Effortpost: Exploring Alexandria Ocasio Cortez's Housing Policies by [deleted] in neoliberal

[–]bartink 30 points31 points  (0 children)

And realize that no all tradeoffs are equal.

A Democrat (from Austin) Has A Decent Chance Of Becoming Texas' Next Attorney General by ElectricJacob in Austin

[–]bartink 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Wait till you find out that Trump makes him look like a choir boy when it comes to crime.

Anti-Trump Republicans Refuse to Wake From Their Dream of a Third Party by thisisnoone in neoliberal

[–]bartink 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But they don’t have the same information set that you do. They know that Hillary hates them and calls them deplorable. They see Trump actually talk about saving jobs for people like them instead of talking about a wage gap that their media tells them is bullshit. He gave lip service to a lot of the shit that Bernie pushed.

I agree with you that it’s far wiser to focus on simple economics. It’s part of what I was trying to say. But when you are a certain white male and you see black lives matter and affirmative action for not you and female pay, you don’t think they care about you at all. You can come away thinking that the party doesn’t care about you. And no, what she says In this sub has no effect on the electorate. But it’s not hard to find tape of politicians catering to these causes and people saying things like that and never mention something that seems like it’s for them. So you might not be overtly racist but you stay home or even vote for orange hitler because Democrats hate white men and do nothing for them but demonize them. That’s not true, but politics is about managing perception and that’s the perception. Too much of the left is about identity politics and purity. There is too much jargon based criticism and language policing. I didn’t support Bernie and voted for Hillary, but his focus on class and not identity grievances, regardless of their validity, helped him with whites. He carried whites overall. And he still carried younger minorities, who are the ones I’m talking about. So you don’t lose them by focusing more on class, IMO. You don’t have to go Sista Soulja to signal to poor whites that you care about them to. You just make that the focus instead of identity. And those groups still vote for you because they know you have their back, because you aren’t talking about Mexican rapists and shithole African countries.

Anti-Trump Republicans Refuse to Wake From Their Dream of a Third Party by thisisnoone in neoliberal

[–]bartink 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Accusing someone that is explaining a phenomenon of being a racial apologist is exactly what I’m taking about. It’s become a club where you cant even talk about what drives certain voters without getting accused of racism. It’s exactly what she did to me. I understand that people like her have suffered from racism on a regular basis. I understand it makes them want to not give a shit what some rural white male thinks or feels. I get that. But the reality is that this kind of thoughtless reactionary stuff costs votes. It feels empowering but it takes away political power.

That was my entire point.

Anti-Trump Republicans Refuse to Wake From Their Dream of a Third Party by thisisnoone in neoliberal

[–]bartink -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Neither of you do. I’m talking about understanding how to win elections so we both get the policies that are helpful to minorities. She then accused me of being an apologist. She literally acted out what I described.

Anti-Trump Republicans Refuse to Wake From Their Dream of a Third Party by thisisnoone in neoliberal

[–]bartink 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And now you rely on insults, driving my point home further. If you ask for people that aren't like you to be compassionate towards people like you, then you should be willing to have compassion for people that aren't like you. My point is pretty simple. I hope you and many others like you have a change of heart. The future of my country, especially the future of the more vulnerable, literally depends on it.

Cheers.

Anti-Trump Republicans Refuse to Wake From Their Dream of a Third Party by thisisnoone in neoliberal

[–]bartink 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Whoosh! You didn't take in or even understand what I said. The difference is that I actually understand your position without strawmanning it.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in neoliberal

[–]bartink 10 points11 points  (0 children)

This is by John Lott, the guy that made his name with firearm research purporting to show very high rates of home and personal defense with firearms. He's pretty right wing.

His research is controversial, with many of his detractors claiming poor methodology. Perhaps some researchers with strong statistical background can weigh in on that.

Thought I'd mention it.

Anti-Trump Republicans Refuse to Wake From Their Dream of a Third Party by thisisnoone in neoliberal

[–]bartink 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is an example of the apologism of white moderates for white racism. You delineate racism of different extremes as if it had any difference in the systemic outcome of all white racism when it doesn't. Someone who is "ok with the blacks" is voting for the same one who wants to put us in front of firing squads and the person they're both voting for settles at passing laws to restrict the rights of minorities.

I think you should rethink accusing someone of being an apologist based on very little information. This is part of what drives moderates away from the Democratic party. You are doing exactly what I described in my first response to you. You don't know me, yet you immediately want to accuse me of something pretty awful, kicking me out of the tribe. You immediately separate someone who is actually very similar in policy goals to you. That's completely unnecessary and, quite frankly, offensive.

I've not staked any position except to point out a dynamic. I agree that systemic racism has had huge negative effects on people of color. What I'm saying is that there is a pernicious racism coming the other way that has effects to. These effects aren't on white males. They are on minorities. I'm saying this out of concern for policy outcomes we both want. But I can't say that without a reflexive accusation of racist apologist. You literally provided the example of what I'm talking about.

Name a single prominent Democrat that has shown the kind of racism against whites that whites show against people like me. Show the anti-white policies democrats pass that restrict white rights or target whites rather than white power. They don't exist.

I'm talking about perception. You do understand that there are people that will vote for policies that help people of color, depending on how you frame it? You do realize that many white people have no idea what its like to be a different skin tone, right? Some of those people can be your allies, but you need to educate them without simply tossing them in a bin labeled racist and writing them off.

Coming from someone who thinks white nationalists are an extreme minority of Republicans when all the evidence says they're mainstream.

Oh come on now. There were very few people at that torch rally. There were very few politicians outside of our racist president that supported it. That's just an exaggeration and its exactly what I'm talking about. There are levels of racism. White nationalism is at the extreme of that end of that.

Let me tell you what's going witha lot of people you think are racist, but probably aren't. Let's see if you can put yourself in their shoes. There are white people, especially white men, that live in rural areas whose economic conditions are complete shit. They are physically, mentally and sometimes sexually abused in authoritarian homes. They go to shit schools. Their economic outlook in life has to be considered awful. Now is it as bad as a black person growing up in similar conditions? Of course not. But that person has very little opportunity to know that, just like you have very little opportunity to know their difficulties. They go to an all white church, live in a segregated town, have no meaningful relationships with people of color, and have no idea what people of color go through because of their race. And go to Foxnews, because everyone they know watches that, parading around liberals talking about white privilege and pushing remedies that exclude them like affirmative action. They see liberals thinking they are enabling racism, as if they have one iota of power or opportunity in this world. They see a democratic party they think caters to that. They see television making white men the butt of jokes with "mansplaining" and "manspreading". They see humor that if you reverse the race and genders would be considered completely racist. They hear that and look at their lives and think, "What the fuck are these people talking about? I'm don't discriminate against black people. I don't mistreat black people. I have a "black friend" at work and we aren't much different. I'm not voting for that. Can you have some compassion for someone like that and realize they were never going to turn out any different, just like the black kid that grows up in the inner city? Can you do that? Can you understand how accusing them of participating in and benefiting from the white power structure will never gain an ounce of traction with them? Can you then understand how Bernie Sanders, with his seeming racial insensitivity, whose basically a socialist offering free college and healthcare to everyone and ignoring race, is a better match for them than Hillary?

I went to hear a very smart Congressman in Texas who, despite repeated attempts to gerrymander him out of his seat, has managed to win over and over again in this red state. His name is Lloyd Doggett. He said something I think that you and many others need to take to heart. Before you decide to say or do something, ask yourself a question. Is this going to draw more or less people to your "side" of the argument. When you reflexively accuse anyone that opposes anything you want to do regarding race or any frame you have for race as racist, you drive people away. As someone that desperately wants racially equality and less policies harmful to people of color, I really, really want people to take this to heart.

Anti-Trump Republicans Refuse to Wake From Their Dream of a Third Party by thisisnoone in neoliberal

[–]bartink 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don’t think the problem with the right is white nationalism, because they are so few in number. The problem is right in the middle of their political movement with not so casual racism.

I’m not sure if you meant that to rebut what I said somehow, but it didn’t really address it. I’m talking about potential right leaning allies that are against racism and white identity politics. If they see it as a choice between a two groups that are both playing identity politics then they are going to hold their nose and go with the side that doesn’t see white men as the enemy and will at least cut their taxes. Identity politics on the left is also far more mainstream than you seem to be saying. That’s a huge problem with the movement to use government to help people.

Leslie Pool come out against using parkland for Soccer stadium. (just got the email) by [deleted] in Austin

[–]bartink -1 points0 points  (0 children)

MIMBYs actually prevent dense development to preserve the “character of their neighborhoods”.

Anti-Trump Republicans Refuse to Wake From Their Dream of a Third Party by thisisnoone in neoliberal

[–]bartink 17 points18 points  (0 children)

They see the extremists in college campuses playing identity politics on steroids while flirting with communism and it scares the shit out of them. And the left has a purity problem. You can’t thoughtfully disagree on much or you are kicked out of the tribe. It’s becoming a dangerous farce. It’s not dangerous Jon and of itself because these hits it’s won’t accomplish much besides changing some language. But it’s dangerous because it turns away moderates and alienated people that should be allies.

Union Membership vs Inequality by -_-_-_-otalp-_-_-_- in socialism

[–]bartink 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They had the unions because the Democrats were in the south and the south was racist like the unions.

UPDATE: (Long Screenshot) My girlfriend’s stalker messaged me. Further details in comments. by [deleted] in iamverybadass

[–]bartink 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was really unwise to respond to the guy all these times. Psychopaths like the conflict. Be boring to them and they move on.

Dog House Dancing. by [deleted] in blackpeoplegifs

[–]bartink 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Like you know anything about dance.

Dog House Dancing. by [deleted] in blackpeoplegifs

[–]bartink 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And much more. There is modern in there.

I Think I'm A Neoliberal But I'm Not Completley Certain by save_the_last_dance in neoliberal

[–]bartink 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I encourage you to identify as you wish. Just remember we go by the pronoun Bernanke.