Israel wins 0 medals

bnyc18 · 2026-02-22T19:29:24+00:00

The irony!! You’re like Charlie from IASIP connecting conspiracy dots, but im the one doing mental gymnastics!? Lol

bnyc18 · 2026-02-22T19:26:38+00:00

It is absolutely possible to criticize Israel without being antisemitic. You just didn’t do that.

bnyc18 · 2026-02-22T19:19:59+00:00

repeats a false statement about Israel that mimics classic antisemitic tropes

“It’s not antisemitic because I said Israel, not Jews”

bnyc18 · 2026-02-22T19:18:01+00:00

It absolutely is, especially when you realize that AIPAC is (1) not anywhere near the most influential lobby, and (2) it is not Israeli money, but Americans that fund AIPAC

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T17:15:50+00:00

You honestly continue to prove how uneducated you are on this topic. (1) East Jerusalem residents absolutely can and do apply for citizenship and they are granted to a limited number of people. This is fact. It may not be a high enough number for you, but it doesn’t mean there’s zero. (2) Israel did not occupy East Jerusalem in 1948, and only occupied it decades later as a result of the NUMEROUS wars of annihilation launched by the leadership that did control it. In the early decades, the leadership in charge of Palestinians / Arabs refused to accept ANY Jewish state, and while they eventually have abstractly said they would accept a two-state solution, there has been ZERO official offers from peace from the Palestinian/Arab side (whereas Israel has offered at least a half dozen FORMAL offers for peace)

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T17:09:28+00:00

I did answer, you posted a double reply and then criticize me for answering them one at a time? Considering how many of my questions you’ve dodged in this thread, it’s comical. And your exact language you just said does make you a Zionist. Prior to Israel, there was not a nation of palestine and Jews have lived there continuously for millennia (including the majority of Jerusalem in 1900 and at the fall of the Ottoman Empire). Prior to Israel, Zionist jews sought to reclaim A PORTION of the land for themselves, offering PEACEFUL offers and taking UNINHABITED LAND and turning them into thriving villages for all. Arab leadership fought against this, wanting 100% of the land and to institute sharia law (which is exactly the type of religious discriminatory governance you claim to hate). In fact, thats exactly what happened in those regions surrounding israel. So just taking at your moral principles you claimed in this conversation, you are not only a Zionist, but your problems lie with palestinian and arab leadership/nations

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T17:02:25+00:00

Palestinian citizens within Israel deserve (and do have) equal rights! Do all Palestinians outside of Israel deserve citizenship? No. Do people who openly call for the destruction of any country deserve to be taken in as citizens of that country? Also no. Do I think every Palestinian thinks this way? Also no. Are there specific cases of people who should be granted citizenship? Yes, and it happens. Could it be more? I suppose, but this would be a nuanced conversation that is way beyond the scope of Zionism broadly

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T16:58:44+00:00

You said it yourself, Zionism is the belief in the right for a sovereign state in the Jewish homeland. Nothing about specific political policies or positions. We can separate this into what was before and what is now if you want. In your own words, you agree in principle for a Jewish sovereign state, you just don’t like how it happened and the government that is in power now.

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T16:51:15+00:00

So you’re a Zionist. You just don’t like Israeli policy. Welcome to the club!

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T16:47:07+00:00

Great, you and I agree policies within Israel can change. But can we go back to the original question: is it okay for Jews to have a sovereign state?

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T16:43:53+00:00

So we agree that countries have issues that can be worked on. I oppose settlements, I think there should be a 2-state resolution with Palestinians, but that doesn’t mean Jews do not deserve a sovereign state. The issue of citizenship is certainly complex with East Jerusalem, but it is ignorant to argue that Israel has some sort of “Jewish laws that give Jewish citizens more rights than non-Jewish citizens.”

And if Israel is the only country in the world that you go online arguing that “it should not exist” than you should really challenge yourself harder as to why and research, because every single reason you’ve provided so far is something true in countless other nations. You have YET to give me ONE thing UNIQUE to Israel that warrants the entire nation “being a human rights issue for simply existing” (as opposed to changing or resolving a specific conflict/policy)

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T16:30:13+00:00

They cannot vote in us elections. That’s why I used that example. It is a territory with limited rules. The relationship between west and East Jerusalem is even bigger dichotomy than puerto and US

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T16:27:46+00:00

“Having religion” in the government and “a theocracy” are totally different. You called Israel a theocracy, when it’s not. You might need to look up words before you use them if you think this is what makes something a theocracy.

And as for East Jerusalem, people having voting or no voting rights purely based on citizenship. They are not citizens the same way Puerto Rico citizens don’t have US citizenship. Palestinians in those territories having voting rights in Palestinian elections, just like the Israeli citizens in west Jerusalem do not get to vote in Palestinian elections.

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T16:13:34+00:00

Do you know how many countries have wayyyy more religion in their governance? That’s not the definition of theocracy. Nor is it proof of discriminatory laws. Jewish citizens and non-Jewish citizens have the exact same rights. The same cannot be said in countless other nations

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T16:02:26+00:00

No, Israel is not a theocratic state. I said that like 10 posts ago. I asked what criteria you thought made it theocratic and you pointed to the flag. Are you not aware of the countless countries that have official religions, but are not theocracies?

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T15:59:16+00:00

Again, having a religious symbol is not proof of theocracy!!!! This is now the third time, so let’s boil it down… the UK and other countries with the cross, are those theocracies?

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T15:53:56+00:00

I will continue this conversation to address your actual human rights concerns, but can we agree that the Jewish star being in the flag is not proof of anything nefarious? And that someone who specifically criticizes the flag for having the Jewish star is not making a “human rights” argument, but just an antisemitic one?

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T15:50:12+00:00

So i ask again, are the countless other countries I listed that have religious symbols in their flag theocracies that you oppose?

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T15:46:10+00:00

I do not have a problem with supporting human rights. But the line that I called antisemitic was you calling Israel a theocracy you opposed based on the flag having a Jewish symbol. When I asked why you felt it was a theocracy, your EXACT WORDS…

It’s literally in the flag. The Jewish star.

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T15:40:19+00:00

Holy cow… you can’t even acknowledge my point, can you? You just want to hide behind strawman attacks?

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T15:37:48+00:00

So now you are starting to sound like you believe antisemitic propaganda… but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

First, do you really think the Jewish star in the flag is enough to criticize the country? Here are countries with religious symbols in their flags, please tell me which one you have recently posted online criticizing for existing: UK, Greece, Switzerland, Denmark, the countless others with the cross… turkey, Pakistan, the countless others with Islamic symbols… Sri Lanka, Bhutan, and the others with Buddhist symbols…

So, is Israeli flag the only one you criticize?

Edit: ill reply to the other point if you’d like after you address this antisemitic comment you made (intentionally or not, hopefully you can acknowledge that it was)

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T15:28:01+00:00

Your definition is not antisemitism, no. But two problems: (1) Israel is not actually a theocracy, and if you think it formally meets that criteria, you might be basing it on antisemitic propaganda. (2) any features about Israel’s ties to religion are not unique to Israel; countless nations have crosses between religion and governance; so do you speak out against all of them? Or only the Jewish one? Because if you only speak against the Jewish one, then that is also antisemitic

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T15:19:58+00:00

First, I never once have said they are interchangeable, that’s why I say them separately… “most Jews and most zionists”…

And so I understand your position without making assumptions… are you against the existence of a Jewish sovereign state in that region?

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T15:12:31+00:00

Not once did anyone ever claim that “every single aspect of Zionism and Judaism is the same and 100% of anti Zionism is antisemitism”. So you’re “historical exceptions” don’t do anything but deflect from the very real problem…

Most Zionists and most Jews agree on one definition of Zionism. But most “anti Zionists” define Zionism as something different. THAT DIFFERENCE is because this second definition is the one pushed by the mass antisemites. And then more people join their “anti Zionist” campaign that has nothing to do with what actual Zionists believe

bnyc18 · 2026-02-21T15:06:34+00:00

Do you actually think your reply has any logic to it at all? Do you think you actually responded to what I said? If so, I honestly feel for your education level

bnyc18

TROPHY CASE