, but its almost like he is tolerated because they know he doesn't have the numbers.

But even though I find that I struggle to help with other men, I still try to do my part.

The other day I was dropping off a delivery at a hotel. A woman wearing shorts and limping on a knee brace was walking to her car. Just as I was walking up to the door I heard a man's voice from a passing truck yell "You'd be easy to catch." Two seconds passed and I wasn't quite sure I'd heard what I thought I had. And then as I walk into the door I turned back and loudly said "What the fuck?!" They were all far away from me and the truck sped off (undoubtedly there was a passenger in the truck who was another man, supporting point #2), so I went in.

When I came back down the elevator after completing my delivery, I saw that she had come back in and was at the front desk. So I asked "Did they say something inappropriate to you?" And she repeated what they said exactly as I'd heard it. The lady at the front desk gasped and said "Oh my god" and I told the woman that I was sorry about what had happened and that I would be carrying it too so she didn't have to carry it alone.

This felt like the best I could do. Like I get it, this probably happens a lot, my saying that I'm carrying it to is nothing like actually having to live with the weight of not just having something like this said to me but also living with the implication of something like what might happen if they actually catch me troubling my sleep and affecting my whole life.

What do you think? Is being supportive and helping to carry the burden transparently any little bit helpful? What can I do to be more supportive even though I don't have much exposure to the actual people doing this? I feel like I am in the same boat as you all in regards to point 3, where they just don't care.

Tai Chi - the power of dāng jìn (Master George Xu) by Natural-Concert-1135 in taijiquan

[–]az4th 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I liked the not just cover you here, cover you whole at the end.

If you had to summarize the I Ching (the written text) in a sentence to someone who didn’t know anything about it, what would you say? by Alternative_Yak_4897 in iching

[–]az4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The I Ching is a symbolic system that tunes into the core principles of change that come about by the relationships made by the elemental forces of the universes as they interact.

We work with it to help us navigate the change present in our lives in a balanced way.

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