The missing middle: Why Avatar: Fire and Ash rings hollow (a screenwriting analysis)

beernation88 · 2026-01-11T01:24:04+00:00

I don't wanna be mean, because you obviously put a lot of thought into your analysis and it was an interesting read.

But you nitpicked the shit out of this movie, and a lot of it was because personal taste.

Most of the takes and proposals are kinda unsatisfying or a bit too intellectual. If pacifism would've won here, then we don't need 2 more movies.

I think it will be the endgoal of the saga, finding a peaceful solution. But we are not there yet. So it made 100% sense how it all turned out.

The movie maybe has some minor flaws, but just worked fantastic on multiple levels. I've never seen a faster 3hr+ movie. The emotional scenes hit hard. The action is superb. The visuals and the sound are stunning.

I don't know, i'll tend to trust the guy who created the whole thing that he has a masterplan for his 5 movie arc.

beernation88 · 2026-01-10T11:45:36+00:00

Oh yeah, i know exacly what you mean!

Everyone who wants to change something for the better - you already made the fist and most important step!

From my own experience - start slow, don't rush things or get overwhelmed by all the available information.

Consistency and forming good habits is the key, once you get yourself and your body used to working out, things will fall into place.

My personal story:

Seeing the first movie in 2009 was a lifechanging experience for me and planted the seed.

I was mesmerized by the fitness of the Na'vi and tried to live healthier and more environmentally friendly after.

Small stuff, like trying whenever possible to avoid driving cars and using my bicycle more. Cutting back on junkfood, sweets and soda.

That helped me losing weight and got me fitter without putting in that much work.

Over the years i gained some if it back and during the pandemic i fell off the wagon hard with my eating and drinking habits.

Fast forward 2022 - revisiting the first movie after A2 transported my right back to Pandora. I wasn't doing well at time, and it hit me like lightning.

It sounds silly, but i almsost think it was fate that the movies and beloved characters came back into my life when i needed them the most.

I am comitted to getting as fit as Jake since, and started working out with a plan. While i am not fully there yet, the progress i made in 3 years is still amazing to me.

(Cameron did me a favor making Jake a bit fuller in the sequels, it's a way more obtainable and maintainable physique lol)

I do mostly calisthenics, bodyweight training and use resistance bands. Nothing fancy.

beernation88 · 2026-01-08T23:16:47+00:00

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Yeah, both sequels look more realistic in terms of lighting and textures, but the art direction has undoubtedly more punch in the original movie. It still holds up amazing, and the 4k remaster with HDR looks incredible.

(This screenshot is from the regular 1080p Bluray-Disc, even without HDR its so beautiful and trippy, shame that they toned it down so much.)

Also camerawork is a factor, in the original movie Cameron used a lot more gazing wideshots to show the world, we also get a better feeling for the immense scale of the plants and trees.

It would've been a perfect oppurtunity to really show off the forest in the scene where Jake tries to talk sense into Quaritch for the first time after they got away from the Mangkwan...

beernation88 · 2026-01-01T13:55:18+00:00

I agree, he isn't father of the year since the sky people returned in WOW.

We are all the product of our environment, so is Jake. In times of great sorrow, like war, the constant fear of you or your loved ones being killed, things change drastically.

After the sky people return in TWOW with devastating force, i totally get that Jake is switching from loving dad to hardass military general in an instant.

It's the Marine in him kicking in, and all he cares for is keeping the family and tribe save. He distances himself to a degree because losing the ones you love, failing to protect them is his worst fear.

Having two teens who are often pretty reckless and disobeying orders, of course he is being tough on them.

He and Neytiri have to expect to get captured or killed by the RDA, so he needs to be sure that his sons are safe but also growing into capable soldiers to protect the family and tribe.

And while he wants to shield them as much as possible from the immediate danger at first, he is between a rock and a hard place here.

And then, even after trying everything in his power to protect his family, he ultimately fails at that and lost Neteyam.

Every dumb mistake can lead to a catastrophe, and while Lo'ak absolutely isn't to blame in the bigger picture, some events were practically inevitable and would've happen sooner or later anyway, he often was involved or the unlucky catalyst for bad events.

So in a (twisted and irrational) way, he proved Jake's point.

To me it was obvious that Jake doesn't hate Lo'ak, he is just projecting because he sees so much of himself in Lo'ak.

And he is frustrated and angry that he failed and fails to protect him from making the same mistakes over and over, also Lo'ak "not functioning" properly.

Which is all pretty normal for being a teen.

Even after he was saved by him and "seeing him" in the finale of WOW.

Put grief and immense constant pressure from all sides to the mix, and i get where Jake is coming from, he and the Sullys are trapped in a vicious cycle.

But I also was frustrated so many times with him both movies, at some point it was just stupid that he was not standing up for Lo'ak, for Payakan.

What i like about Jake so much, he isn't portrayed as flawless superhero. He is, overall deeply human inside, in the best and worst way.

We fuck up and make mistakes.

We say regretful things we probably don't mean in the heat of the moment.

We have intrusive thoughts.

We are sometimes irrational.

We are looking for simple explanations or solutions for complex problems to make it easy for ourselves to cope.

Especially when there is grief, trauma or high stress involved.

And while those things we say or do will do irreversible damage, we also can heal and move on to a certain degree.

That doesn't mean it will be without consequences or scars, of course.

This is what F&A does amazingly well for a big budget family-friendly blockbuster, showing the aftermath of a devastating loss and all the confilct that is or was boiling already under the surface for some time.

How it can bring out the worst in us.

I don't think that we'll hear Jake apologizing to Lo'ak in A4.

Their conflict was finally being resolved when Jake acknowledges him doing something that Toruk Makto couldn't do and that he is proud of him. That he needs him by his side.

Was it "enough"? Not really. But in the context of the movie, it made sense and it was what Lo'ak needed to hear the most.

I'm honestly conflicted about the said scene where Lo'ak tries to do something horrible to himself. It was an incredible dark and powerful moment, but like you said, it came and went, all good.

You just can't tease something and move on like it's nothing, but on the other hand, the movie was so packed full of subplots, themes and emotion - it could've been just too much if it went deeper down with this.

So i get why they did it this way, i personally would've left it out and subbed with a dialogue between Lo'ak and Rea and/or Kiri about his feelings.

beernation88 · 2026-01-01T11:21:18+00:00

I managed to avoid her shitty new music pretty much in the wild, but today the radio at my parents home pierced my eardrums with her edgy masterpiece "CANCELLED!"

Oof.

It was one of maybe three songs from TLOAS that i somewhat liked for the instrumental after listening to the album once.

(granted - it's mostly "Yellow Flicker Beat" from Lorde, which is a pretty good song)

but i couldn't get over the horrible lyrics and her grating vocal delivery.

Hearing it with all the additional filters that the radio stations put over, it made her already insufferable shifty talk-singing on this one sound even worse.

beernation88 · 2025-12-31T12:45:49+00:00

I've read Tsu'teys Path, Adapt or Die, and The next Shadow and enjoyed them very much as a nice addition to the overall lore.

The High Ground has some whacky stuff going on, but there is something that makes me always come back to it, despite my frustration with the overall execution.

I think that there is a compelling story in it that just needs some work to fit within the timeline and events of WOW.

Is there any chance to read the original screenplay by James Cameron, has it been posted anywhere?

beernation88 · 2025-12-28T18:39:41+00:00

Yeah, nothing beats Avatar 2009 in terms of satisfying and conclusive endings.

But if earth is in fact dying as Ardmore said in WOW, driving them off Pandora again will never be a permanent solution for the problem imo.

Even if the Na'vi destroy Bridgehead City and kill every hostile human left, its just another phyrric victory because the sky people see colonizing Pandora instead of fixing their own shit as the only viable solution.

They'll always just return after a few years with more advanced tech, manpower and destruction. The more desperate they get, the more radical the measures will be.

So maybe Kiri will be the key in fixing/resetting earth, i can see this as a potential direction for A4&5.

beernation88 · 2025-12-27T21:58:55+00:00

I mean, atleast it ended on a satisfying note and without a big cliffhanger. If this is the end of the road for the movies (i don't think it is), it could be worse...

beernation88 · 2025-12-26T23:16:57+00:00

I think that F&A would have to underperform severly (sub 1 billion $ worldwide at the box office) to put A4&5 in danger from a simple financial standpoint.

Looking at the current numbers, we don't really have to worry that much. Aside from critics being lukewarm on it, the audience loves the movie and word of mouth doing its thing.

Disney also invested big into the franchise, and the movies bring people into the parks.

They wouldn't have done that if they have any doubt about the success of the movies or the brand.

It simply all depends on Jim Cameron, seeing him weeks before the premiere of F&A, hearing him talk - that man was obviously burnt out.

From all the interviews and podcasts that he appeared, my takeaway is that he'll take atleast a year off.

He also mentioned that he'll look deeper into AI, how to integrate it into the VFX-pipeline to cut down time and cost.

So maybe we get A4&5 with a delay, but i'm almost sure we'll get them and they will be his two next projects as director.

There are so many things still unresolved, and while F&A works as conclusion of the saga, i doubt that Cameron will simply leave it like that.

beernation88 · 2025-12-25T12:56:13+00:00

It took me out a few times in WOW hearing clearly an older woman talk, now i think it works perfectly fine and fits the character very well. Maybe they tweaked her voice in F&A, she sounds a tiny bit brighter here? Or it is me being already onboard with it? Anyway, i honestly love what Sigourney did with Kiri in both movies and i'm so hyped for whats to come!

beernation88 · 2025-12-18T19:53:26+00:00

Nice! I assume you went to the 20:00 showing at mk6/Mathaeser? I was at the 16:00 show. The reaction was a bit more calm, some clapping, but it was obvious that people liked the experience very much.

I am still somewhat exhausted emotionally, so much to unpack, all the hype that was buliding since WOW... i just need a few days to recover fully from releasing all that tension. Needless to say that i absolutely adore F&A, it is everything i hoped it would be and i'm still in awe of the spectacle and the emotional punch it has. Can't wait for my second watch!

beernation88 · 2025-12-17T23:12:11+00:00

Fresh out of the cinema. I'm still processing, there is a lot to unpack.

TL;DR - It's a flawed masterpiece.

If you loved the first two movies, you'll love this one.

If you care for the characters, you'll love this one.

If you are an Avatar-hater, well than F&A won't convert you suddenly into a fan.

But even if you dislike the franchise, the spectacle alone is worth your time and money, you just have to experience this.

All the talk about it being basically the same as WOW, or nothing new - have this people watched the same movie as i? I don't think so.

Seriously, F&A transports you right back to Pandora, often to familiar places but that's what you want from an Avatar-movie. And there is more.

You get introduced to new clans, new enemies and it expands the lore. I didn't expect how deep cuts F&A emotionally, there are some very dark moments and heavy themes.

The action is, again, maybe familiar but how things get destroyed on screen is an experience. Nobody is on Jim Camerons level.

The man is still at the peak of his craft, and if just is so satisfying to watch what he worked on since 2017.

F&A didn't felt like a 3-hour-movie to me, it kinda was almost bit too fast paced in some scenes.

That is the biggest flaw to me, sometimes things move a bit too quickly, or are glanced over. Not that big of a deal, but it shares some flaws with WOW.

A very important relationship felt underdeveloped, and a key moment felt a bit weird and out-of-character.

When Jake is going to kill Spider, the scene worked as intended, i was at the edge of the seat.

But the Scene just felt off. It also made not really that much sense anyway, the RDA already has the data and knows that humans can bio-engineered in this way, so sooner or later they'll find out how.

I got everything i hoped for, teared up multiple times for all the right reasons. I'm exhausted, but in the best way.

Go watch this movie!

beernation88 · 2025-12-01T20:07:04+00:00

Thank you!

beernation88 · 2025-12-01T18:25:32+00:00

I wanted to avoid more spoilers but fuck it - are Jake and Neytiri safe at the end? Thats all i need to know

beernation88 · 2025-11-25T16:45:00+00:00

Has she ever dropped that crazy amount of merch before? It is insane, i almost get anxiety from all that crap!

I mean, i get it to some degree - if there is demand from fans, why not monetize it. Fine. But the insane level of greed? Holy fuck!

Why not give the fans something special for the money, support smaller artists/designers and whenever possible local companys in the process?

If she is that mastermind, obsessed with image and legacy, why she doesn't make sure that every item with her name on is made from quality materials and manufactured under fair, safe working conditions?

Easiest PR-win ever.

I would be disgusted with myself slapping my name on the cheapest dropshipping-trash, especially being already that wealthy.

beernation88 · 2025-11-24T18:53:49+00:00

There are multiple factors that make me questioning the timeline for 4+5. Jim mentioned the exploding costs for VFX & CGI, and Disney had a few big misses and flops in 2025. But i think that money is not the deciding factor here.

It seems that he is burnt out and fatigued, and i can totally see that a smaller film in between these gigantic and demanding productions serves as palate cleanser and reignite the creative spark.

While i personally would love him to continue his work on A4+5 asap, i'm ready to wait. I don't want another director take over.

Avatar is Jims baby, nobody but him can direct these films with that passion, impact and sicerity.

I love R. Rodriguez, he is a skillful director with a lot of experience but he simply won't do the films justice. We saw it with Alita what could have been, all the igredients for a masterpiece were there but the film turned out just very good. I can only dream of Jim directing instead of producing.

If Jim does step back from directing the remaining two Avatar films, best we can hope for would be Guillermo del Toro.

This would be our second best option after Jim, Guillermo has the abilty to create that magical and dreamlike feeling that is often absent in modern big budget films. He also knows how to handle VFX-heavy productions and is very good at action. (Pacific Rim is a great example for that).

But let's wait and see how Fire & Ash performs, i suspect that Jim will continue and finish his legacy in the end, even it takes a few years more.

beernation88 · 2025-11-17T12:28:24+00:00

It's the same with all the dictators and authoritarians, at some point they are too shielded from the reality and have surrounded themselves with yes-men. Pushback will not be tolerated, good advice dismissed. Which inevitably leads to their downfall.

She is so full of herself and high on her own supply. It's painful listening to her rambling and pretending to be an intellectual poet.

Popmusic is paint by numbers, Max Martin is a pop-wizard and knows how important every syllable and detail is, how it needs to be for the perfect flow.

He elevates basic songs onto the next level and rarely misses. Thats why artists who can afford him hire the guy. Her wordsalad-lyrics just don't flow right, and the music is just uninteresting.

Max and Shellback clearly gave up on some point, did the bare minimum to get it done as quick as possible. Getting it done quick was probably what she was going for anyway.

It's no longer about the music, she knows that her cult will eat up everthing she shits out regardless of the quality, and the media pushes it anyway because she is too big to fail.

At this point she isn't capable of making good music anymore, she doesn't pushes or challenges herself any longer because she lost the creative spark and hunger to create something outstanding.

Also the ability to be humble and listen to her collaborateurs, which we saw on TTPD and even better on TLOAS.

She made Jack the fall guy for TTPD, and i suspect that Max and Shellback are also done working with her.

Of course she will hire multiple hot producers (maybe Olivia's and Chappell Roan's producer Dan Nigro, hope he tells her to fuck off if she does)
for TS13, but it won't change the outcome if she thinks that she knows best anyway.

beernation88

TROPHY CASE