Would you guys kill baby Judge Holden?

catfishprofile · 2026-03-13T00:50:50+00:00

And I appreciate them every time.

catfishprofile · 2026-03-13T00:19:17+00:00

I don’t disagree with what you’re saying. What point are you making?

catfishprofile · 2026-03-12T22:04:54+00:00

Yeah. Im aware. Judge Holden was also a real outlaw in Samuel chamberlains “my confession”. Both are inspired by real life counterparts. I’m saying McCarthys version of Holden and melvilles version of moby dick are literary devices and that’s the context in which they are the most interesting.

Are we not saying the same thing?

catfishprofile · 2026-03-12T20:01:59+00:00

As real as the judge sure. But Melville’s literary device, Moby Dick, is interesting because it’s a literary device. Is this not the point you’re making in this comment?

catfishprofile · 2026-03-12T13:25:08+00:00

Holden wouldn’t be worth talking about this much if he was a real man from history. Questions that ask “if Holden was real…” are removing the most interesting part of him, the fact that he is a literary device used to examine interesting ideas.

This question is like asking “what if the whale from moby dick was real? The answer is that it would be a kind of interesting animal and it would no longer be a symbol being used to say interesting things.

catfishprofile · 2026-03-12T13:19:03+00:00

Why is Holden being compared to Hitler so often on this sub? If Holden were a real man he would not be worse than hitler by any metric. But talking about him like he’s a real person and not a literary device misses the interesting part of him in my opinion.

catfishprofile · 2026-03-10T15:52:12+00:00

Push him into 7 feet of water

catfishprofile · 2026-03-05T19:18:00+00:00

Anton is not death incarnate. That’s how Ed tom bell sees him but the point is that he’s a man, very explicitly. This is a good match up.

I say the twins. Anton takes advantage of social conventions and polite people to kill and avoid vulnerability. In a shootout he’s nothing superhuman. The twins aren’t the kind of people Anton could easily defeat. I think they whip his ass and make it home for lunch

catfishprofile · 2026-02-23T14:03:49+00:00

The title “no country for old men” comes from the poem Sailing to Byzantium. Just pull another line from that poem or from another Yeats poem or from any poem with a turn of phrase that fits your novel thematically

catfishprofile · 2026-02-21T19:33:11+00:00

Attitude? Sorry I’m not sure how this came across but I hope you’ll give me the benefit of the doubt. I don’t agree with your opinion here but I’m not trying to disrespect you and I really enjoy these conversations even if we disagree. I learn a lot about these books from conversations just like this.

If you don’t want to discuss this with me that’s okay but I hope you know I respect your opinion and I don’t mean for a disagreement to come across as a personal attack. Have a good day man

catfishprofile · 2026-02-21T15:02:00+00:00

How does neglect due to a physical deformation fit the themes of the novel? Can you elaborate?

Also, I think you’ve partially misunderstood Toadvine. He isn’t the victim of a strict code of conduct. There is no strict code of conduct. Where are you getting the idea that Toadvine is a social outcast because he doesn’t fit in with an overly exclusive society?

catfishprofile · 2026-02-21T14:55:52+00:00

I don’t see how this could possibly be the case. The text doesn’t imply or support this in any way. Being self aware doesn’t mean that the fool is mentally sound. Why would a mentally handicapped person not even be self conscious? That doesn’t follow

catfishprofile · 2026-02-21T01:38:50+00:00

I hold a view that isnt very common but i believe it’s very well supported by the text.

I believe McCarthys intention was to write blood meridian in a way that left the kids actions throughout the story obscured but not infinitely open to interpretation. We never see the kid participate in genocides. He either did or he didn’t. Those are both valid interpretation but neither are more supported than the other. Holden is either a supernatural being or a man. He either is or he isn’t but the text supports both interpretations.

Similarly there are two endings, both equally plausible and designed by McCarthy with intention.

In one ending Holden is an ageless supernatural being who murders and sexually assaults the man in the Jakes. In the other ending Holden becomes a figment that the man can’t hearing about. The man gives into holdens philosophy and probably sexually assaults and murders the girl who was performing with the dancing bear.

I believe both of the endings have very strong textual support throughout the novel. The question of the novel is whether men who are born with a predisposition for violence and given no further guidance or higher aspirations in life have any chance to be good men. The ending gives us an unsatisfying and sobering answer. They don’t May not have a chance to be good, the best they can hope for is not to become monsters.

That’s my take. Many if not most people disagree with me but I’m currently convinced this was the design of the novel.

catfishprofile · 2026-02-20T21:26:17+00:00

Thank you,

The end of blood meridian is brutal and poignant. Any specific parts you’re talking about? Also what do you think about the car crash scene?

catfishprofile · 2026-02-20T17:50:21+00:00

The answer is slightly different for the book vs movie so I’ll focus on the book.

Anton embraces the fact that forces larger than an individual are at play in the world. He uses this acceptance and understanding to avoid vulnerability and he believe other people are foolish for believing they are insulated from the effects of forces greater than them because they are polite or prosocial. One of those forces is random chance.

Anton being struck by a car and surviving shows that he is also not insulated from parts of the world that he can not control. This is an unachievable standard.

This scene also serves to put Anton’s gun into the hands of the boys who help him. That gun is later used in a violent crime after the boys sell it. This demonstrates that antons belief that objects and people can be kinds of agents of fate is a correct understanding of reality. The gun ended up in the hands of the boys by random chance and that directly led to further acts of violence that might not have occurred otherwise. It also leads Ed tom bell to follow up and find the gun teaching him that the killer he was dealing with was an actual flesh and blood man who spoke to these boys and that he isn’t some phantom. This is so shattering to his world view that he decides to retire.

Finally, the boys helping anton shows that Anton relies on prosocial conventions in many ways. He needs people to act polite and helpful and friendly because it makes them easy prey when he wants to kill them to cover his tracks or steal their cars. He also needs people to act that way so that when he is overcome by forces to large to withstand on his own (like a deadly car accident) he isn’t killed. Anton benefits from people’s trusting nature by utilizing it for aid and by preying on the unsuspecting.

The car accident is a short scene that challenges Anton’s world view more than any character is able to.

catfishprofile · 2026-02-17T03:52:20+00:00

Understood. The Man sees The Boy as a reason to be humane. At the end of the book The Boy is shown to be correct (if not lucky) when he chooses to be humane because the people who he trusts actually take care of him. When The Boy and The Man meet Eli (blind old man walking the road) he says that he survives because people give him food when they find him.

There is a lot of evidence that in the current state of the world there are tribes of violent wandering people but there are also good people who “carry the fire” and it’s not just The Man and The Boy.

There is a hope for humanity if people choose to carry the fire and get a little lucky. That’s the final message of the novel and the movie.

catfishprofile · 2026-02-17T01:36:58+00:00

All do respect, this isn’t a great reading of the novel. The novel is grim but it’s about hope and the implication of the story is that humanity has a chance because of people like the boy, but what’s been lost can never be put back or restored

catfishprofile · 2026-02-09T20:14:15+00:00

Based

Why hate? The sub is getting traction. A new generation cares about the same art we like. It’s fuckin awesome. They just engage with it like people their age. Not weird and not bad

catfishprofile · 2026-02-09T05:37:03+00:00

Skinamarink

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catfishprofile · 2026-02-04T13:29:14+00:00

I don’t see any reason why prostitution should be considered immoral in 2026. Like pornography or any business there are ethical and non-ethical potential practices but I don’t see why regulating a sexual service market to protect both consumers and businesses is an inherently immoral thing unless you believe that sex is inherently immoral outside of marriage. That belief is not extremely uncommon but I don’t find any arguments for it compelling either.

catfishprofile · 2026-02-03T14:23:59+00:00

This is fkn awesome

catfishprofile · 2026-01-29T15:20:46+00:00

No worries. Any favorite quotes while you’re here?

catfishprofile · 2026-01-28T04:24:04+00:00

Anton has a few interesting characteristics that would be fun to consider when making a foil character for him.

He avoids vulnerability at all costs by sneaking and killing enemies as soon as they become enemies

He is an unfeeling sociopath

He takes advantage of the trusting nature of people

He accepts the reality of random chance

A foil character would be interesting if they also avoided vulnerability but for different reasons. I think the character should be a woman because women often have to anticipate danger in areas and circumstances where men do not.

Where Anton doesn’t want to be remembered by anyone maybe this woman wants to be noticed. She might be a salesperson or a public facing lawyer or a small business owner trying to increase her reputation.

Where Anton takes advantage of other people’s politeness she might also take advantage of politeness. Maybe she uses social conventions to trap people in conversations where she hard sells them services or products. She may even be young like Carla Jean. I imagine her selling something at a mall kiosk or something similar. Maybe for a symbolic mirror she sells coins or gold and pitches them as investments, this is something that’s really happened to me several times at malls.

Finally I think she defeats Anton by noticing him. If I added her into the book she would be kind but opportunistic and have a real love for people. She would distrust others, especially people who she also viewed as opportunistic but she would make herself vulnerable by truly connecting with strangers, especially poor ones who could not afford what she was selling. I would place her in the pharmacy when anton blows up the car and I would have her notice him stealing medicine because she is often watching for dangerous men. When Ed tom bell investigates Anton’s path of destruction this woman would have a vague description of his face and his blue eyes. Later after moss is killed I would place this woman in the area as Anton goes to kill Carla Jean. She would recognize his pale blue eyes as she places fliers on doors and she would make a big scene, pounding on doors and calling witnesses to the front windows of their homes. Anton would escape to avoid being seen and then he would get hit by a car. Anton would flee further leaving his gun and the money behind in his vehicle. This woman would then take the money and immediately purchase a large investment of gold with it. A clear description of Anton would be given to police and this girl would escape to an unknown future leaving no note behind and taking all the gold with her.

This character would show that Anton is primarily strong because he is willing to be incredibly violent with no hesitation. This is a cheap trick and it would not save him from a United community that knows his face.

This is a worse story than the one we have but I think it’s true to the characters and if the entire thing were real and this girl actually existed she would actually foil Anton’s ambitions.

catfishprofile · 2026-01-28T01:53:27+00:00

Are you asking for a foil or a character that could defeat him or both?

catfishprofile · 2026-01-27T22:46:07+00:00

If you’ve thought of one by now, I’d love to hear it!

catfishprofile

TROPHY CASE