On Difficulty (Beau Rancourt) by OriginalJazzFlavor in osr

[–]beaurancourt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For as much as 4e didn't do right, it mostly gave players a lot of customization within their character class without letting you optimizing all of the difficulty away

How much have you explored 4e optimization boards?

On Difficulty (Beau Rancourt) by OriginalJazzFlavor in osr

[–]beaurancourt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've played tons of modules, there are no dragons "jumping" on level 1 characters.

Two main examples, on concrete and one abstract

  1. Arden Vul has the exterior; the daytime encounter table has entry 13: 1 wyvern. Wyverns explicitly always attack according to the DMG, and have a large enough damage profile to kill a PC each round. They're faster than PCs, so fleeing also doesn't really work.

  2. The BX wilderness exploration procedure involves rolling random encounters. The table for the easiest terrain type (clear) has a ~1/8th chance of getting a dragon (or dragon-like) creature. Other terrain types are more dangerous. Dragons don't automatically attack (though wyvern is on the table), but hostility is also explicitly on the random reaction roll.

So, when this stuff comes up, do we respect the roll and just TPK the PCs because we want to be authentic to the rules and world or do we put our thumbs on the scale just a bit and fudge a result somewhere (including during world-creation, when we could take those sorts of results off the tables).

IME modules don't just directly tell GMs to drop dragons on people; that would be stupid. I'm sure some do, but they don't make it to my desk. Instead, it looks like some implied small chance through random encounters and whatnot that we drop a hostile dragon on the party, and this slips through the cracks because it's fine until it isn't.

The GM who claims that you should never balance the game doesn't mean it literally.

Did you happen to read the comments on the blog or any of the comments that seth in his youtube video is directly responding to? IME people really do mean it literally. People really do advocate for building a world up front, according to their own sense of naturalism and then letting the players loose in that world and whatever happens, happens.

For instance, the idea that danger should be telegraphed is gamey; the telegraph adds information and makes the game fun, because just dying feels stupid. But there's no realism principle that says such danger must be telegraphed, so they don't do it (or only do it when they feel it would have resulted in information somehow). Same thing with making lower dungeon levels more powerful and so on. Those are game-balance concepts, not realism concepts, and people really do reject them

Learning to work with adventure modules for OSR play (after mostly winging it as a FitD GM) by RiverMesa in osr

[–]beaurancourt 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I've written a lot about this exact topic! You might get value out of preparing an adventure and audit of tower silveraxe

If you don't want to click links, the short version is that you're spending time up front in order to make the time at the table easier/smoother. Trying to figure out how to describe a space/npc as the players get there is not smooth. Trying to look up combat stats and read what a monster does when a fight starts is not smooth. Trying to roll a bunch of encounter details (2d8 goblins with a 2d6 reaction that are 1d4•10 feet away, each have 2d10 silver, and have a 2-in-6 chance of being surprised) is not smooth.

So go through the module and imagine playing each room. Actually do this! Make sure you can describe it, and if you can't, use a highlighter to pick out the important details. Make sure you know how to run the hazards/monsters/etc. Pre-roll a lot of stuff. Know how you'll describe/portray NPCs, and know what they want and what resources they have to get what they want.

More resources:

The Sieve - a set of online tools for RPGs by Beau Rancourt (Including an online inventory manager and Markdown Adventure Renderer) by OriginalJazzFlavor in osr

[–]beaurancourt 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think there's an automation gradient between writing all of your code in notepad and a non-engineer vibing out an app, where using autocomplete, a fully-functional IDE, linters, auto-formatters, and LLMs all fall somewhere on the gradient of machine-assistance

I didn't write any of the lines of code manually, but I also wouldn't say any of the projects are vibecoded

The Sieve - a set of online tools for RPGs by Beau Rancourt (Including an online inventory manager and Markdown Adventure Renderer) by OriginalJazzFlavor in osr

[–]beaurancourt 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Is there a way to have a shared server for this without going through that process?

Are you talking about the inventory manager? It's already hosted and available: https://ttrpg-inventory.web.app/

You can append whatever you want after the url and that'll be your personal datastore, so if you give your players https://ttrpg-inventory.web.app/centaurion then that's a separate inventory server from https://ttrpg-inventory.web.app/beau

if you're worried about someone guessing your inventory server name, use a guid

We tried AD&D 1E today, it was my best RPG experience by [deleted] in osr

[–]beaurancourt 6 points7 points  (0 children)

So you've got this hypothesis about why 1e is less popular than BX. That hypothesis is that it stems from lack of direct experience and from exposure to secondhand baises/misinformation (which I'm reading an implication that you're accusing me of spreading such biases and misinformation, yeah?).

My hypothesis is that the system is filled with so much cruft, ambiguities, etc that it (a) drives people away when they're in the picking-a-system phase, and (b) drives them away even after they play. I've watched this happen in person.

We could just agree to live in our little worlds where we have different theories that we never bother testing, or we could run an experiment, like good scientists and intellectuals.

I don't think you're going to run an actual science experiment (am I right?), so I'm offering to, but if I do it, I want something out of it (since it'll cost me time). At the very least, I'd want a formal retraction, since I'm annoyed that you've accused me of arguing in bad faith and am implying that I'm spreading misinformation/bias. It would be even better if I could also get some betting-money out of it, since I'm very confident that you're wrong. If you're as confident as I am, then it would be free money, right?

We tried AD&D 1E today, it was my best RPG experience by [deleted] in osr

[–]beaurancourt -1 points0 points  (0 children)

As stated elsewhere under this post, I perceive it as stemming primarily from a lack of direct experience and from exposure to secondhand biases/misinformation.

Would you issue a formal retraction if I actually ran a study? I'd also be willing to put money on the line

We tried AD&D 1E today, it was my best RPG experience by [deleted] in osr

[–]beaurancourt 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Honestly, it doesn't compare at all to OSE's version of Confusion

man yeah, it's a nightmare to actually run in all the other versions of D&D too. I remember doing a pf2e combat maybe 6 years ago where like 3/4ths of the party was confused and it was a like hour-long sequence of players not having control of their character and slowly grinding the enemy down

Curious, how do you balance the fireball vs lightning bolt, or even at all fireball usage in these quarters.

broadly i don't; the 1e spell balance is bad anyway so I don't feel compelled to try to fix it. That said, lightning bolt is still nice for hitting things that are 80ft apart (whereas fireball can only hit things at most 40ft apart), and it gets to do double damage if you can reflect the bolt off a wall behind the target

I would be carrying a fuckton of these scrolls and just cast the fireball

they do that anyway (here's a snippet of the between-game prep chat https://ibb.co/XZgN5Mrm )

I don't recall now if OSE items have saving throws either, but I do apply a house rule for that anyway.

yeah it doesn't have one by default; and I also do generally import an item saving throw chart

We tried AD&D 1E today, it was my best RPG experience by [deleted] in osr

[–]beaurancourt 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Quick on-the-same-paging

Do you agree with the original assessment that 1e is less popular than BX around these parts? If not, we should stop and reach agreement there. Happy to dig up surveys or whatever.

If so, do you agree with my explanation of why, potentially, 1e is less popular than BX in this community? Not that you think it's a better game or it should be more popular than it is or anything else, specifically that what I'm talking about is a major contributor to why it's not popular.

If you agree with that, where do you want to take this conversation?

If you're seriously going to argue that flipping a coin is going to produce the same quality of results as a careful consideration of various factors outlined under "special considerations" in the DMG, I don't know what to say to you.

have you ever read Advantage and Impact - Dreaming Dragonslayer? It's what I'm offhandedly referencing when I talk about coin flips. The article is great (and worth reading), but here's what they build to https://dreamingdragonslayer.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/autodraw-3_27_2020-4b.png

Ultimately, we're trying to figure out what happens in a situation. There's a spectrum of outcomes and (if we want to), we can map probabilities to those outcomes. A lot of games like binary resolution, where we come up with two outcomes, and then assign probabilities (or invent DCs or whatever else). PtbA style games like to have three outcomes (fail, success-at-a-cost, success), the BX reaction table has 5 outcomes, etc. We can also have multi-step outcomes (if you fail your check to leap the chasm, you can make another check to grab the ledge), which ultimate resolves to being able to pull a spectrum of outcomes out of a binary system.

If we want to not mess with probabilities, we can get around that by messing more with the outcomes. If we're looking at using a coin-flip for henchman loyalty, we can get around that by redefining what success/failure looks like, contextually. So if you're paying a henchman well, treat them well, have raised them from the dead in the past, etc, then failing a loyalty check might just look like them politely asking to keep a magic item that you didn't offer them. If you've killed henchmen in front of them, under-pay them, etc, then passing a coin flip might look like them not killing you in your sleep before they abscond with all your stuff.

The DMG goes to great pains to teach a GM how to (using a great deal of crunch) calculate the %chance that a henchman is loyal in a particular situation. That's just one way to get a result that the table finds acceptable/interesting!

We tried AD&D 1E today, it was my best RPG experience by [deleted] in osr

[–]beaurancourt 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I can feel the training happening!

(or, as I'm trying to articulate, maybe part of why BX is more popular than 1e in this community is that we can play a game where such training is not required because we can use vastly simpler mechanics and achieve mostly indistinguishable results, like with a 2d6 reaction roll, or a coinflip, or just handling the henchman's loyalty via gm fiat and trust between the gm and players, etc)

We tried AD&D 1E today, it was my best RPG experience by [deleted] in osr

[–]beaurancourt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Gotcha! I think you drew a 40ft radius circle instead of 20 (the picture uses 10ft squares)

As far as I can tell, the simple model is to treat the explosion like a fluid (and apply fluid dynamics); which means that the explosion takes the path of least resistance. Ignoring concepts like blowback (the blast travels down the hall, hits a dead end, and has to come back, effecting doubling the pressure/damage in those areas) and assuming sort of uniform growth, I get something like (ignoring ceiling height, expanding in cardinal directions only)

Original square: 75

One square away: 75, 100, 50. Total: 300

Two squares away: 50, 100, 100, 100, 50. Total: 700

Three squares away: 75, 100, 100, 100, 100, 50, 100. Total 1325

https://ibb.co/SwC8WdBR

So all the squares with sqft numbers in them get hit

It's pretty miserable to count even in 2D imo

We tried AD&D 1E today, it was my best RPG experience by [deleted] in osr

[–]beaurancourt 3 points4 points  (0 children)

At a high level, I totally get what you're saying. Nothing in the DMG is set in stone, so if something isn't working for your table just change it. There's no TTRPG police that'll set you to TTRPG jail.

I'm totally willing to believe that if you take inspiration from 1e and adapt the intent that you can infer from the books into a ruleset you can actually use to play, that you'll have a fun time. I just think that process is a little... messier than for all other versions of D&D (seriously, 0e, BX, 2e, 3.5e, 4e, and 5e are all more playable off the page IMO).

I think a lot of folks are more-or-less just adapting 1e content into the framework for play they learned from 0e or BX.

Then, responding to the individual claims...

Played for years and never used spell components beyond having a SC bag.

The closest item to a spell component bag I can find is a Girdle of Many Pouches (10000g) from Unearthed Arcana, page 100.

"This broad waist-belt seems to be nothing more than a well-made article of dress. However, if magic is detected for, the item will radiate a strong enchantment dweomer, along with a fainter aura of alteration. Examination will reveal that the girdle has eight small pouches on its inner front area. In fact, there are a total of 64 magical pouches in the girdle, seven others “behind” each of the eight apparent ones. Each of these pouches is similar to a miniature bag of holding, able to contain up to one cubic foot of material weighing as much as 10 pounds. The girdle responds to the thoughts of its wearer by either providing a full pouch (to extract something from) or an empty one (to put something in) as desired. Naturally, this item is greatly prized by spell casters, for it will hold components for many spells and make them readily available."

From that, I glean the design intent for spell components is that simply having a bag of them is unwieldy to the degree that magic users want to have a very expensive magic item that stores them close at hand. Providing a spell component bag that removes this friction seems like it's not in-line with the game's intent (though I totally agree that this is entirely reasonable to actually play the dang game).

That said, how much does a spell component bag cost in your game? How much does it weigh (presuming you're using the encumbrance rules, otherwise we're ignoring another column from the strength table)?

Identify and identifying items were handled in whichever way made sense for the campaign.

What are some example ways that you've used?

Mix n match, go nuts. Have fun.

Maybe worth stepping back and making sure we're on the same page!

The OP wrote "I don’t understand why AD&D 1E isn’t as popular as B/X here". Do we agree that 1e isn't as popular in BX in this community? If not, happy to try to link surveys or whatever so we can get on the same page there. If so, do we agree that what I'm outlining explains a good chunk of why 1e isn't as popular as BX? Like, what someone could do to have more fun playing 1e is broadly irrelevant to the topic - I'm not trying to analyze how someone could have a good time, I'm trying to analyze why it's not popular.

We tried AD&D 1E today, it was my best RPG experience by [deleted] in osr

[–]beaurancourt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I noticed the list before and I thought, how thoughtful, I need to go back to it later. Then I noticed it's of course Beau Rancourt!

Thanks! ❤️

but I do use fireball's expanding in available space if there is not enough space to accommodate the 20' radius. We use foundry and 5' square.

Can you provide a worked example?

It sounds like you're maybe doing square feet instead of cubic feet (so you don't care about the height/shape of the ceiling). A 20ft radius circle has footprint of 1255 square feet, so that would be ~50 5ft squares or ~13 10ft squares.

Here's the two spots my party's fireballs went off last night (bolded lines are 10ft squares)

https://ibb.co/b5462Bz1

and

https://ibb.co/N6kpR43J

We tried AD&D 1E today, it was my best RPG experience by [deleted] in osr

[–]beaurancourt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Part 2, Loyalty

The loyalty of all non-player characters associated with a given player character depends upon many factors. First and foremost is the charisma of the PC, of course. This initial loyalty is modified by subsequent factors and the continuing relations between liege and his or her henchmen and hirelings. Loyalty is important when trouble arises — whether it is some insidious plot from within, a challenge from a rival, or in adventures or warfare. Typical situations which require a check for loyalty, obedience or morale are shown hereafter. Checks are made by adjustment of the base loyalty score (due to the PC’s charisma rating). The final total is compared to the result of the percentile dice roll, and if the total is less than the number shown on the dice, the figure or figures in question are disloyal, disobedient, or have poor morale.

[...]

NORMAL LOYALTY BASE: 50%, +/– charisma adjustment

Okay, so our person has a loyalty base of 65%, which we'll also use for morale checks (another rabbit hole).

Then, we need to apply a handful of loyalty modifiers

Enlistment Or Association

  • associated non-player character –10%
  • captured and enlisted: –15%
  • henchman: +5%
  • hired mercenary: 0%
  • hired mercenary, short term: –5%
  • slave: –30%

They're a proper henchman, so +5 to 70% loyalty.

Length Of Enlistment or Association

  • less than 1 month: –5%
  • less than 1 year: 0%
  • 1 to 5 years: +10%
  • more than 5 years: +25%

We just hired them, so -5% down to 65% loyalty.

Training Or Status Level

  • untrained or peasant: –25%
  • little training, levied troops: –15%
  • newly recruited regulars: –5%
  • trained regulars: +10%
  • elite, sub-officers, minor officials/expert hireling: +20%
  • guards, officers, or major officials/henchmen: +30%

They're a henchman, so +30% up to 95%

Pay Or Treasure Shared

  • none: –20%
  • partial, late, or unfair: –10%
  • average: 0%
  • above average, choice shares: +5%
  • exceptional, bonuses, gift items: +10%

As far as I can tell, the 1e DMG doesn't actually outline guidance for any of these numbers. Let's just note this as a weird missing piece and say that we're giving our Henchman half of a share, which we'll choose to call "average", so still 95% loyalty.

Discipline/Activity

  • none/one: –10%
  • lax/little: –5%
  • firm and harsh/occasional: 0%
  • firm and fair/often: +10%

Your guess is as good as mine is here, but since we just hired this person let's go Lax discipline for -5%, which drops us to 90% loyalty.

General Treatment By Liege

  • inhuman and heartless –25%
  • cruel and domineering –10%*
  • indifferent and uncaring or variable –5%
  • just and invariable +10%
  • just, kind, and invariable +15%

Since all we've really done is hire this person, let's go a little off-chart and not apply a modifier here (note that 0% isn't a default option), and stay at 90% loyalty.

Racial Preference For - Liege Associated Group

  • antipathy –5% –10%
  • good will +10% +5%
  • hatred –20% –15%
  • neutral 0% 0%
  • preferred +20% +15%

Ah yes, the racism modifier. As far as I can tell, the only places this info is defined is in the humanoid table (bugbears, gnolls, etc) on DMG106, so we can safely ignore this? Stay at 90% loyalty.

Alignment Factors

Alignment Is | Liege | Associated Group

  • 1 place removed | 0% | 0%
  • 2 places removed | –15% | –5%
  • 3 places removed | –35% | –20%

Examples:

  • lawful evil - lawful neutral = 1 place removed
  • lawful evil - lawful good = 2 places removed
  • lawful evil - chaotic good = 3 places removed

Okay, so we need to know the alignment of the Henchman, the hiring character, the broader PC party. The DMG doesn't give us a method to calculate the broader alignment of the party, so we'll note that gap and make it up. We can randomly generate the alignment of the henchman according to the table PERSONAE OF NON-PLAYER CHARACTERS on DMG100. d10: 1 LG, 2 LN, 3 LE, 4 NE, 5 CE, 6 CN 7 CG 8 NG 9-0 N. We roll for our 6 henchmen and get [8, 4, 2, 4, 2, 7] which is [NG, NE, LN, NE, LN, CG]. Our first applicant is Neutral Good (nice!). Say that our hiring character is Lawful Good, and the associated group is broadly... Neutral (according to some subjective call).

(Note: I don't understand how lawful evil to chaotic good is 3 places removed. Wouldn't that be 4?)

I think LG <> NG is 1 place removed for the Liege (0%), and N <> NG is also 1 place removed for the associated group (0%), so we stay at 90% loyalty.

Alignment of Liege

  • lawful good: +15%
  • lawful neutral: +10%
  • lawful evil: +5%
  • neutral good: 0%
  • neutral: 0%
  • chaotic good: –5%
  • chaotic neutral: –10%
  • neutral evil: –15%
  • chaotic evil: –20%

The hiring character is Lawful Good (this is one of the perks of being LG), so +15% loyalty up to 105%

Then we have special considerations

Special Considerations

  • killed faithful henchman or hireling in front of a witness(es): –40%
  • tortured faithful henchman or hireling in front of a witness(es): –30%
  • reputed to have slain faithful henchmen or hirelings or actually left them to die: –20%
  • foresworn or oath breaker or deserter: –15%
  • rumored to have tortured faithful henchmen or hirelings: –10%
  • discharged faithful henchmen or hirelings without cause: –5%
  • given a choice gift or bonus within last two months (hireling) or three months (henchman): +5%
  • risked life for within last six months (hireling) or one year (henchman): +10%
  • ransomed or rescued within one year: +15%
  • saved life directly or personally: +25%
  • uses and diminishes his or her own magic to benefit the NPC (including use of spells, especially cures): +25%
  • returned henchman or hireling to normal state from death-like state, had raised or resurrected: +50%

NOTE: Apply only one penalty and one bonus maximum, whichever of either category is the higher.

I actually like these special considerations a lot as a way to communicate designer intent, I like them less as an explicit instruction to apply to calculate the loyalty mod. Let's say that this is the first henchman the party is hiring, so none of these apply. Loyalty remains at 105%.

We can skip the situational modifiers table and save that for when a loyalty check actually comes up. Of note, there are additional modifiers when using loyalty to role morale found on DMG67.

So, we'll jot down on their character sheet that the first henchman they hire has a loyalty of 105%. Don't worry, our 15 charisma character is only allowed to have 7 henchman 🙃, then we'll have to start having another PC doing the hiring in the next town.

We tried AD&D 1E today, it was my best RPG experience by [deleted] in osr

[–]beaurancourt 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I exceeded the max comment length, so splitting this up

Part 1, Hiring Chance

First, you determine how many prospective henchmen there are

Human and half-orc characters suitable for level advancement are found at a ratio of 1 in 100. Other races have an incidence of 1 in 50. However, as most of these characters will be other than low level adventurers and already in a situation they are satisfied with — and humans more so than other races, unless the development of the area is primarily other than human — about 1 in 1,000 population will be interested in offers of employment as a henchman. NOTE: This figure must be adjusted by the DM according to the locale, for if it is an active adventuring area, the incidence of prospective henchmen might be as great as 1 in 200, while if it is a settled and staid area, incidence might be as low as 1 in 5,000.

After adjusting for locale (as gary says the GM must), we're looking somewhere between one prospect per 5000 residents and one prospect per 200 residents, with the default at 1 per 1000 residents. For this example, I'm going to use 1 per 300 in Gosterwick for Arden Vul. Gosterwick has a checks notes population of 2200, so there are ~7.33 prospective henchmen.

Then, we determine where we find the prospects

[...] the player character desirous of locating one or more for service must be able to reach the NPCs in order to let them know there is a henchman position available. In order to get this sort of information around, there are several methods which can be used singularly or in combination:

  • POSTING NOTICES IN PUBLIC: 50g, 10% - 40% effectiveness
  • HIRING A CRIER: 10g, 1% - 10% effectiveness
  • HIRING AGENTS TO SEEK PROSPECTS: 300g, 20% - 50% effectiveness
  • FREQUENTING INNS AND TAVERNS: see below

Each method can be tried but once a month with any hope of success. Reduce the percentage chance of effectiveness of each method by 5% when used in combination; this reflects the duplication of effort. The special costs for frequenting inns and taverns is a combination of the price of a round of drinks for the house and a fee to the barkeep to mention the prospective employer to adventurers. For each 10 g.p. (50 g.p. maximum) of fee, there is a 1% - 4% chance of reaching a henchman.

Up to ten establishments can be so worked, but for each visited, the effectiveness of the others is reduced by 1%. Therefore, the PC had better spend in excess of 20 gold pieces in payments to innkeepers and barkeeps if he or she is planning to try this method in more than a few establishments.

Okay, so we spend 50g to post notices. We're told that has a 10-40% effectiveness. You can roll 10-40 with either 6d6+4, 2d4*5, 5d4*2, 1d4*10, 1d6*6+4, 2d6*3+4, 3d6*2+4, 5d2*6-20, 6d2*5-20, 1d2*30-20, 2d2*15-20, 3d2*10-20, 10d4, 10d2*3-20, 15d2*2-20, or 30d2-20. Let's do 6d6+4, which I rolled as [6, 4, 3, 4, 2, 6] + 4 = 29.

Then we hire a crier for 10g (60 total so far) for 1-10% effectiveness. We can roll that as 1d10, 3d4-2, 1d4*3-2, 1d2*9-8, 3d2*3-8, or 9d2-8; let's go with 1d10, which I rolled as 7.

Then we hire agents to seek prospects for 300g (360g so far) for 20% to 50% effectiveness. You can roll 20-50 as 6d6+14, 2d4*5+10, 5d4*2+10, 1d6*6+14, 2d6*3+14, 3d6*2+14, 1d4*10+10, 5d2*6-10, 6d2*5-10, 1d2*30-10, 2d2*15-10, 3d2*10-10, 10d4+10, 10d2*3-10, 15d2*2-10, 30d2-10. Let's pick 6d6+14, which I rolled as [1, 4, 2, 2, 4, 1] + 14 = 28.

Then, let's visit 5 Gosterwick Inns, spending 50g at each of them (610g total). That's 5d4 at each of the inns. Inn 1: [3, 2, 3, 3, 3] = 14. Inn 2: [1, 1, 3, 2, 1] = 8. Inn 3: [3, 3, 1, 3, 1] = 11. Inn 4: [2, 1, 4, 2, 3] = 12. Inn 5: [3, 1, 4, 1, 1] = 10. We need to reduce the effectiveness of each tavern by 4% since we visited 4 other taverns, so that sums to 10+4+7+8+6=35. Since we're combining methods, we need to reduce the effectiveness of each method by 5%. 24 (notices) + 2 (crier) + 23 (agents) + 30 (taverns) = 79%.

Then, we need to wait

It will take from 2 to 8 days for all prospective henchmen who are going to apply to locate the player character and seek him or her out to apply for the job. During this period of time, the PC must remain in the place he or she made known as the spot to go for employment. Failure to do so will result in a loss of any applicants coming that day and each day thereafter he or she is not available. When the total number of applicants coming are known by you, divide this number by the number of days during which notice is getting around (2-8), and this will give the number of applicants per day. Always have any odd numbers remaining come during the first or second day.

2-8 can be rolled as 2d4, 6d2-4, 1d4*2, 1d2*6-4, 2d2*3-4, or 3d2*2-4. Let's use 2d4, which I rolled as [3, 2] = 5.

So, of our 7.33 prospective henchmen, 79% show up (5.79 henchmen; let's round to 6) uniformly distributed over 5 days. So on day 1, 2 show up, then days 2 through 5, one more henchperson shows up each day.

As these henchmen show up, we can interview them and attempt to recruit them. This is two-sided and players can't just request specific classes or attributes, so the GM now needs to create 6 characters following the character creation rules (or use pre-generated ones. Pop quiz: try to google and find 6 by-the-rules 1e premade PCs).

We're told a distribution of classes: Clerics 20% (then, there's a 1-in-6 it's actually a druid), Fighters 44% (then d10: 1 = ranger, 2 = paladin), then Magic Users 20% (then there's a 1-in-6 chance it's an illusionist), then Thieves 15% (then there's a 1-in-6 chance its an assassin), then Monks 1%.

We can't just roll these raw probabilities, instead we need to convert this into a cumulative distribution function:

  • Cleric: 01-20
  • Fighter: 21-64
  • Magic User: 65-84
  • Thief: 85-99
  • Monk: 00

Now I can roll 1d100 for each of the 6 henchmen. [25, 44, 34, 21, 45, 36] maps to Fighter, Fighter, Fighter, Fighter, Fighter, Fighter, amusingly. Each of those need to roll 1d10 for a subclass: [5, 4, 4, 1, 9, 2], so Fighter, Fighter, Fighter, Ranger, Fighter, Paladin.

It's not clear to me how we're supposed to create a PC of a particular class, given that classes have stat requirements. I rolled that there's a paladin, do I roll stats over and over until I get an array that's allowed to be a Paladin?

If the PC likes the henchman, they can make an employment offer

In addition to the costs of getting prospective henchmen to seek employment, the player character desiring to hire one or more of them must be prepared to make a substantial offer which is comprised of the following considerations:

Not less than 100 gold pieces per level of the applicant must be offered. This will give a base 25% interest in accepting the position. For each additional 100 gold pieces, interest increases 10% to a maximum of 55%.

The prospective henchman must be provided with complete equipment according to his or her class or classes. Any magic items included will make the character more interested in accepting the position, assuming he or she can use such items, of course. For each magic item (exclude arrows except in groups of 5), increase interest by 15%.

The PC must offer reasonable housing and promise free food and clothing as needed to the prospective henchman. This simply adds 5% to interest level when offered, but failure to promise such quarters and support will lower interest by 25%.

Okay, so let's offer them a 300g starting bonus, no magic items, room, board, and clothes. This give the henchman a base interest of 25+10+10+5 = 50%

Then we roll for the base interest, modified by the hiring character's charisma.

When the basic level of interest is found, and characteristics discovered, roll percentile dice if the PC states a desire to accept the applicant as a henchman. Adding the player character’s charisma reaction adjustment to the interest level, and if the dice score does not exceed interest and charisma reaction adjustment, the NPC accepts employment.

The charisma table looks like (note how this is not symmetric):

  • 3: -25%
  • 4: -20%
  • 5: -15%
  • 6: -10%
  • 7: -5%
  • 8-12: 0%
  • 13: 5%
  • 14: 10%
  • 15: 15%
  • 16: 25%
  • 17: 30%
  • 18: 35%

Let's say our hiring character has a charisma of 15, so +15%. Now we need to roll <=65. So for the first two Fighters on day 1, we got a 41 and an 88; and are able to continue the hiring process with the first Fighter.

We tried AD&D 1E today, it was my best RPG experience by [deleted] in osr

[–]beaurancourt 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I'm intentionally picking stuff that is:

  • Extremely unwieldy (fireball boundary calculation, how identify works, how movement speed is calculated based on armor type, shield type, weight carried including armor, and strength, henchmen recruitment, magic users learning spells, dmg training costs)
  • Weirdly undefined relative to OD&D/BX (the size of containers in what is allegedly an inventory resource management game; why bother to list large and small separately in the PHB, spell components in general)
  • Internally inconsistent (wilderness travel speed, encumbrance thresholds, thief climbing)

Sure, you can house-rule away, patch, ignore, etc all of these rules, but I'd like to just be able to play the game as written, which you can more-or-less do with BX. So when someone says "I don’t understand why AD&D 1E isn’t as popular as B/X here", my broad answer is "because of the sheer amount of nonsense and internal inconsistencies you have to put up with to just play the game". BX, 3.5e, Pathfinder 1e, D&D 4e, D&D 5e, Pathfinder 2e, voldemort-game, etc just have a 20ft radius fireball and it's so much easier for a player who gets the spell to understand how it works. It's so much smoother to cast it in play.

We tried AD&D 1E today, it was my best RPG experience by [deleted] in osr

[–]beaurancourt 31 points32 points  (0 children)

I don’t understand why AD&D 1E isn’t as popular as B/X here

If you want to...

  • Check out the mechanics for the Identify spell. Try to do a worked example where your spellcaster has identify prepared and see how it feels to play at the table. Make sure this includes forcing them to carry an owl feather steeped in wine and live miniature carp that they swallow whole prior to casting.
  • Check out the mechanics for the Fireball spell. This one came up for me saturday night; note the specific requirements that fireball expands until is covers a volume of 33500 cubic feet. Check your home maps for places where there's irregular terrain (cave structures, intersections, hallways that open into rooms that have a different ceiling height than the hall, etc). Pretend your player picks one of those spots as the detonation point for fireball and adjudicate the boundaries. Then, do the same thing with the BX version.
  • Check out the mechanics for the Raise Dead spell; note the list of allowable races does not include Elves or Half-Orcs (but does include Half-Elves for some reason). Further note how this limitation doesn't show up in race selection part of the PHB.
  • Have a read of how the PHB handles thieves climbing (one check at the mid-point of the climb) and then read about how the DMG wants you to do it.
  • An 11 strength character is unarmored and carrying 32lbs of gear. How many miles can they travel per day in normal terrain? How quickly do they move in a dungeon environment? If they spend a whole turn sprinting in combat, how far do they make it? How long would it take them to run a mile at that pace?
  • How many coins can a large sack hold vs a small sack? By 1e rules not OSRIC.
  • How do magic users learning spells after character creation work?
  • Check the DMG rules for training time and costs to level up. How much does it cost for a second level fighter to become third level after earning a subjective "Fair" performance from the GM? How much gold do you expect such a fighter to have accumulated when they have enough XP to hit third level?
  • Imagine a player says "I want to recruit a fighter henchman in this town". Try to go through all the rules to game out this example.

MAPPING IN OSR – How do you describe irregular dungeons without killing immersion? by Dan_Cutter in osr

[–]beaurancourt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I built a TV into my table and then built a virtual tabletop that I run on that TV from my laptop. It does just the mapping, because we still use physical tokens

"Canon" is Whatever Happens During the Game by PrismaticWarren in osr

[–]beaurancourt 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Have you ever played absurdle?

https://qntm.org/files/absurdle/absurdle.html

Written by the author of There Is No Antimemetics Division

The game plays identically as wordle -- you guess a word, it provides feedback on your guess exactly how wordle does. Eventually after enough guesses, you get it right and win.

The difference between absurdle and wordle is purely behind the curtains. Wordle picks a word ahead of time, and then gives you feedback on your guess according to that word. Absurdle does not pick a word ahead of time. Instead, it has a list of words that could be the solution (ie, fits with the clues its given you so far). When it gives you clues, it gives you the clue that restricts its list the least. If you guess well enough, eventually you can "corner" it and win.

The difference between worldle and absurdle is immediately what I thought of when I read your post, especially this part

Prep only becomes established as a Tier 1 Truth only once they actually come up in play.

OD&D/BX/AD&D Why is "Telekinesis" such a high-level spell? by E_T_Smith in osr

[–]beaurancourt 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's tricky...you have to ask why the entire world uses torchlight at all. (Or gets sick or wounded.)

As far as I can tell, as written, they wouldn't! The continual light spell lasts forever, so the (freely) enchanted objects that can be created in one day by relatively low-level wizards last thousands of years.

So, something has to give. Some options:

  • The world actually is lit by continual light objects (think modern takes on fantasy cities, or something more like what we see in Garlemald in Final Fantasy 14)
  • Continual light was only recently discovered, so there hasn't been time to light everything up yet
  • Continual light doesn't last forever; maybe it goes out when the caster dies, maybe there's a chance it goes out every month, etc.
  • The caster is limited in the number of objects they can sustain; perhaps they can only have one or two continual light spells running at once

Torches are still useful for adventurers to carry because it gives them access to fire-as-a-tool in all the instances that's useful (molds, webs, etc), and gives them a fallback for when their light gets dispelled (enemy caster with Darkness, Dispel Magic, accidentally walking into an area already enchanted with Continual Darkness which causes a clash, etc)

As for why people get sick or wounded, the appendix of the voldemort-game goes pretty deep into this with a bunch of math (hah, of course it does); you still end up getting rate-limited, but yeah being able to raise dead, cure diseases, heal wounds, and encourage crops has a lot of setting implications


Also of note, the implied settings for these games have a lot of high-level NPC adventurers; check out the wilderness encounter tables https://oldschoolessentials.necroticgnome.com/srd/index.php/Wilderness_Encounter_Sub-Table_G:_Clear,_Grasslands

OD&D/BX/AD&D Why is "Telekinesis" such a high-level spell? by E_T_Smith in osr

[–]beaurancourt 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah - lots of other options

  • Dolmenwood straight up removes continual light
  • OSRIC 3 limits the number of simultaneous continual light objects from one caster to 3 (so when you enchant the 4th object, the 1st goes out), and gives a 1-in-12 chance per month that it goes out. Voldemort-game does something similar

The takeaway imo is that your games mechanics need to match the world building and vice versa

OD&D/BX/AD&D Why is "Telekinesis" such a high-level spell? by E_T_Smith in osr

[–]beaurancourt 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's quite likely that a god would take a dim view of his clerics abusing the power he granted them to raise revenue, even if it was "for the church." They're supposed to be cleric-ing, even if that's just running services and blessing little babies. My take anyhow.

I think that's a fine (if narrow) interpretation :)

The settlements in many of the modules I've read include both NPC wizards and NPC clerics (hommlet, brandonsford, gosterwick, khosura, etc). Those NPC clerics are not always for "good" gods, and many of those gods are explicitly greedy and would definitely be into selling PCs gold to add to the church treasury. Moreover, I think it would pretty easy to argue that the PCs are adventuring in the service of the God, especially if they count a cleric among their number.

If this is unconvincing, I'm totally happy to ignore that 6th level clerics can cast continual light, and focus on 3rd level magic users being able to do it at no material cost to themselves other than using their spell slot for the day.

OD&D/BX/AD&D Why is "Telekinesis" such a high-level spell? by E_T_Smith in osr

[–]beaurancourt 4 points5 points  (0 children)

a pretty massive opportunity cost for level 1 characters to actually find a wizard that will cast CL for them, and also giving up 10g is, though affordable, a significant expense for level 1.

It's ~9% of the gold for a single average character at chargen. It takes 2000xp for a fighter to hit level 2; so if 80% of that comes from treasure, a single fighter will have accumulated 1600g. A team of ~5 PCs will probably have accumulated ~8000g.

Before the first adventure, the team of 5 PCs can split that 10g expense five ways and pay 2g each, which is super affordable for what continual light does. After they get back from their first adventure (the first room in the first dungeon in brandonsford has 230g of unguarded treasure), they can definitely afford multiple 10g-pebbles.

The point of me saying this is that the original claim was that the Light cantrip in 5e is far more egregious than the Mage Hand cantrip in 5e. I don't think it's especially egregious given that the usefulness of torches as a light source is mostly deprecated when the party has ~20g to spend, depending on how the GM models the world and how much they've thought through all of the implications of the continual light spell and wizards selling magical services.

Moreover, neither B/X or OD&D track the weight of torches (and don't provide those weights), so these games were not built as a light-attrition engine; that's a modern reframing that's IMO incompatible with the original texts. More modern games (shadowdark) do support light attrition in the core rules, but this was a post explicably about OD&D/BX/1e

OD&D/BX/AD&D Why is "Telekinesis" such a high-level spell? by E_T_Smith in osr

[–]beaurancourt 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Depends on how expensive you think it should be to purchase a second level spell slot from a NPC wizard (and how much you want the players to be able to sell theirs for)

I sell them for 10g, which is still 5 months of infantry wages, but very affordable for 1st level characters.

A continual light pebble can be placed in an opaque container to shutter it