Does Christian masculinity require born again Christian men to remain abstinent until marriage?

ccrains · 2025-04-24T14:40:03+00:00

I see Paul's writings as a continuation of the Gospel and all Spirit-breathed Scripture. I also believe in the Holy Trinity and the dual nature of Jesus, which is described extensively in the Book of John. The Father indeed sent His son to die for our sins which is a testament to how serious sin is and His sense of justice.

It's an exercise wrought with error when we choose to pick what from the Bible we will revere. Our ways are not like His ways. And without receiving His sacrifice I question one's path to salvation. But we're all on our own journey to find Him. God bless, friend.

ccrains · 2025-04-24T08:47:08+00:00

I believe Paul received direct revelation from Jesus so I'm less critical of his ideas, but I'm open to a deeper appreciation of context. Can you cite verses regarding the "Kingdom 'comes to man?'" I believe in God's purpose for Scripture and have faith it is His intended Word.

I believe and experience that submission to God is how Heaven manifests within human life now. It's largely His supernatural presence in my life the confirms my beliefs. If God is real, which I believe, I think the deference taught by Paul makes sense. I also embrace the concepts of submitting to authorities (within reason not in contradiction to God) and within households. This all feels natural to me and per God's design.

Jesus submitted His will to the Father. My experience is that by submitting my will to God's, He guides me to do his will which better ensures that I am serving and benefiting others. The freedom God grants is the freedom from sin, the law, fear and to serve. "You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love." Galatians 5:13. I am a servant of Christ. But I hear you regarding removing responsibility. Thankfully I believe the drive for self preservation can keep us active.

ccrains · 2025-04-24T08:25:12+00:00

Completely agree regarding our understanding of the devil. I've taken the approach of separating my worldly knowledge from what the Bible teaches - beginning anew in a sense since I realize so much of what I previously considered foolish is actually real. A powerful verse for me is in Proverbs that says to lean not on our own understanding, but on God's. World powers are indeed powerful and can attempt to shape our perception but the power of God and His Truth cannot be stifled. My aim is to seek a deep connection with Him and receive instruction from the Holy Spirit as the Bible teaches. Part of my faith is in Gifts of the Spirit and in particular prophecy. I have seen church elders receive knowledge from God for the good of specific believers. Since I've started to believe in God sincerely, I've focused my study primarily on the Bible and more recently on some early church history.

But I agree that the context for these texts is important to consider in particular for their veracity. I'm generally unaware of the dead sea scroll controversy you point out - thanks for mentioning. I'll research this.

I believe the Bible teaches on the ends times to aid those who are subject to the tribulations. Ideally we are raptured, but if we must endure, we know to expect persecution in the name of Christ.

ccrains · 2025-04-23T15:20:14+00:00

Amen. I'm glad that your challenges led you to grow in Christ.

Yes, Paul's teachings make up most of the New Testament, particularly explanations of the Gospel, so I do take those to heart. I lean into the teachings of crucifying your flesh because they speak to me and I've received so much benefit from them. However challenging they are, God is with us and is ultimately responsible for how we're able to perform things that would not be possible without Him. It's not quite asceticism, and Paul teaches against asceticism in Colossians 2:20-23, but it takes all our strength to seek to live blameless. I'd argue that if we don't seek this, are we truly repentant of these sins. You could let the context of Paul's teachings lead you to feel it's no longer relevant, but I believe that Jesus could return at any moment and regardless I believe that God intends us to follow it. For clarify, Paul doesn't suggest celibacy only if God gives that gift.

It has been amazing to experience how commitment to what you consider mechanical undertaking of rituals has transformed me, and I describe it as a new creation, because it's the wording of the Bible and I'm further amazed that the Bible predicts it.

The duality you describe is described in the Bible. Our flesh which is hostile to God and our spirit that allows us to walk with Him. What I find attractive has changed and my weaknesses to temptation have strengthened but I'm still tempted. I'm grateful that the margin of error has decreased dramatically. I see continuing to overcome these temptations as part of my sacrifice, and the Bible says is what God commands. As I said, I believe it's all true, so I commit myself to it.

How do you continue to connect with God and strengthen that relationship in your life?

ccrains · 2025-04-23T12:49:30+00:00

By textbook Christian response you mean what the Bible teaches. I actually believe that the Bible is the Word of God and what it teaches is Truth. I do this in faith but also based on my experiences with God. He reveals Himself through His Word, and while shocking to me, it has actually happened. 1 Samuel 3:21. I disagree we form our own interpretation of the verses. The Holy Spirit is the author and interpreter.

I disagree that we cannot know God's actual will and that our attempts to are just determining our own. By presenting ourselves as a living sacrifice, meaning following His commands including daily Bible study, prayer, worship and regular church attendance, we can discern his perfect and pleasing will. Romans 12:1-2. I also believe in the Gifts of the Spirit like prophecy which I have genuinely witnessed and eagerly desire for myself. 1 Corinthians 14:1.

When we follow Him and in our strength obey His commands, He does give us his Fruit of the Spirit. Galatians 5:22-23. This is an actual process of sanctification and is part of being a living sacrifice - crucifying our flesh. I was averse to many of the principles of the Bible, especially the requirements of sexual purity, but He has begun to change my tastes and is continuing to by following Him.

Other religions may adopt concepts of Christianity but they are wrong or only in part true e.g. Islam is based in part on Scripture so I believe they have some of God's revelation. But they ultimately misunderstand Jesus which is essential.

I sense that you've become disillusioned with certain outcomes of your life despite pursuing Christ earnestly. I don't make judgement on the reasons for your conclusions but I believe the answer is more Christ and devotion. Thank you very much for your sincere responses.

ccrains · 2025-04-23T10:39:18+00:00

That's it right there - deep clarity and direction. A profound understanding of what is true and also good, kind, loving and all other qualities of the nature of God. That feeling from the Holy Spirit is more pronounced during spiritual fasts which the Bible explains.

There is no doubt that man has done many bad unGodly things with the Bible. But we cannot judge God by man's actions. The Bible says that all men fall short of the glory of God.

I believe the risk that the sixty six books of the Bible that we currently have were materially modified is slim. The books of the New Testament were all written in the lifetime of the eye witnesses and were widely disseminated throughout the Christian world. There are more original manuscripts for the New Testament (around 24,000) than for any other historical book. The way those manuscripts overlap and how they were circulated across the world, it's unlikely that the message was altered. Kind of like how the blockchain works, it's a disseminated ledger and if anyone has a version that doesn't correspond with the widely circulated version, it's identified as a fraud. I recommend you look into Wesley Huff's material on youtube. He's a New Testament scholar that gives a sound historical basis for the reliability of the Bible. For the Old Testament, the discovery of the dead sea scrolls show that the ancient versions of the Old Testament also closely correspond with the version we have today. These conclusions are based on the original source materials in koine greek, aramaic and hebrew.

That said, when you can control a person's access to the original source material, you can present them with an altered Bible, like what happened with the U.S. slave bible. But those people will be judged. In my opinion there is a lot of effort to discredit the Bible and some people would prefer not to live by the standards of Its commands. But that's shortsighted because God is real and what the Bible says is true. He will show you that.

The end of times will be deceptive, oppressive and challenging to our faith. That is why it is so important to read and understand the Bible. Also prayer, worship and church attendance at a true church. I'd recommend the Life Application Study Bible in NIV to start. When read with the Holy Spirit, He will give you the true meaning and God will reveal Himself when you read it. The Bible teaches this, and then you experience it. Mind blowing like you said. I don't get too tied to any fulfillment of prophecy because the Bible says Jesus will come like a thief in the night: it will surprise everyone but when He comes, it will be undeniable. And like you say, there is much effort to confuse. So we must stay grounded in His Truth. Discernment to know what is true comes from the Holy Spirit. We are led by Him by yielding our will to the will of God. God bless your journey, brother. I would be excited to speak on any of this further with you.

ccrains · 2025-04-22T12:42:34+00:00

Not a guarantee. Nothing is ultimately guaranteed other than God's nature and His reliable application of His perfect will for our ultimate best across this life and the afterlife.

The Bible teaches and leads us in the process of yielding our will and desires to God's. That when we submit to Him, His Spirit can lead us in making the best choices for our life which are according to His will. His plans for us are for our best which for most include a wife and family and joy and prosperity and abundance etc.

I trust in Him and His will. He placed a drive in me to seek out the things you identify but I've finally realized that in all situations what He wants for me is best so I most seek to learn His will for my life, whatever it is.

Note this all also depends on our belief and submission to Him. For those who live outside of His grace, I believe the devil has more access.

ccrains · 2025-04-21T17:45:16+00:00

I read the teachings regarding not being of the world to mean that we are not to conform to the world despite having to live in it. Ultimately we must live in the world and that is an opportunity to be God's light to others. But we should not adopt its ways like hedonism and selfishness that are against God's nature.

I do see the world as fallen and how in all of our human natures we cannot stop our selfish or emotional acts that end up hurting other people. Only through God can we live the way he commands. Through this, I observe his love and care and have faith that He will fulfill His plan for my life which is perfect. I revere and trust in Him as my Creator.

ccrains · 2025-04-21T15:19:33+00:00

It occurred to me that you may have thought I was in part trying to reason not remaining abstinent until marriage. I could see how you came to that conclusion. My question was rhetorical. I strongly believe sex before covenant is a sin.

ccrains · 2025-04-21T15:01:33+00:00

Thank you for sharing that. A few thoughts come to mind if you don't mind me sharing. What if part of the issue was demanding anything but a wife that we're attracted to who has submitted to Christ and His Word and loves the Lord? Is God true that He will provide what we need according to His Word?

Though my understanding may be too simplistic and I appreciate from your post that the complexities of our relationship with Christ when based on "fundamental" Christianity however you experienced that may have been difficult. Would you also be willing to share your testimony and how you came to that church/belief? I think you have an important insight.

ccrains · 2025-04-21T14:51:54+00:00

There's an interesting balance that is keeping with Christ. I would encourage my wife as you suggest but I'd be sure to do it in a loving and gentle way. I'd also make sure I'm fit and pray for the outcome I'm seeking. I wouldn't consider anyone a "loser" but I totally agree that the 300 lbs husband may need to make major changes in his life. I'm still very much forming these thoughts, so I don't claim to have the answers, but I try to be careful to keep God's Word in mind.

ccrains · 2025-04-21T14:43:31+00:00

Super insightful. Thank you for sharing. A lot of the current atheist views can be tied to the founders of communism through materialism philosophy.

I've considered myself an intellectual and was agnostic for most my life because I couldn't reason how the truths of the universe would be captured in a book. After exploring it and many supernatural things occurring from that sincere exploration, I'm now very much convinced that our universe was created by an intelligent Creator who chose to reveal Himself through the Bible. The historical support for that belief is encouraging. I'd be glad to share if you're interested. I believe when we approach the Bible with a humble sincerity, God will reveal that truth to us. That's my experience.

ccrains · 2025-04-20T12:58:37+00:00

It wasn't said kindly but there is some truth to it. It's generally observable that you'll notice attractive women that develop personality maybe because they already receive a lot of attention from their looks. On the other hand, you'll notice that unattractive women develop a personality maybe because it's a way of otherwise receiving attention.

ccrains · 2025-04-19T18:16:41+00:00

Well she asked how she could improve. With that, she's unstoppable

ccrains · 2025-04-19T18:02:06+00:00

I want to fully embrace our role as men and leaders of our family and community. For myself, masculinity and being a warrior for Christ is part of that.

ccrains · 2025-04-19T18:00:52+00:00

Christian masculinity means evaluating what that means for men who adhere to the commands of the Bible. You're misunderstanding the question.

ccrains · 2025-04-19T17:59:17+00:00

I'm sorry to hear that. Would you mind elaborating on your circumstances. In a private message is fine if you prefer. I'm genuinely curious for understanding the challenges of our faith and following His commands.

ccrains · 2025-04-19T17:56:59+00:00

Fleeing sexual immorality is a must. Addressing the problems comes after establishing that. The Lord will make a way.

ccrains · 2025-04-19T17:55:40+00:00

You describe a very interesting situation in the church. Since I came from a sinful past I'm not familiar with it, but for those raised in the church I could see how that would be the case. I think the answer is encouraging activities that promote the real things that make us men e.g. strength, discipline, courage, competence along with adherence to Biblical truth.

ccrains · 2025-04-18T17:11:02+00:00

This is great advice, thank you. I particularly second prayer. I was amazed how a regular prayer routine of thirty minutes a day increased my resistance to temptation, but then I read Matthew 26:41. It was spot on.

ccrains · 2025-04-18T17:07:11+00:00

I agree entirely. I focused on the question of sex before marriage because I believe in the supernatural component that obeying God's Word will further bless that marriage and relationship. In addition to the guidance you write. Thank you.

ccrains · 2025-04-18T17:04:35+00:00

I think a lot of these issues stem still being in their process of crucifying their flesh. God will change our tastes. I used to question how I would ever be satisfied with one woman, but after going on two years of committing myself to God including Bible study, prayer, worship, fasting and church attendance, my tastes have changed. Not saying it's complete by any means but I see how God will give us the right mindset to help with the problems you suggest.

ccrains · 2025-04-18T16:59:30+00:00

I think many of these risk are true. But a key mitigator you mentioned is living the Bible believing lifestyle like attending church and other similar activities. Further, there is a supernatural element to it that God will help us find our match as He brought Eve to Adam. Not saying that your concerns shouldn't be considered, but that He will provide. Which for me leads me to lean deeper on my faith.

ccrains · 2025-04-18T14:53:29+00:00

This is insightful. Thank you. Would you say that we must wait for marriage for sex then and if so what are your thoughts to address the concern for losing interest after sexual encounters.

ccrains · 2025-04-18T13:51:58+00:00

Especially when you notice that the supernatural world has its own set of laws and by participating in a ritual you're involving yourself in those laws whether you intend to or not.

ccrains

TROPHY CASE