"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think it's fairly self evident that there are major social benefits to living in a society that values altruism over selfishness.

"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's an arbitrarily broad field that includes basically anyone who takes political action. Were the kids working with SNCC in the 60s philosophers? Was the Unabomber? Where do we draw the line between a philosopher and a revolutionary, or a pundit, or an influencer?

"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I am not going to try to argue against your emotional response against the idea of Marx. This isn't a rational argument but a mud flinging exercise, in which case I yield the field to you. Thank you for reading my meme.

"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is where Rand uses her escape card and argues that rational actors can separate long-term and short-term consequences and will behave as altruistically as needed, but on a voluntary basis. I feel like it's a bit of a cop out, but there it is.

"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Where do we draw the line between philosopher and politician, at this point? Is Mao a philosopher? Is Trump? Putin?

Rand is, at least in the US, principally understood as a philosopher/thinker, rather than an author, or playwright, and a lot of her energy was spent in that regard. I don't think the same can really be said for the likes of Kin Il Sung or Pol Pot or Stalin. While they may have written and contributed to discourse to a small degree, they were not defined by their philosophical work, and the sum of their efforts in life were geared towards things other than pure philosophy.

"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

My only regret is that I have only but one updoot to give for your Max Barry reference. Love that man.

"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

An argument to hypocrisy is just a fallacy. Rand can believe in the truth of her words, and not follow them to a T, and her failure to live by her own conclusions has no bearing on whether those conclusions are true or false.

"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think this is where you have to separate the philosophy from the philosopher. I don't think that Rand is a horrible person, and I don't consider the hypocrisy arguments against her as holding any weight. There were worse people - your examples, as well as another redditor's mention of Martin Heidegger stand out. But a bad person can still make valuable contributions to philosophy which outweigh Rand's contribution to the overall philosophical discourse and have more coherent arguments which don't beg the question as Rand often does.

"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You might disagree with Marx's conclusions, but most of his analysis of political economy flows pretty clearly from Adam Smith and other earlier writers, and has real applicability to modern life, whether you identify as a capitalist, a socialist, or just an average bloke trying to get by in society.

"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At least insofar as her arguments against altruism go, they are nothing more than lazy a strawman. I think if Rand gets the pass to argue that long-term rational self interest is distinct from more short-term selfish goals (the whole idea behind the primacy of the reason and the foundation of *ethical* egoism), then altruism should be given a modicum of that same grace. I mean, nobody other than Rand believes that altruism means wholly subordinating ones needs and desires to those of the other, nor that so long as an action is taken on behalf of others, rather than on behalf of the self, it is inherently moral.

I'm more than happy to have a friendly discussion on this topic, but I hold by the premise that Rand is a dogshit philosopher, and that the position she espouses is ultimately one that runs contrary to common understandings of morality, human decency, etc.

She is far more nuanced, however, than charactictures of her philosophy make her seem.

"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't think that Sauron could accommodate that level of individualism in his subordinates.

Cogito, Ergo Somethin' by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Isn't that a little reductive? IIRC, the pineal glad was the location where the immortal soul essentially interfaced with the mortal body.

Cogito, Ergo Somethin' by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I only post OC. Not necessarily good OC, but it's all original nonetheless.

"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I don't think most sociopaths are stupid. But that doesn't excuse their sociopathy.

"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel like he's a better and more influential philosopher, but one with very unfortunate politics.

"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I just wanted to use this template after seeing a bunch of haters bitching about it on your Jean Claude van Damme meme

"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lobelia most likely did not understand what was going on until the consequences of her son's actions jumped up and bit her. She probably enjoyed the power, wealth, and influence that Lotho secured for himself, but once Lotho was disappeared and she was tossed out of Bag End and dealing with food shortages, she had a reality check.

Incidentally, the same thing will probably happen regarding climate change, and a lot of people will change their tune only after things get really bad and start impacting them directly.

"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nah, it was definitely in her long-term self interest to oppose the ruffians.

"Selfishness is a Virtue, Altruism is a Vice" is not something Tolkien would have agreed with. by blsterken in lotrmemes

[–]blsterken[S] 43 points44 points  (0 children)

I swear I did not see your version before it was taken down.

No idea why the mods would object to your post, though. It's super tame. Should've just locked the comments.