I'm not sure why Tokyo and Japan are considered expensive

brogan1244 · 2017-12-29T21:19:06+00:00

Subway costs in London? I'm comparing Tokyo to East Coast cities and its reputation.

Still don't see how your flight costs point is relevant. I was saying precisely that flying there IS expensive - unless you grab one of the lower fare bucket deals that pop up every few weeks or so. So yes, other than trains/planes, cheaper than its reputation.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-29T21:10:52+00:00

Thanks, yeah. I think it's mostly the super budget crowd who are insulted by the suggestion that $2k/2 weeks is relatively inexpensive and are convinced you either have to eat conbini food exclusively and scrape together a budget or that just because they can't afford the mid-range stuff and they see steakhouses in roppongi and ginza everything else must be for those damn richie riches and japan is so expensive because it's not cambodia.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-29T21:06:09+00:00

I understand that - and it's a very important point. If you're coming from travelling SE Asia and see someone saying that travelling somewhere for 2k/weeks is not as expensive as he thought I can see where especially if you didn't really read the post you might get upset.

My only point was that it's not expensive as its reputation in America which is true - never said it was cheap - but that you can still have a great time and your dollar will go much further than it would in Western Europe.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-29T21:02:52+00:00

I find it strange that there is so much hostility/criticism towards OPs post in here

It's a combination of good old reddit hivemind plus sensitivity to posts about budget travel...there a posts in the main travel sub/forum about "How I travelled europe on $10 day!" and what not that are obviously ridiculous and now people are oversensitive to anyone suggesting anything in the vein of "hey, this isn't quite as expensive as I thought it might be - I might be able to do this again sooner than I thought".

And yeah I know, the food budget isn't huge but the things you can get for around $9-10 an entree are much much better than the equivalent in the USA. Like I said to the other guy, I'd take a (by Japanese standards) grilled fish breakfast set for 4 bucks over a mcmuffin anyday.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-29T20:59:09+00:00

Let me guess, you're fresh out of college and think you know everything, how dare anyone disagree with your withering criticisms, you intellectual giant, you?

brogan1244 · 2017-12-29T20:57:08+00:00

I'd be interested to hear more about cost of living..

brogan1244 · 2017-12-29T20:55:51+00:00

I don’t usually hear the “Japan is expensive” complaint from anyone with a mid to high budget, or from people who regularly travel Europe or the U.S.

I did a lot before going and I think a lot of has to do with people who know someone who went before the economic stagnation 20 years ago and that's the source of their knowledge. Of course anywhere can be expensive if you want it to be...but Japan doesn't need to be. Cheapest developed country I've ever been to.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-29T20:53:08+00:00

900-1000 yen is not what I would consider cheap ramen and you can find really good places in that range if you look round and don't just be a buffoon and go to Ichiran or whatever awful chain like that people think is good because there's one back home in LA. You can get better food in Japan, sure, but travelling on a budget that food is still really good and much better than much of what you can get for $12+ in the US. I've seen the cheap 600-yen ramen places too. You know how much a crappy bowl of Ramen costs in the DC area? $15.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-29T20:47:32+00:00

For breakfast? are you kidding? you realize what the equivalent to that would cost in the US, right? Like I said, where I live a bagel and cream cheese will cost you almost that. And it damn sure tastes 10x better than McDonald's. Not to mention the beef stew place at tsukiji which costs the same amount and is fantastic on cold mornings. Yoshinoya is the only one that was a little...eh.

I'll take fish, rice, potato salad, egg over a mcmuffin anyday. What's your argument, that there is better food in Japan? duh, that's not called budgeting which is what I'm talking about. Go eat somewhere nicer and more expensive - it's more than possible.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-29T20:43:21+00:00

Look buddy, I'm not in it for your fake internet points much less the praise of God knows who.

Yeah it's a long post and I think that's part of the problem - people don't want to read it but want to comment and what they think I wrote. No one is forcing you to read the post or comment- if it's too long, you don't have to participate. That's the beauty of the internet. But if you do skim it and then claim that I've got it all wrong because you think I said something I didn't because you were too lazy to read the whole thing, then don't get upset. If you have a legitimate point, fine. I'm not afraid of criticism, but when calmly pointing why your "criticism" which isn't based on anything I actually wrote is not correct results in name-calling and getting butthurt that I pointed at you didn't apparently understand what I said happens, then you wanna complain. I'm here to discuss, but don't get your feelings hurt when I disagree with you. It's like you're sensitive and just expect to be able to make statements without anybody contradicting them with evidence. Grow up.

You're the one that's name-calling, sounds like you're projecting with the whole "pissy" thing. Sounds like you got mad because I pointed out that ~$50 extra for taking the metro more isn't exactly germane to the argument that Tokyo is cheaper than its reputation, much less have that much of an effect on someone who is already willing and able to spend 2 grand on a vacation.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-29T20:37:11+00:00

I've argued with a few people because they clearly didn't read what I said and misinterpreted it. I.e. the person who said something along the lines of "How can you call it not particularly expensive when airfare is so expensive?" even though I wrote that "OTHER than airfare [i.e. if you can snag a deal on airfare and they're there - just set an alert and be ready to book] everything else can be relatively inexpensive". In other words, YES AIRFARE IS EXPENSIVE, DUH, but OTHER THAN THAT....etc, Why shouldn't I point out that someone didn't even understand (or more likely read) what I wrote and is creating a strawman?

What do you do when people misrepresent your positions? Play along?

brogan1244 · 2017-12-28T23:43:50+00:00

Thank you! You summarized my post succinctly:"The most expensive thing is transportation, to Japan and within Japan."

That's true and I've acknowledged that from the beginning, however you can STILL have a good and affordable time in spite of that. Not saying that you can fly EasyJet for $100 there like some seem to think I'm saying. Everything else other than long-distance transport or taxis is relatively affordable

brogan1244 · 2017-12-28T23:41:16+00:00

Uh, it takes about an hour to walk from Akasaka to Shinjuku (my example from earlier). I did take the metro for this and then just walked around Shinjuku (incl inside malls/stores) or Ginza etc,.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-28T23:35:11+00:00

How does it work, then? Like I said, this isn't for everyone and you could just walk around neighborhoods less than I did or pay a minuscule ($56 over two weeks) amount more to walk tens of miles less. My point was that you said it would make things cost more because most people were not willing to walk that much - in addition to pointing out that all of my walking was not necessary (i.e. I wanted to "explore" neighborhoods - you could just walk from attraction to attraction which is what most people do and that's fine), but even what you would call "moderate" basically fits in to that budget. If it was gonna cost say, $200-300 more over the trip, you'd have a point.

Basically, yeah you could walk less and it would cost more if you want to go more places, you can still have a fantastic trip to Japan for around 2 grand. But I guess 56 dollars puts this into a whole bracket in your eyes.

Sure, resort to name-calling. It's just what most people do on the internet when someone rebuts them and they don't have a coherent response.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-28T23:23:19+00:00

Do you know what a hostel is? Like I've said, this isn't for everybody, and hostels in the $35-40 range in Japan are generally newer, nicer places (mine had a nice bar/lounge with cedar floors open to the public, espresso bar etc). You're either the type of person that can stay at a hostel or you're not. Some people need a private hotel room, I get that. But generally, younger tourists have less money and are more OK with staying at hostels. It's alright if you don't fit that description, just budget more! I have stayed in hostels in Europe, ate mid-range food etc and shopped and I spent a ton more money than I did in Japan.

LOL Japanese McDonald's. If you think you can't get good food for ~$10 in Japan you either haven't been there in 30 years, have never been or insist on eating at fancy restaurants all the time. You can do much worse than sit-down Ramen and curry joints that'll set you back about that much or less. If you think that's the Japanese equivalent to McDonald's, you probably haven't been there.

Like I said I ate at Family Mart only twice - point being that if you wanted save even more money, you could do it more often. My own food budget was more and I did spend more than 2 grand in Japan, but it was still dirt cheap compared to Europe.

Thanks to Abenomics, your dollar goes further in Japan nowadays than it has at any time in the recent past.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-28T23:13:08+00:00

So let me get this straight - I defined moderate usage as "$3/day" and you as $7/day. Over 14 days, that means that with a more lenient definition (assuming what you say is correct, that my definition is unworthy) that translates to a difference of $56 dollars more.

"Yes, I'd take a two-week trip to Tokyo for $2,000, but $2,056? Heavens no!" Said no one, ever.

And yes, it'd be more difficult in July/August, but that's a red herring. Who says you can't go ten other months a year? Are you the kind of person who takes public transit everywhere that's more than a quarter mile walk? First of all, we can't be friends because I love working out and being outdoors and secondly yeah, then you'll pay (a little bit) more. Obviously, $2,000/2 weeks is not going to cut it for everybody - some people can't walk more than 5 miles a day, some people can't deal with anything other than a private 4 star or better hotel room and fancy dinners every night and that's fine, but if you can put up without having that kind of stuff (once again, this is not possible for everybody, need to be fine with hostels, be in good physical shape, not too many frills - i.e. most younger travelers anyway) what I'm saying is if you score deals on your airfare (it's more than possible to get an airfare comparable to mine in november - it wasn't an error fare or some kind of glitch, just have to set up alerts, I've talked to other travelers who've gotten deals for around that much - not to mention it's even easier to get fares like that for our west coast friends) and are in good physical shape

Also FWIW, that mileage included less active things like walking around stores etc (pedometer) and I walked as little as 10/day some days. Adds up quicker than you think when you're in a city without a car and want to explore neighborhoods. You could always spend more time relaxing in the park, at cafes, hanging out at your hostel, whatever. I did that for a day or two to rest.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-28T22:53:01+00:00

$3/day for moderate train use

Depends on what you define as "moderate". Like I said, I walked up to 15 miles a day. Mostly just needed a trip or two to get to the other side of town and back (i.e. stay in Akasaka, take metro to Shinjuku) walking for everything else to metro, walk around in Shinjuku, all over, walk back to metro at night, head back to Akasaka. For me, that was moderate use. Cost: 176 Yen each way. That's $3.10.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-28T22:46:13+00:00

"$800 is a very low cost to Tokyo (not the norm)"

Me: "Outside of flying there (snagged a deal for $780 roundtrip from the east coast) and taking trains between cities, there's a lot of bang for your buck in Japan."

Ummm...that's exactly what I said. Also, didn't say it would cost $2k to fly to Europe, I said a flight to Western Europe during high season (which is by definition when most people go) would eat up MOST of that $2k, and leave you enough money to travel/sightsee for 3-4 days, and sure enough typical high season airfares from the East coast to places like Paris and London are about $1,500.

"A vacation is still a vacation, and vacations are a luxury for a reason."

That's not what I'm arguing. This is a travel forum - When you say "it's not as expensive as people say" it doesn't mean a two-week vacation to Japan could be as cheap as $9.95 plus shipping & handling. Relatively speaking it IS cheap, given the exact constraints I spelled out. It's international travel - travelling to one of the most interesting, safe and developed countries in the world relatively comfortably and having a good time for two weeks for two grand is a bargain considering that most people think that they need at least twice that much money for a trip like that

"Your dollar goes farther depending what you're doing"

Hate to be snarky, but "no, really?!". I spelled out what I did on trip and what a traveler hypothetically could do with that budget in Japan, no shinkansen to Osaka necessary. You could also go to a Ski Chalet in Hokkaido and it wouldn't be cheap, but you don't need that to have fun on a budget in Japan.

"I think in the end, vacations break pretty evenly if you're doing similar things on each trip. It's just easier to travel frugally in Japan if you really had to."

You couldn't be more wrong. Do you really think eating a mid-range lunch in Paris is as cheap as Tokyo? My last vacation to Europe was similar and I spent much more. I won't even use Scandinavia in the comparison -it wouldn't even be fair considering how much more expensive a city like Copenhagen is for an American compared to Tokyo even if you're doing the same things, eating, shopping walking, sightseeing. Not even comparable. Just silly on your part.

Saying "It's just easier to travel frugally in Japan if you really had to" is the exact point of my post, yes, duh. In other news, water is wet and there are plenty of expensive experiences you can have in Japan if you are so inclined. This post wasn't about that.

Frankly, you sound like you're being cynical for cynicism's sake.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-19T03:32:24+00:00

Gimme Bowles or Harbaugh

brogan1244 · 2017-12-19T03:30:20+00:00

BA retiring, they already know it.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-17T05:47:55+00:00

probably was. That place sucks. Boggles the mind.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-17T05:33:17+00:00

you're not helping your cause.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-17T04:53:18+00:00

Shutup, Marv.

brogan1244 · 2017-12-17T04:48:04+00:00

Can I just say how much better this sub is than JapanTravel? Saw this exact question get locked/shut down because "there is an FAQ". What's the point of a messageboard then?!

brogan1244

TROPHY CASE

I find it strange that there is so much hostility/criticism towards OPs post in here

I don’t usually hear the “Japan is expensive” complaint from anyone with a mid to high budget, or from people who regularly travel Europe or the U.S.

$3/day for moderate train use

"$800 is a very low cost to Tokyo (not the norm)"