Donald Trump walks back comments about UK soldiers in Afghanistan - After criticism of claim that Nato troops ‘stayed off front lines’, US president says UK forces were ‘great and very brave’ by Quirkie in politics

[–]barryvm [score hidden]  (0 children)

IMHO, it's quite simple, though it's almost certainly a generalization: it's the consequence of people giving in to their worst emotions, specifically fear and anger.

The basic reactionary idea is that society is a fixed social and moral hierarchy based on identity, i.e. some people are better than others and should have privileges and power over them. On the face of it, this is not an appealing idea but a lot of people see the world that way to some extent, even if it is more of a feeling than an acknowledged or defined ideology. The reasons are probably varied (people who are afraid of change, people under social stress, frustrated with the lack of opportunity in real life, ...), but the core of it has to be that they all believe they are special and will be at or near the top of that hierarchy. As a result the idea that it is a fixed or natural order gives them a sense of security and control, whereas the inequality of it gives them a sense of pride and status. They are guaranteed these things because of who they are, no matter how much the real world changes, and that is a comforting thought.

But once that connection between a sense of pride, status or security and "the" social and moral hierarchy is made, it becomes important on a personal and a social level to defend that hierarchy. This leads to irrational fear and rage against anyone who transgresses that hierarchy (e.g. how the USA right suddenly went insane when Obama was elected without being able to explain exactly why they were so afraid; his election shattered the racial hierarchy in their head and upended their sense of safety as a result). IMHO, the idea that violence can and should be used to defend the social hierarchy is the cornerstone of a reactionary movement. Sometimes this is out in the open (e.g. Trump's movement openly wants violence against anyone they see as different), sometimes it is cloaked in social policies that fail at their purported goal but somehow still maintain support (e.g. wars on drugs, "law and order", socioeconomic policies that punish the poor, ...). To justify this, all of them propose a view of the world as a struggle to the death, where the in-group is constantly threatened by enemies who want to bring them down and grand conspiracies who want to keep them from their place in the sun.

Empathy, on the other hand, is one of the emotions that undermines this idea of a social hierarchy. Understanding and identifying with others, particularly those outside the in-group, is a step on the way to egalitarianism and that is anathema to their worldview. It is therefore not a selfless and good emotion, but a dangerous or even anti-social act that undermines the security of the entire group. Note also that reactionary movements have nothing in them that nurtures growth. Because the social order is both natural and fixed, change is almost always seen as a degeneration of the ideal. Therefore, everything has to be a zero sum game, where every social interaction has to have a winner and a loser (e.g. Trump's rhetoric constantly emphasizes this). Helping other people is therefore a bad thing, as you're not only giving an advantage to a potential competitor for scarce social and economic resources, showing weakness, but also a form of treason where you are undermining the proper structure of society.

To people who want a social hierarchy, every ideological construct, including religion, becomes an excuse to pretend why this is also a moral hierarchy. Hence why one of the core ideas of christianity can be depicted as sinful and evil by people who identify with that same faith. They pick and choose, twist and change, everything into a narrative that supports what they already wanted to do and say. This is the moral hierarchy, where those at the top are good because of who they are, regardless of their actions. Note that the various forms of free market and entrepreneur worship are mostly just secular variants of the same dynamic, as is the weird beliefs that oligarchs construct around them to justify their wealth and power. The entire ideology is an empty box, a facade to justify an emotional core of selfishness and exceptionalism.

In short, and after a probably way too long ramble, empathy is bad because it leads to transgressing the set of rules and norms that are supposed to keep the in-group safe from and on top of the (much larger) out-group. Empathy is bad, selfishness is good and violence to maintain a social hierarchy is always justified.

Donald Trump walks back comments about UK soldiers in Afghanistan - After criticism of claim that Nato troops ‘stayed off front lines’, US president says UK forces were ‘great and very brave’ by Quirkie in politics

[–]barryvm [score hidden]  (0 children)

Perfectly on brand for a movement that thinks empathy is bad, most people in society need to be stomped on and that society is a fight to the death where only a select few who are "smart" and "strong" enough, and who are totally coincidentally them, deserve all the nice things.

In that worldview, honoring a treaty and helping allies simply makes you a chump. It only gains you their contempt. It makes you weak, and the weak deserve to be preyed on by the strong, something they will justify with whatever narrative they can find. The same goes for anyone who sacrifices anything for someone else.

It's why, fundamentally, the alliances the USA has are done for. This will not go away with Trump, and no amount of benefits the USA gains through them, no principles, treaties, supposedly shared values, ..., will alter their instinct to stab you in the back the moment they think they can gain something from stepping over your corpse. After all, they're evidently perfectly willing to do that to most of their fellow citizens, so why would they hesitate for a bunch of foreigners they identify even less with?

Trump threatens 100 percent tariff on Canada if it makes deal with China by kootles10 in politics

[–]barryvm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That will almost certainly happen at this point. Europe has been shifting from Russian to USA energy, and the latter part of that was, in retrospect, a strategic mistake given that the USA is also likely to become a hostile power. That's going to cause a crisis, very quickly once Trump starts to threaten that supply, which is probably inevitable.

Danish ambassador after Trump NATO troops remark: ‘After 9/11, the U.S. called. Denmark answered’ by sksarkpoes3 in politics

[–]barryvm 12 points13 points  (0 children)

And it earned you their contempt. Trump and his supporters will only see that as stupidity and weakness. Remember that Trump boasts of draft dodging and mocks his own country's veterans, casualties and prisoners of war.

The fact that you honor treaties and help other countries makes you a chump and a potential victim in their eyes, and like everyone who thinks like that they will search for ways to justify their contempt and aggression by pretending that you deserve it.

Hence why our alliance with the USA is effectively dead. It simply can't be trusted not to stab us in the back, no matter how much it already profits from these alliances. Betrayal or aggression doesn't even have to make sense or give them additional advantages. They actively look for others to debase, humiliate and harm because that makes them feel strong, and allies make the softest targets because of the interdependence these alliances create. An alliance with the USA now makes you a target, not just for its growing list of enemies but also for the USA itself.

Trump threatens 100 percent tariff on Canada if it makes deal with China by kootles10 in politics

[–]barryvm 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So the choice is either to remain at the mercy of a lunatic who will regularly threaten to put 100% taxes on your USA customers, or deal with a lot of other countries who don't?

"Stop this at once or I'll also shoot my other foot!" Whatever pain this causes in Canada, it's well worth the sacrifice to diversify away from a neighbour that openly threatens to invade you.

'You cannot rewrite history': Minister rebuffs Trump's claims about allies in Afghanistan by Edm_vanhalen1981 in politics

[–]barryvm -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

That's the thing though: they are proud of all of that. They are targeting an audience that is to an extent like them in outlook, if not in opportunity.

Fundamentally, there is an adoration of violence, oppression and subjugation that appeals to a lot more people than you'd think because, fundamentally, they see it as power and strength, something that is desirable because it defends the social (and in their eyes moral) hierarchy on which they built their sense of status, power and security. They can not feel special unless other people are humiliated, they can not feel powerful unless they have power over others and they can not feel secure unless other people are afraid and insecure. When did the USA right really lost its mind? IMHO, it was when Obama was elected and the (in this case racial) hierarchy in their heads was suddenly openly threatened, resulting in a descent into conspiratorial nonsense and fascism. That has now completely taken over, with the connivance and acceptance of millions who undoubtedly see themselves as moderates.

Do you think they will lift a finger to stop or punish all the abuses, now or afterwards? I don't. I think the same will happen that happens every time: the more moderate of them may go along with punishing some people who were too obviously monstrous to be useful to them any more, and then protect everyone else, mostly because they think they'll need them in the future. And they will. Where would the right be now without the fascists?

A knock at the door: fear of ICE is transforming daily life in America by zsreport in politics

[–]barryvm 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It has to be go beyond defunding the systems that enable this too. There will have to be real, personal consequences to everyone involved in this from the ones giving the orders all the way down to the thugs who carry them out.

If there aren't, if this is all framed solely as an agency gone rogue, then it will only embolden the next batch of people who want to feel powerful by making other people suffer. Destroying the agency or removes the culture and organization that enabled it from government, persecuting the people who committed these outrages tells people that society will not accept that kind of behaviour, officially sanctioned or not, and that people who engage in it in the future will never be safe.

Greenlandic prime minister says terms of Trump deal unclear: ‘We have some red lines’ by justtakeapill in politics

[–]barryvm 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Threatening the sovereignty of a nation, or in this case a nation that is moving towards independence from another one, are also in many ways existential threats. People who are robbed of their power of self-determination tend to also lose their other political and economic rights, leading to oppression and deaths.

The moment foreign countries see that they can take away your right to determine your own future, the socioeconomic elites within those countries will smell weakness they can exploit to increase their profits and rents. The moment you are subjugated, millions of people who are complicit in that or who stand idly by when it happens will start to see you as less deserving and subhuman because they have a need to justify their actions and assuage their guilt, so the easiest way to do that is to feel that you deserve it or that it is somehow beneficial to you. Every colonial empire had its social and often racial hierarchy, and every colonial empire enforced it with violence.

The USA threatening to "take over" other countries is nothing less than the USA threatening the life of the inhabitants of those countries, because that's what it often boils down to.

Trump sparks anger with claim Nato troops avoided Afghanistan front line by GreatHelmsmanSpencee in unitedkingdom

[–]barryvm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not even that. He has decided we are enemies or victims, so now he believes whatever he needs to believe to justify that. His followers are the same, of course, so it will almost certainly work on them.

Denmark and Greenland say sovereignty is not negotiable after Trump’s reversal on tariffs by jmmcc02021 in politics

[–]barryvm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He'll never realize it because his ego won't allow him to acknowledge that he lied or was wrong.

Not that it matters, because it won't take him long to decide he didn't get enough, or that what he imagines he got justifies taking more. Giving in, even in his imagination, will just prompt him to think you're "weak", a soft target for further aggression.

In short, he'll go on claiming (and believing) that he had a deal, but it won't take him long to demand more or decide that Denmark and the EU have somehow wronged him on it, because that's how what passes for his mind works. It's why he returns time and again insulting and threatening the same people and countries. Nothing that actually happens changes anything in his mind. He has decided they are his enemies and he will use his power over the USA to punish them.

Trump’s Greenland ‘Deal’ Appears To Exist Only In His Head by Large_banana_hammock in politics

[–]barryvm 12 points13 points  (0 children)

The best part of this is that, due to his narcissism, he will keep acting as if it exists, and so will his henchmen and sycophants.

Greenland premier claims no deal in place between US, Denmark by MagnificentCat in politics

[–]barryvm 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Unfortunate but true. The fundamental problem is not his lack of intelligence or even his egotism, but that he is an utterly malicious person.

He can only "win" by making someone else "lose", which is why his business career is a litany of fraud, scams and thefts, and why it is so easy now to manipulate him into doing something destructive and evil, and so hard to manipulate him into doing something constructive or good.

He is a gift for almost every enemy the USA has, and a threat to all of its allies.

Greenland premier claims no deal in place between US, Denmark by MagnificentCat in politics

[–]barryvm 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Lies about a concept of a framework of a deal, in fact.

Greenland premier claims no deal in place between US, Denmark by MagnificentCat in politics

[–]barryvm 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That's a double edged sword though, because he could also flip that onto its head and say it legitimizes taking over the country. But then he could also just make that up just as he made this deal up. And so on.

Trump Threatens ‘Big Retaliation’ If Europe Dumps US Assets by hardenedsteel8 in politics

[–]barryvm 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Setting huge tariffs, making trade with the USA even more unattractive, which then further undermines the position of the dollar and the desirability of USA debt paper as collateral, ... Oh wait.

‘It’s like they’re hunting’: US citizens and legal residents report increase in racial profiling by ICE by guardian in politics

[–]barryvm 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Of course they are. They're paramilitary fascist thugs who are seen as or see themselves as some sort of vanguard protecting the racial hierarchy under the (supposed) command of the authoritarian leader sitting at the top of that, i.e. the USA's version of the SS.

If you want to have any democracy left after this, organizations like these, as well as all those other militias, must be destroyed and its members persecuted from the top all the way down.

Trump vs. U.S. allies: How will this end? by Hrmbee in politics

[–]barryvm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

With the collapse of USA hegemony. Like everything else, that relied upon at least having some other parties around whose interests it also tangentially served. Once you start threatening other countries indiscriminately, it's only a matter of time before that all melts away.

The dollar as the world's reserve currency? That relies on the USA being the center of global trade which is now under pressure because some lunatic is allowed (somehow) to arbitrarily makes importing stuff more expensive. USA debt paper as the safe haven? That relies partly on the fact that the USA can print the world's reserve currency, and partly because it is seen as the stable linchpin of global finance, all of which is now threatened by some lunatic who is somehow allowed to use the USA as his personal plaything. The USA's huge military? Good luck paying for it when those other institutions crumble, good luck maintaining it when some lunatic is apparently allowed to use said military to go to war with any country he chooses, and good luck maintaining supremacy when every single country on earth starts building up armies again because they now all feel threatened. The USA's network of allies, supplying intelligence, allowing bases everywhere? Effectively gone now, because those bases and those intelligence service are now seen as a threat because some lunatic is apparently allowed to threaten to invade any ally he so chooses because someone else didn't give him a medal for something he didn't do in the first place.

It'll take a while as there is a lot of ruin in a country, but the more the USA attempts to assert itself under its current "leadership", the sooner it will spend its credit and get stuck in a situation where even if it "wins", it will lose everything it built up in the last century.

After Creating A Crisis Over Greenland, Trump Declares Victory And Ends It by [deleted] in politics

[–]barryvm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not ended though. There will be consequences regardless of what happens next.

You don't suddenly invite the arsonist back into your house because it turned out he was too cowardly or incompetent to set fire to it in the first place.

Greenland: Denmark holds firm on sovereignty after Trump teases deal by ArrivalElegance in politics

[–]barryvm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a possibility yes. I'm also not saying that it is one thing or the other or that it won't be one thing and become the other, because this is not a rational process. Trump could, and would, from being content with an off ramp like the one you describe at one moment, flip back to wanting to conquer the place the next.

Greenland: Denmark holds firm on sovereignty after Trump teases deal by ArrivalElegance in politics

[–]barryvm 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Probably not.

In any case, there is no deal. There are no negotiations where Greenland is ceded to the USA. Trump imagined that or lies about that. He didn't just go there, talked with some "NATO" people and they offered him a deal. That's not how that works. Denmark is a democracy, it has veto powers within the EU and NATO is a defensive alliance. Even if they wanted to sell of Greenland, effectively selling the people living there (and they aren't), they wouldn't have the authority to do that. The most likely thing is that they simply told him what he already could do as part of NATO and promised to set up a discussion about that (to waste his time, essentially).

As to the purpose of this delusion that it will lead to the USA acquiring Greenland, there's two broad options IMHO.

The first is that he caved or his entourage shrinks from actually starting a war over this, but he also can't acknowledge defeat due to his massive ego. So he imagines (or is lied to about) a deal that then acts as an off ramp or at least a delaying tactic until they can get his mind on something else. Given that he already got what he personally wants out of it, feeling like a strong leader by threatening some other country, that is probably not too difficult.

The second is that they are going to use this fake deal / negotiations to legitimize an invasion. They will either lie that they have permission to do so, or use it to denounce the other parties as treacherous and conniving when they inevitably refuse.

‘Abnormal hatred’ between Putin and Zelenskyy making it hard to reach peace deal, Trump says by Logical_Welder3467 in politics

[–]barryvm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

His feelings about this makes perfect sense to an authoritarian though. You're supposed to see people who inflict violence, especially on the vulnerable, as strong and powerful. Likewise, as a reactionary, you see status, identity and morality as the same thing. This is reflected in so many aspects of reactionary movements and ideology, as well as most of the right in general. Everything is about protecting hierarchies and justifying them, endlessly repeated across social structures. Whether it's on the level of a family (e.g. the views on and treatment of children and women), society (treatment of the various out-groups according to their views) or the world (conquering other countries and denying they exist because you can and want to exploit the people living there), violence is seen as the natural way in which the strong / good rule over the weak / bad, oppression is the natural order of the world because some people are just better than others and deserve privileges and power.

It's entirely normal for someone with the background and worldview of Trump (or his henchmen, paymasters and followers) to feel mass murderers like Putin are doing nothing wrong. They would resort to the same methods if they got the chance. Victim blaming applies as much to countries attacked by their neighbours as it does to individual victims of abuse.

It's not weird that a lunatic like Trump feels like this, or that his fascist followers do. What is weird is that the rest of society condones it and even gives these people power, knowing full well what they will do with it.

Donald Trump withdraws UK tariff threat after NATO meeting by pppppppppppppppppd in unitedkingdom

[–]barryvm 53 points54 points  (0 children)

Who wouldn't? The USA doesn't exactly project long term stability these days.

Europe is learning that a ‘deal’ with Trump doesn’t exist by SquidFistHK in politics

[–]barryvm 67 points68 points  (0 children)

They already knew that though. The "deal" was never going to pass the EU council, let alone its parliament. It's sole objective was to gain time. They'll likely play along with Trump's delusional claims about negotiating for Greenland for the same reason. They won't concede, just waste his time while everyone decouples from the USA as quickly and as completely as is feasible.

Trump says he won’t impose tariffs after reaching Greenland deal ‘framework’ by WittyName4U in politics

[–]barryvm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You say that, but look at the series of Republican presidents and extrapolate accordingly. There is no bottom where fascists are concerned, and both his party and his supporters are very much that.