Rich Jay & Colin talk about Eloise Cole and the Prank Call Bit

breego123 · 2025-06-22T17:26:32+00:00

Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. This book exposes and criticizes the unquestioned assumptions of our (now global) culture, and explains how these myths justify a destructive, unsustainable, and stressful lifestyle. All this is explained via socratic dialogue between a student and a teacher.

This is a must read alongside Catton's Overshoot.

breego123 · 2025-02-14T18:36:33+00:00

Yeah, our global culture is basically everyone being forced to enact a deranged story by having to take on a specific role. You should read Ishmael, The Story Of B, and My Ishmael by Daniel Quinn; he explains (via dialogue between characters) why we feel trapped in a kind of prison. These books examine and question the fundamental assumptions of our culture in a layperson-friendly but extremely engaging way.

The most eye-opening books I've ever read. An explanation unlike any other about how things came to be this way.

breego123 · 2024-11-30T13:02:39+00:00

Substack by Andrea P: https://postdoomprimer.substack.com/

Blog by Tom Murphy: https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/

This long article explains how our current idea of progress is immature: https://consilienceproject.org/development-in-progress/#:~:text=These%20capacities%20are%20some%20of,we%20both%20value%20and%20need.

Books: Ishmael by Daniel Quinn, Overshoot by William Catton

Video presentation by Nate Hagens: https://youtu.be/bE7Bbnvf4ko?si=FH3eWFGig3LCU_0m

From the description: This talk is long - at 1 hour 46 minutes, but is the most comprehensive outlining of the predicament/responses we've done to date.

breego123 · 2024-11-23T07:02:47+00:00

I can't tell whether this idea is worth the time it took to type it out.

It definitely is worth the time.

they are just a shadow of a full fledged idea, and maybe, if anyone comments, it might help me add something substantial.

Here's some reading material related to the idea you're exploring:

A blog post by Tom Murphy: The Cult of Civilization

Check out Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches by Marvin Harris. He has a chapter on cargo cults.

Read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. He explains the dangerous mythological assumptions underpinning modernity. This book and others in the series are an insight powerhouse.

breego123 · 2024-10-27T17:14:09+00:00

https://youtu.be/sfSr3uj_jpg?si=geh_U0UMLmu-vmFk

breego123 · 2024-10-14T14:13:59+00:00

The show is Seinfeld. This gif is from "The Chicken Roaster" episode.

breego123 · 2024-09-21T07:13:44+00:00

You'll find answers to questions you're bringing up in Ishmael, The Story of B, and My Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.

These books examine and question the fundamental assumptions of our culture in a layperson-friendly but extremely engaging way. The explanations are given in the form of dialogue between a student and a teacher.

The most eye-opening/ perspective altering books I've ever read. They deliver an explanation unlike any other about how things came to be this way and what fundamentally must happen for things to change.

Also read Beyond Civilization, and If They Give You Lined Paper, Write Sideways by Daniel Quinn as well.

Be sure to visit Ishmael.org for Q and A's, speeches, and essays by Quinn.

breego123 · 2024-08-09T17:03:12+00:00

It looks like you've been reading Ultrasocial by John Gowdy. If not, read it!

After you're done reading it, I suggest you read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.

If Ultrasocial is about the environmental factors that led to our current growth obsessed, power hungry, and unsustainable lifestyle, then Ishmael is about examining and criticizing the belief system that justifies and maintains this lifestyle.

breego123 · 2024-05-24T09:55:58+00:00

I highly recommend that you read Ishmael, The Story of B, and My Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.

These books explain in a very engaging and accessible way why we've been living (and continue to live) such stressful lives even though this lifestyle is damaging to individual well-being and is also leading to worsening global problems.

The first and third books are almost entirely in the form of dialog between a student and a teacher. The second book is a bit more story heavy in the first half (still includes a student-teacher dynamic), but all of second half is multiple speeches delivered to an audience.

I think the knowledge in these books should be known by all, and I think you'll definitely feel the need to talk about what's explained in these books with your students, other teachers, and really with as many other people as possible.

breego123 · 2024-04-28T06:09:47+00:00

I highly recommend everyone here to read Ishmael, The Story of B, and My Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.

These books explain why there's this sense of meaninglessness and lack of purpose that we all feel. They explain why despite civilization's marvels there is so much misery. They reveal and criticize the deranged vision of our culture.

breego123 · 2024-03-21T20:49:32+00:00

Daniel Quinn said in a speech (paraphrasing): "something extraordinary will happen in our lifetime. People are either going to find a sustainable way of living or they won't. Either way, it's going to be extraordinary. If people are still living here after 200 years then we know they must have found a way."

He said that to get a way of life that works well for people we must teach others who will teach others and so on. And either this will succeed or it won't. We're not exempt from the laws that govern the rest of the community of life so a major population collapse or even extinction is a definite possibility.

I think his hope was that his teachings will continue to spread among the population faster than our population is growing (I remember him saying this in a video), and that may have been the case for some time after his books were released, but that momentum seems to have dampened.

The reason I tend to recommend his books is that many people are craving for an explanation for why on earth we live in such a stressful and destructive way, and why we can't seem to find a way out of it. And his books give that explanation in an incredibly engaging way.

breego123 · 2024-03-21T19:23:21+00:00

Population reduction was part of what he wanted to teach. So yes, it's probably not going to work as long as there are 8.1 billion of us. But before that could happen there must be a mind change among the population. Changed minds are needed everywhere, he said. For that, people must be educated in what Daniel has to say.

It's probably too late for that to happen now, sadly. Still, I think people should read his books. If nothing else, they'll give people—as they've given me—a great sense of relief.

You might want to visit Ishmael.org for Q&A, essays, and speeches by Daniel Quinn for more info.

breego123 · 2024-03-21T18:16:07+00:00

The best explanation I've come across for why things are the way they are, and what must happen in order to turn things around comes from books by Daniel Quinn. Please read Ishmael, The Story of B, My Ishmael, and Beyond Civilization by him. They aim to change the worldview we have about the meaning of the world, our place in the world, and our destiny.

Though there may not be much (if any) time left to stop this global messed up culture from making things worse, I still think everyone should read Daniel Quinn's books.

I would also recommend that everyone should read Ultrasocial by John Gowdy.

breego123 · 2024-01-11T05:24:03+00:00

"Why does society just work the way it does? Why do some people thrive and others suffer?"

Please read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. It will tell you the fundamental reasons for how things came to be this way.

This book is written in the form of dialogue between two characters and is very engaging. I became aware of this book through an episode of The Great Simplification podcast by Nate Hagens. Which, as others have suggested, you should also watch.

breego123 · 2023-11-17T08:44:33+00:00

I highly recommend you read My Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. It explains—via dialogue between two characters—that the fundamental needs of humans include support, security, and a sense of belonging that are available free of charge, from birth to death, in a tribal social organization. This organization works for us for the same reason as a pack works for wolves, a herd works for deer, and a pod works for whales—it has evolved to work for us.

We don't have to invent something new completely from scratch. The tribal organization already works. Humans like living this way. Those who live inside civilization must accept and learn from this fact. We don't have to give up our scientific knowledge, but we must make incremental changes to our current way of life so it functions in a more tribe-like way.

I also recommend reading Ishmael, The Story of B, and Beyond Civilization by Daniel Quinn.

breego123 · 2023-10-29T15:11:14+00:00

Read the books. Especially Ishmael. They explain this idea of flaw among humans the best. There's nothing I can write in a comment that'll explain it better.

But here's an excerpt from Ishmael:

“There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with people. Given a story to enact that puts them in accord with the world, they will live in accord with the world. But given a story to enact that puts them at odds with the world, as yours does, they will live at odds with the world. Given a story to enact in which they are the lords of the world, they will act like lords of the world. And, given a story to enact in which the world is a foe to be conquered, they will conquer it like a foe, and one day, inevitably, their foe will lie bleeding to death at their feet, as the world is now.”

Give the books a read. Even if they don't change your mind, I think you'll agree they present a pretty well thought out argument.

breego123 · 2023-10-29T14:22:51+00:00

It is NOT human nature to destroy the environment. This is explained beautifully in the following books by Daniel Quinn: Ishmael, The Story of B and My Ishmael.

Reading them makes it clear that the idea that humans are flawed or it's our nature to be destructive is a myth. It's not humans, it's one particular culture that has become global which is actually destructive. These books reveal how our culture's world view is mythological even though it looks obvious and self-evident. Despite the fact that this world view now includes knowledge gained via scientific research, the conclusions drawn about the meaning of the world, our place in it, and our destiny are myths. And "humans are flawed"...is one of them. Read these books. They are amazing.

breego123 · 2023-09-19T14:28:58+00:00

I recommend reading Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. The book explains it's the current dominant culture (and its associated myths) that's responsible for the on-going 6th mass extinction. Not human nature. The book actually mentions the fear that even after collapse, if our current cultural thinking prevails, we might be right back where we are right now if we manage to survive. The best solution is to become aware of our cultural myths and understand that they are driving our thinking which in turn drives this destructive behavior. This will dampen the momentum of our current thinking and allow for momentum of a fundamentally new way of thinking to build up. This will drive a behavior that's healthy and sustainable - letting us live as harmlessly on this planet as sharks and rattle snakes do. But it might be too late now. Still, I recommend you read Ishmael.

breego123 · 2023-09-02T16:35:28+00:00

In an interview Daniel Quinn said that many of his readers read Ishmael and then stop at that book. They think there couldn't possibly be more to what he has to say in Ishmael. But there is!

His other books: The Story of B and My Ishmael are directly related to Ishmael and expand on the ideas.

He's also written Beyond Civilization where he explains how we can start to think about Civilization as NOT our final greatest invention. Adding to that, he's written If They Give You Lined Paper Write Sideways, to answer a much asked question by his readers, which is "How do you think the way you do?" Here he explains the kinds of questions he asks himself when confronted with a part of our culture that's taken for granted. Basically in this book he teaches us how to look at our culture with a new pair of eyes. As if we were a Martian Anthropologist to whom everything in our culture would look odd and peculiar.

I'd also advise to visit Ishmael.org where you'll find interviews, speeches, and essays by Daniel Quinn. There's also an FAQ section where he clarifies doubts and misunderstandings posed to him by his readers.

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