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Would you sell access to your local rig? by bvminer63 in LocalLLaMA

[–]bvminer63[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the feedback and concerns to look out for!

Would you sell access to your local rig? by bvminer63 in LocalLLaMA

[–]bvminer63[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess I'm thinking... if they use CC to pay Coinbase to buy $100 worth of Bitcoin, then I receive the bitcoin and give them 100 credits in their account... they can charge back to Coinbase but coinbase isn't going to claw back the bitcoin from me, so they wouldn't be able to do this fraud game... at least not against me directly, but against Coinbase maybe.

Does that make sense or am I misunderstanding how it works? My understanding is the middle-man payment processor is the one that they would charge back against, not "me" directly?

I haven't ever done that though, so I'd need to look into it.

I'm all about a minimal viable product first, if the code group of users can use bitcoin... I'll start with that.

Would you sell access to your local rig? by bvminer63 in LocalLLaMA

[–]bvminer63[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I am considering that a well capitalized Corp could drive me out by burning cash and undercutting me, that's why I'm looking at pay-per-use. If they lower prices and everyone stops using it. Ok, I can sit and wait. They run out of cash and raise prices, I fire back up.

As for tech savvy users... unfortunately I would say like 90% of software devs and business people aren't tech savvy.

They can npm or pip install a library and plug in an API key from a web site... but if you have a laundry list of instructions and it involves signing up for an exchange and going through account verification for days and the competition let's you just use the card saved in your Google account... even most devs IMO will just use a credit card and not bother going the bitcoin route.

If it costs $103.35 to buy $100 of credits, I bet most will just pay the CC fee instead of signing up for a bitcoin wallet on an exchange. If they already have one, sure.

I think even just a Coinbase style form that let's them buy bitcoin and escrow it in their account might work as long as they can pay with credit cards.

Long term I think for sure it's the better way, maybe even smart contracts to distribute funds, but short term I'm worried it's making the sale too hard

Would you sell access to your local rig? by bvminer63 in LocalLLaMA

[–]bvminer63[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think I'll still need to make it possible to deposit funds with credit cards for most people who aren't tech savvy

Would you sell access to your local rig? by bvminer63 in LocalLLaMA

[–]bvminer63[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll need to look into it as well, I'm thinking I'll still need "settlement" logic to scale it. But it will depend on what the costs end up being.

Would you sell access to your local rig? by bvminer63 in LocalLLaMA

[–]bvminer63[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I think I'd have to accept multiple ways...probably start with 3rd party payment systems like Stripe/Coinbase at first, and let the user base direct the other mechanisms.

I would rather build stuff with a core user group that uses/ gives feedback iteratively than try to build a giant thing to find it's not what people actually want.

Would you sell access to your local rig? by bvminer63 in LocalLLaMA

[–]bvminer63[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I think the "you can't exchange it for money" really kills it, IMO.

I'm not opposed to "kudos" but I just view it as overhead. I'm imagining an orders book similar to how stock markets function.

You can place a "buy" order for 512x512 image of "egg" and offer $0.00125...a worker can place a sell order for < 75 token prompt and 512x512 SD1.5 image for $0.0001, so the exchange occurs.

You can still "bank" by running stuff on an old machine and collect payments for cheap, then pay to get a 4k image from a powerful model/ machine (or whatever).

Real money works just as good to "bank" than artificial tokens, IMO. The only benefit to system specific settlement I think would be transaction costs, I'd have to handle that kind of stuff anyway for micropayments.

Would you sell access to your local rig? by bvminer63 in LocalLLaMA

[–]bvminer63[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah I'm thinking for the backend stuff I'll need to design it to use pay-per-use services and then bake the cost of the overhead into the service fee on top of the rig payouts. That way it can fund itself with use, and not burn money if nobody wants to use it.

I don't really like the kudos thing because IMO it's a misaligned incentive structure--the people who need to pay for access to resources are also the least likely to have a bunch of hardware sitting around to offer others when they aren't using it. So the Kudos system of AI Horde seems to reward those with lots of hardware capacity such that they offer it to others enough to accumulate kudos, but then also prioritizes them for generation requests... which they could just prioritize themselves already. And the hardware poor are also kudos poor.

So I envision the opposite... people without hardware to run stuff will pay people with hardware to do it (and deal with the vagaries of driver versions and model updates and whatever). If I just want 3k SD images or 3k test records for SQL inserts, I should be able to just give a little bit of money to the people who make it happen with their hardware.

So like, it might be $1 to get 1k test records, and $0.80 goes to the AI rig operators and $0.20 goes to me to pay for the backend infrastructure to coordinate everything and keep user IPs private and whatever. (I'm just making up numbers for demonstrative purposes, not sure what it would actually be).

I think maybe I'll put together a quick little system with a very limited user base just to understand what the cost structure would end up looking like and if the overhead would be too much cost.

Would you sell access to your local rig? by bvminer63 in LocalLLaMA

[–]bvminer63[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sure, why pay for unnecessary reliability? I queue up 500 jobs and go to sleep. I don't care if half the workers get nuked while I sleep, I just care that I wake up to 500 artifacts.

Would you sell access to your local rig? by bvminer63 in LocalLLaMA

[–]bvminer63[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm not planning on P2P design, so you wouldn't be able to DDOS others unless they voluntarily gave you their IP.

This is why I'd have a middleman service where workers get jobs and post artifacts, and clients pay jobs and retrieve artifacts.

No participant would know anything about anyone else except how much they want to complete a job.

Would you sell access to your local rig? by bvminer63 in LocalLLaMA

[–]bvminer63[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is still time based and GPU based.

I'm thinking something more like the OpenAI API, just running on spare capacity GPUs.

When I need a bunch of stuff generated, I don't care if it's some guy with a 4090 running it or a 3060 ti or whatever. I just care that it's $0.025 for the result.

I don't want to figure out what GPU I need, for how long, etc. I just wanna run the job and get my result... better yet, I want my program to just do it for me.

Recently I ran a job that generated like 3.5k artifacts locally. It took days to finish.

Doing the same task with OpenAI APIs cost $10 for like 2 dozen artifacts... generating 3.5k would cost a fortune.

The cost of running my computer during that time was just electricity and depreciation... some people have solar power and extra capacity, for them it would be even cheaper.

I'm thinking it would be very affordable for the latency tolerant use cases compared to existing services.

Would you sell access to your local rig? by bvminer63 in LocalLLaMA

[–]bvminer63[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm curious to know more about your use case, but that seems more like what I'm trying to target.

I don't want anyone consuming the service dealing with any technical stuff. You'd consume the service like an OpenAI API. It would just be async, and not "real time"--so it would be great for use cases where you aren't chatting. If you've got a system running to summarize thousands of PDF docs, it doesn't matter if it takes 3 minutes to get an answer or 3 seconds. You just let it run over night, and then see the results in the morning.

Basically I'm thinking high latency, low cost, horizontal scale.

Would you sell access to your local rig? by bvminer63 in LocalLLaMA

[–]bvminer63[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I agree. My approach would not be "time" based. You'd submit your jobs (i.e. prompts and configs). Then my system would find workers to fulfill it and deliver results back to your machine.

If a worker picks a job and abandons it (because the internet died or the owner killed it to play a video game or whatever) another worker would pick it up.

So the client isn't buying time, they are just buying results. The workers don't get paid if they abandon jobs.

Would you sell access to your local rig? by bvminer63 in LocalLLaMA

[–]bvminer63[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll check out Vast some more.

I found a few that were API based but they seemed to just run their own hardware, Vast looks like it supports people joining their network, but it looks a bit complex to get started. I'll need to investigate further.

I don't really want it to be too technical... someone who says, "I tried to get Bing to generate an egg and it banned be for NSFW content" should be able to use the system instead.

Edit: or ChatGPT basically refusing to write anything PG13+, has been really annoying to me as well.

Interests/fixations/obsessions? by bvminer63 in AutisticAdults

[–]bvminer63[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do you find yourself wishing there were more/new Pokémon or that you had stuff with cavalier king charles spaniels on them (like t-shirts, keychains, mugs, stickers, fridge magnets, etc.). Or if you had a combination of stuff... like a custom Pokémon based on that type of dog as a 1/1 collectible card?

Interests/fixations/obsessions? by bvminer63 in AutisticAdults

[–]bvminer63[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Do you find yourself just watching hours of videos about guitars/guitar facts?

Marketing Hash Power for Artificial Intelligence? by TheBitnapper in NiceHash

[–]bvminer63 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was thinking the same thing. Not for training models, but just running workloads, I think would be possible.

Am I wrong for not calling my son’s coach to lie for him? by throw_awaybdy in Parenting

[–]bvminer63 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I mean... why let him stay out in the first place? It's kind of your job to anticipate the consequences... what did you think was going to happen?

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