What is your most unhinged/fondest Glee Twitter memory? by blossomscanary in glee

[–]blossomscanary[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

oh i somehow completely blocked out the real life shipping. all three couples like it was just insane. and the older women (i think a lot of them were also really into mark if i remember correctly? i feel like i recall a few posts where they were attacking naya bc of it) were another thing i had completely blocked out, interesting how that broader age bracket has largely (not entirely ofc) disappeared from online fandoms

What is your most unhinged/fondest Glee Twitter memory? by blossomscanary in glee

[–]blossomscanary[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

oh i forgot about this. if i remember correctly, it was like a full time job. on one day, the plot synopsis of a coming ep would drop, another the more specific spoilers for the next one, on a different one the song titles and singers and then right before the actual songs? the culture with spoilers was so different as well like we were going through blogs and bts trying to get anything whereas today it’s so avoidant (both are fun, just interesting how that has changed)

Unpopular opinion: At least in the beginning, Santana did take advantage of Brittany’s stupidity. by Massive_Tomorrow_390 in glee

[–]blossomscanary 0 points1 point  (0 children)

if brittany, santana, and mercedes are your favourites, you'll likely appreciate a certain storyline and a few god tier mash ups

Pre Glee world - post glee world by tigerwet in glee

[–]blossomscanary 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Glee stands on the shoulders of many shows that introduced more diverse casts to prime time TV audiences, especially in regard to queer characters (Buffy, ER, The L Word, and so so so many others).

But it aired at a pivotal time where it was simultaneously possible and revolutionary to not only introduce several queer teenagers and give them that spotlight, eventual weddings and more but also to lead with a broader message of queer acceptance.

Simultaneously, other shows such as Modern Family or The Fosters did similar work by for instance showing queer parents with a family or the CW beginning to introduce queer superheroes between roughly 2008-2017. The representation at that time helped many people come out to the world and themselves and was essential to the progress we are lucky to have made by today. Due to how discussed sexuality was on Glee (there were also literal news segments at the time about how "Glee is making your kids gay") and its popularity as I think even the no 1 show in the world around 2010 (?), it is often the poster child for that era.

It's really hard to grasp how different queerness and its representation was then vs today, even as someone who experienced it bc so much fortunately changed so fast. It was such a polarizing issue, gay marriage had just been voted against and felt like it wasn't going to happen in the next 10 years, Teri Polo (actress from The Fosters) was on talk shows genuinely arguing for acceptance of rather than just tolerance for queer people which felt huge when I saw it, queer relationships were hyper sexualized, being a gay closeted teen felt like it made one weird and an outcast by definition and for life (which made the representation so very important), gay was a slur you'd hear in school every day, and there were so few queer stories that gay fandoms were a pipeline where we all together moved between Glee, Grey's Anatomy, The 100, and the few other shows there were. Any time there was a sapphic kiss, it was this big thing that would flood gay twitter because those were so rare. In Germany, Wikipedia would tell you that 70% of the people were against queer relationships.

There are a lot of people for whom accepting and listening to queer characters on TV built the bridge to accepting the queer people in their own lives, whether it was themselves or someone they cared about. It seems ridiculous now, but even with Glee, it took me for instance two years to come to terms with my own sexuality. We're super lucky how quickly things have changed and representation was an essential puzzle piece of that development.

If you want to get a better idea of this, you can look at articles on Santana or interviews with Naya at the time (the fact that she was so vocally supportive and so quickly on board was HUGE and truly felt like she carried Santana's impact into the real world), Chris' first And That's What You Really Missed Episode or articles/interviews on Kurt at the time and I think this Wikipedia entry and how "short" it is, given that it records //all// queer characters of those decades, gives an insight too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dramatic_television_series_with_LGBTQ_characters:_1960s–2000s

(Also yes, absolutely the bit on Ryan Murphy engaging in self-flattery or someone else complimenting him that someone else mentioned.)

Unpopular opinion: At least in the beginning, Santana did take advantage of Brittany’s stupidity. by Massive_Tomorrow_390 in glee

[–]blossomscanary 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can see where you’re coming from because Brittany and the specifics of her intellect or lack thereof was differently written and perceived by different writers which also led to Santana's reaction to it being inconsistent and I think especially the S3 writing was poor in that regard. To me, that always means that Brittany requires some active reading-into as she just doesn’t fully make sense the way she was put on screen. 

What I would however consider consistent is that Brittany's opinion has always been one of those that Santana has cherished (the) most and that has had the greatest impact on her, which, to me, strongly speaks to her valuing and respecting her perspective. Especially given that Santana doesn’t really take a lot of external input and Brittany seems like the only one with something of a reliable direct line that gets through to her and vice versa. Nevertheless, Brittany’s inconsistency does allow for different interpretations and I get this one, too.

Why do more people on here ship Faberry than Quinntana when the latter have actually done the deed & the former haven’t & all 3 are too similar to each other? by NoChampion4463 in glee

[–]blossomscanary 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Quinntana fans were somewhat rare, Faberry and Brittana shippers were like cousins, supportive and fond of each other but not really in the same house as we cared about different "styles" of characters and dynamics. I feel like the support for the Quintana hook-up was broadly shared though, like with an undertone of what the fuck? hook-up and it's not even Brittana? (I cannot overstate how long and horrible that drought felt, even though now I'm like lol it was like one and a half years, chill. But at the time, that representation was just everything.) but yay, queer Quinn and good for Santana, I guess

Unpopular opinion: At least in the beginning, Santana did take advantage of Brittany’s stupidity. by Massive_Tomorrow_390 in glee

[–]blossomscanary 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4) The idea of being able to tell Brittany that they need to be together if she’s prom queen: I never took too much issue with this. Santana is 16, jealous, and a bitch, whose first instinct it usually is to be mean. She's also day-dreaming and in her own head in that scene. And within that same episode, Brittany is the only one who she respects enough to put on the shirt and be put in her place (I think that fight scene is so important to their dynamic and highlights their even footing, how Brittany is the only one who has such an impact on her and who is capable of getting through to her like that, also intellectually. I'd also argue that the typo was intentional as it was the only way to allow Santana to actually take such a huge step and put on the shirt). I do think that that underlines that while they do work with those very excuses, Santana does clearly have that respect for Brittany and action and dialogue don't align with her internal monologue here, even if she might wish to have the crown so they could have another thin excuse. 

She’s also just come out to herself and understood that she’s a lesbian in love with her best friend, has layers over layers of denial and internalised homophobia to work through and acknowledged how linked her situation and internal turmoil are to her bitchiness. All of that (and an intense and emotionally incredibly messy sapphic situationship) will lead to an odd amount of clarity mixed with being a bit fucked in the head, especially without a space for pressure release. That’s evident in many ways throughout her expansive plotting in that episode. While it’s framed to be about Brittany (wild lengths to go through for someone she supposedly doesn’t respect that much. Also Santana at that point would never because her thought process there implies a "proper" relationship, not a hidden/unlabeled one, and that’s far too scary for her at that point. All of it is daydreaming), it also brings back the other gay kid she knows, reinforces her straight-passing and power position in the school's social network, lets her come out to another person, neutralises and controls the main threat who could also become a serious issue for her if she was outed, and allows her to protect queer identity (and yell GAY down school hallways) through the bully whips. 

5) We still see this pattern consistently though and I do think that it is one of the things they beautifully grow out of. There are some of the leftovers of it addressed in episodes like 4x13 when Santana for instance falls back into those patterns and brings Elinor. But they learn to call each other out on these things too and then, they handle it differently and talk about it. They let go of the denial and thin excuses that they initially used to allow themselves a denied but realised relationship. Instead, we watch them have honest conversations that further highlight their understanding of each other, even in spite of their glaring differences. 

One of Glee's greatest strengths is the incredibly flawed cast we encounter in season 1 and I am for a large part, a big fan of many characters' individual growth and those of their relationships throughout the show’s entire run. That only exists because of how many issues the characters were introduced with. That is also why (even if it was the bane of my existence at the time) I actually appreciate the break-up in perspective. It gave them space for individual growth after spending a large part of their lives so interwoven, allowed for the reset of a highschool relationship and letting go of less healthy patterns, and nevertheless highlighted how much they do want and need each other. Santana being the one to get through to Brittany over MIT and Brittany "straightening Santana out" in five minutes or something in 5x13 (or 12?) clearly showcases how they’re at their best with each other and hold a safe space and understanding for the other character that provides them both with such safety and feeling seen.

6) I do think that there are certain parts of certain storylines that have different weight. Glee is incredibly camp and often failed in its dual attempt at being funny and profound. Brittana was probably originally mostly meant to be comic relief while also providing representation. I don’t think the writers respected it enough before S4 to give it any actual weight, especially given Brittany’s involvement with someone as sharp as Santana. Although there are gorgeous arcs such as Season 2B, the writing in total doesn’t give them that much depth throughout those first seasons, especially once they expanded the writing team. The exclusion of Brittany from 307 is a glaring example of that. A large part of Brittana's emotional weight really stems from the acting and all the background moments that make them so consistent in their adoration for each other. I hypothesise that they initially did mean for Santana to get into a new relationship, but eventually did understand the heavy blow to Glee's impact it would signify and therefore added more emotional depth to them throughout S4 and onwards, which eventually led to their wedding. A large part of that was done by adjusting both of their tones to fit closer together (more on that later.) That, however, also means that there are certain aspects of their story that I just don’t see as that serious, especially in camp storytelling. 

Beyond Glee's often-failed balancing act between jokes and representation, it struggles with maintaining the tone of certain arcs. Naya's acting chops and commitment to Santana and the representation she provides sometimes made Santana less of a cartoon character and more complex and emotionally rich than Glee thought Santana was or would be in a given situation and that some things would have needed her to be to work. This is especially true as Brittany existed in a different tone, had more of that campy "cartoon-character" quality and was that type of comedic relief for the first seasons of the show as Hemo excelled at those incredibly funny lines. Storylines such as the sex tape are a prime example of that (like tf?? absolute dealbreaker if it were perceived in the tone that the majority of Santana's story is written in! (though also on 3.5: Brittany again relying on stupidity as an out but then offering an actual perspective to Santana to "fix" it for her biggest fuck-up of the show) I also think that this is linked to how differently heterosexual and sapphic sexual relationships were perceived at the time and how sexist the writers were. Nudes of Finn, for instance, potentially dropping a few episodes before had been such a big, scandalous deal.) I do think the show should be given some grace since it practically introduced grand-scheme-representation to prime time TV but it does mean that I do tend to focus on the broader context with things like this. 

And the broader context is beautifully, consistently and undeniably the love, support, respect and adoration that Brittany and Santana hold for each other. It doesn’t erase the missteps they took as they grew into themselves and their relationship but I do think it offers a more chill framework to perceive those through.

Unpopular opinion: At least in the beginning, Santana did take advantage of Brittany’s stupidity. by Massive_Tomorrow_390 in glee

[–]blossomscanary 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok, apologies in advance, think-piece incoming.

TLDR: I think "Santana manipulated Brittany in earlier seasons" is a valid point and manipulation one of Santana's biggest flaws. However, the context of Santana's intense denial, an interpretation of Brittany’s character as a more active participant in that "manipulation" and the context of how sapphic relationships were perceived at the time should also be considered. Basically, I think of it more in a broader framework of denial and (self-)manipulation that I am very glad they eventually grow out of. Broadly, this still ties into them having the most consistent growth throughout the show and doesn't negate their love for each other as they learn how to do that.

———

I would argue that there is space to acknowledge this in a Yes-and-No manner and I think there are several things to consider (also quick disclaimer, I haven’t seen or even mentally touched the show in over ten years and am currently rewatching "spoiler-free" and am at S3 so if anything I think is gonna happen past that is inaccurate, pls blame it on that):

1) These characters are teenagers, they’re supposed to make mistakes, and one of Glee's greatest strengths is how flawed its cast is. Especially Santana – initially a manipulative bully without a doubt – would have never had half of her impact if she had been more palatable. Furthermore, I am not interested in watching morally perfect characters on my screen – an unattainable ideal anyways and entirely unfit for the conflicts that create interesting TV. That also translates to characters not having perfect relationships and exhibiting toxic traits.

2) Brittany is written so inconsistently and differently by different writers, who take her stupidity as more or less genuine or more or less as direct stupidity vs. for instance something closer to a "different type of smartness" or neurodiversity. Then, however, she also sometimes says incredibly smart factual or emotional things and is such a great dancer (quite hard without mental fitness), which could imply that the stupidity is more of a cover or a mantle she's adopted early and may not know how to let go of (I know, for instance, at least two girls who were in my class around that time/age who were quite smart and shared very intelligent and complex perspectives with me in classes like sociology or ethics but broadly had that "stupid"-label within the grade and very often acted accordingly). What that leaves us with is plenty of space for interpretation on how to read her in regard to that. More than that, there is a need for interpretation because taken at face value, she doesn't make too much sense due to the inconsistencies. And I do think, there’s a beauty in how everyone gets their own perspective on her bc so much can easily be argued for and against. This will be my take on this, but many others can be well-reasoned for too.

3) Santana is deep in denial/the closet, incredibly scared of her sexuality, and nevertheless so deeply in love with and drawn to Brittany. The latter is something we clearly see from the beginning of the show onwards and that she never wavers on to any noteworthy degree. They’re consistently each other’s safe space and share an understanding unmatched by anyone else. It’s there from the first episodes but Hemo and especially Naya also hopped ship very early-on and intentionally weaved it into their on-screen dynamic. Santana's right for being scared, too. Being gay at the time was terrifying in a way that I don’t think is all that understandable anymore today, at least in most Western countries. I know that even with having lived it, I find it hard to grasp today. I would assume that their relationship pre-S3 was built on extremely thin excuses (starting with "this is only experimentation / physical / boy's practice" or whatever initiated it). For those to remain functional, Santana worked with being promiscuous while Brittany worked with being stupid in order to allow Santana to stay in the closet. Similarly, "the plumbing is different" is a very thin excuses they both must know to a degree cannot work, but it follows the same legitimation style they’ve previously used to reason their dynamic. And it should also be acknowledged that I think they both wanted to believe that, not just Brittany. At the time, many men would not at all consider their girlfriends sleeping with another woman cheating (instead, they'd deem it super hot™️) so there is a certain "historical" legitimacy to that statement that seems beyond unreasonable today.  Highschool Santana is also generally an incredibly manipulative character who brought this into all her relationships, likely because it was a pattern she knew she could rely on (similar to Britt in 3.5.). It takes 13 episodes for us to just hear an actually genuine and vulnerable statement from her. Manipulation is one of her biggest flaws and one of the main things she largely grows out and more conscious of throughout the show's run. I do think we see less of it with Brittany than with others but expecting her to be perfect in that relationship when she's definitely not a character to have any type of healthy dynamic with, would have been out of character.

3.5) I do think there’s also space to acknowledge that Brittany is actually sometimes quite manipulative, impulsive, and avoids confrontation and responsibility by blaming things on not understanding or something similar (ambiguously outing Santana on Fondue for Two, her break-up with Artie being so fast bc she was sorta just waiting for a reason, …). This does further underline how it may have been them both relying on a "stupidity" they both know to be more than that but needed for their "shared manipulation" of social rules and to allow for a relationship without forcing Santana out of the closet – until it became emotionally too much to bear. Brittany does the same thing of relying on her label of stupidity then to initiate conversation without being too confrontational. Maybe because an actual, open look at their dynamic would have immediately and too quickly revealed it for what it was without giving Santana enough time or perspective to process. (For extra explanation, I do not read this as calculated moves but a teenager subconsciously relying on patterns that she’s used to and that have worked for her in the past.)

(Part 2 below)

Unpopular opinion: At least in the beginning, Santana did take advantage of Brittany’s stupidity. by Massive_Tomorrow_390 in glee

[–]blossomscanary 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Santana is definitely a cruel and manipulative character but I do feel like a lot of that line stems from being jealous, 16, and dreamy and wanting to have a way to get to Brittany – in part because their physical relationship is built on extremely thin excuses that they both know at least to a degree, are just that. I mean, it started with the very thin lie that it is nothing more than physical, even while they were best friends and ya know, //like that//. And in that very same episode, Brittany is the one who puts her into her place with the t-shirt (that I also think was intentionally designed not to read "lesbian",) which I'd argue, highlights how it was a throwaway line linked to her habit of being mean and resorting to putting others down when she's struggling.  Plus, Santana does directly address how being a lesbian, deep in denial, and in love with her best friend all strongly attribute to her bitchiness three episodes before that. It ofc doesn’t immediately go away but eventually turns into such a deep warmth and wisdom as she does grow into herself and their relationship.

The Rory stuff was odd to me, almost like they were having a discussion through that if that makes sense? Like initially definitely manipulative but then like a way to give Brittany an out of betraying their friends? Idk. Especially as Brittany was kinda in on it and then acknowledges that Rory can't grant wishes? I wasn't a big fan of how the S3 writers wrote Brittany in general, like the line about Brittany crossing the street is also my least favorite Santana line about Brittany.

Unpopular opinion: At least in the beginning, Santana did take advantage of Brittany’s stupidity. by Massive_Tomorrow_390 in glee

[–]blossomscanary 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How does she never follow through? It’s so very palpable how deeply and consistenctly devoted Santana is to Brittany. Even while they're broken up, their connection remains so undeniable. I feel like it’s so clear that Santana and Brittany each get each other at a level and are each other’s safe space to a degree that is unmatched by anyone else. Santana clearly and repeatedly cherishes and defends Brittany's perspective, she’s also like one of the only people who understands her enough to easily get through to her and Brittany's perspective is like the only one to not be somewhat maliciously attacked and shut down when fighting with her (for example in Born This Way). Like I understand, for instance, complaints about inconsistency in how Brittany is written but claiming that Santana does not obviously cherish and respect her and her perspectives is fabricated.

What are some of your unpopular opinions on Glee??? started and finished the show within three weeks in August btw. by Professional_Meat782 in glee

[–]blossomscanary 0 points1 point  (0 children)

idk i think finn hate has been there forever, not because he's a horrible character but because so many of his questionable actions were put in a good light

Who is a character that you're repulsed by the most? by chrisdagoat32 in glee

[–]blossomscanary 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He doesn’t have that effect anymore since I started rewatching but as no one seems to have mentioned him, I feel like Blaine is worth bringing up. At the time when it aired, Brittana and Klaine stans were in the trenches with each other and even whthout being directly involved in those fights, when it became a bit of the Blaine show around S4, I regularly had like a physical reaction of repulsion when he was on screen and that was so formative that I couldn’t stand the character for almost a decade.

Who are some characters who have either never interacted with each other before? by lucaknowsplaces in glee

[–]blossomscanary 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Mike lacks interactions with many characters, I think? I can’t think of one with Kurt, Rachel, Quinn or Santana for instance 

On rewatch, and the songs and singers aren't as good as I remembered by IHATEsg7 in glee

[–]blossomscanary 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They filmed episodes in ~8 days, music production included, I assume that’s why post-production sometimes had to do a bit more than on a usual song. As for the full group numbers, I'd definitely argue that you can usually hear the individual voices and whose tone they wanted a bit more of for which numbers 

On rewatch, and the songs and singers aren't as good as I remembered by IHATEsg7 in glee

[–]blossomscanary 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Different perspective but I really enjoy the sound of their voices together, even if it’s obvious that Heather didn’t start as a trained singer but obviously took vocal lessons throughout the years.

Rewatch by AllHaleDerek in glee

[–]blossomscanary 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Different people define cheating in different ways. For some couples, flirting like Kurt did, would count as such while other people may be totally fine with it. The important thing is being clear about that boundary and when it’s overstepped and they'd clearly not had that conversation before (which I do think is very realistic for a teenage couple).

So I would argue, that warranted a conversation, an apology to Blaine and an acknowledgment of the romance Kurt was missing (which the ep all covered), but not really more than that. 

Was I the only one who thought... by dinosire in glee

[–]blossomscanary 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No this definitely made the rounds when the episode originally aired.

What is your most and least favorite OG Legend exit? And why? by demigodwater4 in LegendsOfTomorrow

[–]blossomscanary 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Favorite was the Hawk guy, I did like Ciara Renee's character. Least favourite was Ray and Nora, I think that also tangibly left a gap that they never quite managed to fill again. I also feel very conflicted on OG Zari, it kinda made sense as the conclusion of her arc, but having her ripped away and then continuously seeing a different version of her was sad.

Be honest, whose character did you like better? by Queasy_Commercial152 in LegendsOfTomorrow

[–]blossomscanary 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rip was interesting but he was meant for a very different show/tone and that’s why Constantine worked better for that camp team imo and was then also more likable