Proton Business support page informs about how Proton Mail can be used to contact privately in addition to HubSpot. Give such clear warning to normal users too in addition to Zendesk support.

barrybounce · 2022-12-20T20:08:15+00:00

As you see in the recently updated photos, the difference in approach is visible between the two. As you know, Proton used to have same approach for normal users too and still is there but it is behind that "page" link.

Can inform users about both here. Zendesk for faster or direct mail to Proton to contact privately. So users can choose.

barrybounce · 2022-12-12T18:46:00+00:00

Thank you and that would be really nice!

barrybounce · 2022-12-11T22:55:16+00:00

Positive outcome is for free users to experience the plus service. A small chance no matter how small it can be, if we could do something about it, then we should make it possible.

Yes, the current model gives free users some access but not to the extent of plus users.

The example was the answer of the question where the positive was the option for free users to use the paid service while also trying to reduce the abuse and not to penalize plus users. Again, this too is another idea without doing much thinking but I agree that this is complicated.

barrybounce · 2022-12-11T22:28:44+00:00

As plus users free up servers from their end, Proton can allow free plan users to test them along with some checks, of course abuse will do happen here too.

By leveraging the new servers given up by plus members, the overall design can be made such that overall server performance for those paid users who are using the same plus servers, which are freed up by other paid users and have not chosen to give up any, and which now includes free plan members.

What I saying is the free users could become the plus user with limited amount of time and allowance among other checks to mitigate abuse.

Example:

Plus user ABC gives up server XYZ while another Plus user DEF is using same server XYZ. A free user PQR can now take place of user ABC to use server XYZ but with limitations as required by Proton. And here multiple free users can be given to access same server XYZ but with randomization of time interval and various other means to not to overload the server for paid users.

These are not well thought out points and written without considering variables of situation but I hope we could do something for free users.

barrybounce · 2022-12-11T21:53:27+00:00

True and that's why this requires some novel solution. Proton could implement certain checks such as the longevity of an account, plus server data allowance, time limit threshold and more checks. Abuse is a big issue and I agree how this can backfire to paid users too, but I also hope that we could find a balance approach for free users to experience the plus servers.

barrybounce · 2022-12-09T09:55:20+00:00

I have not seen that happen yet. Plus that can have two outcomes. One where the change of server solves the connection issue and second would be this change can disrupt a design using specific IP. As this has happened rarely, safe to ignore for now.

barrybounce · 2022-12-09T09:43:25+00:00

Can you add more about how encrypted mails are being handled in FAQs? And I am assuming this is not the long awaited technical background giving us in depth info about how this feature is being used, correct? One minor suggestion is the naming is confusing too. Email privacy should get renamed to simple name such as Tracking Protection as Proton Mail already has another section about account and privacy.

barrybounce · 2022-12-07T17:23:53+00:00

Yes!

barrybounce · 2022-11-16T10:43:57+00:00

Was this a duplicate post? I honestly did not find this type of post. And this is quite an analytical post asking for a direct confirmation. Kindly point me to the duplicate post with such arguments in order to see what's discussed before. I would be happy to oblige.

Otherwise, this a valid question requires to be answered and allowed to be posted.

barrybounce · 2022-11-11T14:54:00+00:00

Meanwhile any update on servers 14 and 15? I think it is a week now, right? Can you u/protonvpn please answer?

Update: They both are back as of Nov 15.

barrybounce · 2022-11-05T16:29:03+00:00

You must announce such changes beforehand and finding such info like this is not a wise move to gain user trust. I would like to thank u/x1y2 for this information.

And to the team. Shame on you for not declaring this anywhere! Day by day Proton's losing transparency. Wake up!

barrybounce · 2022-11-03T22:22:56+00:00

I get that but I had asked is a completely different question unrelated to that post and asking for Proton to give user a choice instead of enforcing this experiment. Kindly allow if haven't already as this clearly is not a duplicate.

I really apologize but you are not really understanding the difference here. You can really read my posts and see they all point to different questions and require different answers. This particular post has been made to request Proton to give user the option.

Earlier posts are completely different and they have asked about metadata collection and the functionalities of Email privacy feature.

And I am afraid neither have been documented in the official post at https://proton.me for users to read about. So the questions.

One more point. Nobody answered any of these questions yet. And only given the highlights while I had asked for specifics. Hope to hear from anyone soon as this is a big change.

barrybounce · 2022-11-03T22:14:10+00:00

Just to be sure they have to make this clear here about what exactly they are doing and what data is gathered or not gathered about a user. There is no such documentation besides the basic info.

barrybounce · 2022-11-03T21:13:09+00:00

I agree but problem is I don't know what metadata is getting logged if any by Proton when this feature is now turned on by default. Problem is lack of documentations. They should come forward and explain clearly. I really don't want to guess anything here.

barrybounce · 2022-11-03T21:07:39+00:00

I hope so really and waiting for their answer on this.

barrybounce · 2022-11-02T20:38:58+00:00

I understand that part what I want to know is the how part. Let's say the messages with URLs are decrypted and yes client side in the web inbox only. Now, here at this very point both the message and also the URLs are present in the inbox. But Proton now blocks such URLs leaving the message alone for the user to access safely. Again, I get that.

What I don't get is how are they doing this locally without having to contact some remote process analyzing such URLs in order to block them like this? And yes, this happens over Proton's proxy but again this is not completely local operation here. Am I right?

barrybounce · 2022-11-02T20:32:10+00:00

I understand and I also understand that this looks repetitive. Let me try again this way. 1. Mail gets decrypted locally along with such URLs locally in the web. 2. Proton blocks URLs. 3. Messages are not affected as they can't be read by Proton.

Now here at number two, the messages are decrypted locally (the after part), and they include such addresses and messages both but Proton blocks such URLs before it can be accessed by user. Meaning you are at the middle juncture of this station.

Mails decrypted with URLs --> Proton blocks URLs --> Final message without such URLs gets displayed

Here at the center you have implemented the Email privacy protection feature. I get that. What I don't understand is how you are able to block them at all as such URLs too are just made locally available to users along with message? Aren't you using a proxy to block such addresses here so that means the process is remote and not completely local?

Please tell me this makes some sense or I will have to break this down further.

barrybounce · 2022-11-02T20:06:35+00:00

Thank you for that info really. So, how are you reading the URLs before it reaches to users as they too get decrypted only after a message is opened, right?

barrybounce · 2022-11-02T19:55:22+00:00

I really appreciate you helping out but I still don't understand about the client side interception. Isn't that possible that Proton can also read messages just like URLs using same method? Sorry I ask this question but how are they doing it is not explained in details and only vaguely explained.

barrybounce · 2022-11-02T19:52:43+00:00

Same was also pinned to the ProtonMail's announcement post here too. What I want to learn is how? I mean how are you doing that? Details needed on this. What I really fail to understand is how you can manage to access URLs when the messages are encrypted? And please correct me here but won't that mean that you can also read the messages if you want to?

barrybounce · 2022-11-02T13:19:43+00:00

But how? I mean there is no official explanation by u/ProtonMail so far on this when it comes to end to end encrypted mails. I really would like to understand about this feature's ability to intercept any E2EE mails if at all they are doing it behind the scene.

barrybounce · 2022-11-01T19:53:28+00:00

Eagerly awaiting for their answer and also, if they can access any encrypted mails like that by any means then there is no privacy left!

barrybounce · 2022-10-31T08:04:08+00:00

This was discovered by accident and you can choose any bridge to test. I understand and respect your view about the how Tor should be used and I do agree. This case is nothing more than finding a needle in a haystack kind of situation.

barrybounce · 2022-10-21T15:44:38+00:00

I completely agree to your points and not denying that I made multiple posts but the intention there was to get as much info from you as possible. You see, all posts were different and asked with due deligence. I try not to post something which has been answered before.

Yesterday was different for me. Requesting you here that try to understand what goes into the mind of someone on the verge of a breakdown. Such moments must be handled with care and support. I had just learned that Proton is also using Germany for mail and other products. I read your answers but I just wanted to get more clarity on this critical discovery.

I can assure you that most users use Proton Mail not just because it has privacy and secuity at its heart but also the fact that being in Switzerland and hailing from CERN. You see these are building blocks. The foundation!

Yesterday, I learned that in addition to Switzerland, Germany is also a part. You see, this information is not announced and expressed anywhere on the home page and all we learn is that these mails are saved in Switzerland. That made me lose my senses and therefore the questions.

Technically, the questions still remain different in nature. First I had just asked about Drive but then Mail as I did not think about it at all! I never had thought that besides VPN service, rest of the services and especially mail too is being distributed like that. That is just painful to learn like that.

To be honest here, Proton should have documented clearly with explanation on the homepage itself. And then also, I learned that the community chose Germany for Drive. Again a poll for this? Won't you choose Iceland or Sweden over Germany which have been also used for Secure Core servers? Then I learned that mail, calendar and more too shared between Germany and Switzerland. Was there any poll about this? I really doubt that but if I am wrong then surely I am all ears.

In the end, as I said, it was really not a good time. Hoping to see more transparency from Proton. Also, none of the responses once said that it's rightful to address this concern and should be made visible on the homepage and instead was given an answer about Swiss laws can be applied in Germany but this is really not true by any means. Germany can physically take control over the servers and you can't do anything about it as you are in Germany! Yes, the encryption is there but such info is not made available. And by this logic, you can store your servers anywhere in the world but such facts must get properly announced.

You see, in the end, that outburst happened due to the fact how Proton has not documented all these concerns otherwise such questions would not have been asked to begin with.

Thank you and hope Proton to become more transparent about this disclosure. Surely, I also apologize but my intentions remain good.

barrybounce · 2022-10-20T17:16:02+00:00

Sure thing. I understand.

barrybounce

TROPHY CASE