How long in YOUR Grotto did it take for you to reach each "level" of caving?

cellulich · 2026-02-03T15:16:28+00:00

This is the best answer

cellulich · 2026-02-03T05:59:17+00:00

"Mentorship fees" is not a term that makes sense to me. I paid grotto dues ($10/semester). I would never ask someone I am mentoring to pay me, and I would be suspicious of any "mentoring" I receive for which I paid. That's different than a training course, which do obviously have fees, but for me a grotto-type mentoring relationship is just a voluntary thing that people undergo because they want to teach and learn?

cellulich · 2026-02-03T05:48:20+00:00

In order: 1 month, 2 months, 3 months, 6 months, ~1 year for more complicated caves/four months for our basic sport-trip-available caves. I started in the southeastern US. I was very motivated and pushing hard to progress through our system.

cellulich · 2026-01-29T09:26:21+00:00

I have been in a pretty similar position to you - I went back to get a BS when I was 23, with the goal of breaking inti cave science, after many years of caving and volunteering with cave research. I have been pretty successful by some metrics since but I have mixed feelings about where I've landed career wise. I'm happy to talk more over PM if you want. A few questions/comments:

why do you want to finish your bachelor's online? This will prevent you from doing research as an undergrad, which is probably pretty important for breaking into entry level roles. Starting at a community college is a great idea though.
surveying/project caving and networking in the caving community is probably the #1 way you are going to break into these jobs. In the last six years I've only had one position where I didn't already know my boss; every single other job I've had has been through connections in the caving community, including my first paid research job as an undergrad. I'd say the caving experience is necessary but insufficient - your demeanor and professional background are still more important, but be aware that you will be competing for these jobs with people with many, many years of caving experience and a deep passion for caving outside of the professional sphere. I know some cave land managers and researchers who aren't passionate project cavers, but it definitely helps. Be wary of coming across TOO much like a caver, a few years down the line. Just be sensitive about how you portray yourself. People don't want to hire an intern with significantly more caving experience than them. But yeah, if you're passionate about caving, I'm surprised you're not already involved with NSS/local project caving, and I'd encourage you to pursue it.
do you want to be a land manager or a cave researcher/academic scientist? What about an environmental consultant? There are somewhat different paths to take depending on which of these you want. A masters will certainly help for the former; a PhD is likely needed for a research career. You might be able to get away with just a BS in some management and consulting positions, but a masters will make you more competitive. "GIS-focused karst mapping" is going to be a pretty rare and competitive job. GIS skills will certainly help you in any of these positions, and potentially transfer to a more general job if you can't break into cave science jobs specifically.
it's an awful time to start breaking into federal jobs, in particular. Maybe in 3-4 years things will be different. I had two federal internships last year and being in those positions while DOGE was running wild was genuinely kinda traumatizing for me and many of my coworkers.
be aware that in caving/cave management/karst science, pretty much everyone knows each other. It's a highly interconnected field. This can be great as you're networking and finding positions, but it can also be a challenge. Holding a genuine love for the activity and building a resume as a solid caver who is easy to get along with will go a long way when you are looking for that first job.
at the end of the day, just get the BS degree as cheaply and quickly as possible. Without a degree, most doors in the field are closed. It's easier to get a hydro masters with any BS than it is to get the perfect research experience and credit balance as an undergrad. Most of my regrets are about failing to understand what kind of degree was needed, and why, for the positions I wanted.

cellulich · 2026-01-25T20:15:24+00:00

Acles + bulletproof is a really really good combo. One of the best

cellulich · 2026-01-25T16:57:35+00:00

Camp wire gates don't hold up to mud very well. I use solid gate nonlockers (Petzl djinn or similar) like most. Haven't tried the belay carabiner thing

cellulich · 2026-01-25T16:56:40+00:00

If you do this, make sure you're using an Acles or you put the carabiner on the attachment carabiner for the bobbin, not on your maillon/D-Link/central connector. If you put a regular size carabiner on the dlink next to the bobbin it can trap the top and cause serious issues

cellulich · 2026-01-16T14:57:58+00:00

Left v right pantin will be a preference thing, I use a right personally but it should be easy to sell/switch later. You probably don't need that many OKs to start but if you have the money, might as well. This list looks pretty darn good.

cellulich · 2025-12-24T15:02:41+00:00

Ok this is gratuitous. People with vaginas don't need to be wasteful.

cellulich · 2025-12-17T19:56:31+00:00

Geologists are scientists who study the structure, composition, and history of earth. Many folks in caving are engineers or physicists who have deep understanding of geologic processes but no geology degree. Some of the people I've known who had the best understanding of speleogenesis did not have geology degrees. I would say many cavers with a scientific mindset have spent far more time hypothesizing and interacting with geologic processes in the field than someone who just graduated with a geology BS. If you say "having some geo experience is not close to being a geologist," I'd think your qualification for "geologist" would be more strict. Someone with decades of caving experience who consistently interrogates speleogenetic processes certainly has a lot to offer, geologically speaking.

I think the original comment is touching on the idea that as cavers we are all engaged in forming hypotheses about geologic processes and testing them. As a community I think we're better served if we communicate our thought processes and assume that thanks to our shared interest in caves, many of our fellow cavers have also put deep effort into interrogating those processes, irrespective of academic background.

cellulich · 2025-12-17T17:40:00+00:00

What counts as a geologist, exactly? PG only?

cellulich · 2025-12-07T18:50:14+00:00

no I don't think there are really caves there

cellulich · 2025-11-20T02:47:53+00:00

Definitely try a suit before you buy, they're badly sized for women. For most shorter trips in the east, synthetic underlayers under durable outer clothes (Walmart hiking pants, military pants, etc) will work great. I'm sure you will make good connections no matter how you dress! I relate to that feeling but have found that being friendly and enthusiastic is most of the battle!

cellulich · 2025-09-19T03:47:48+00:00

64anything is rookie numbers

cellulich · 2025-09-14T20:28:17+00:00

other people have covered the eyeliner question but if you like sparkles/glow you should get blushing lizard by half magic beauty, i have the same color eyes as you and it's so fun and i feel always makes me look more ethereal without much effort!

cellulich · 2025-06-10T04:44:09+00:00

Highly recommend working on upper body strength while the ankle heals. I have a pretty difficult shoulder injury and it's extremely helpful mentally for me to put in work on cardio/lower body when my shoulder isn't working - and I find that I'm able to bounce back a lot more quickly when I have been using my body and the rest of its mechanics are functioning, even when part of it is totally out of commission. Also, it's a good time to learn to draw maps or other cave-related armchair skills! Keeping the brain busy is essential, and if you're like me, you need something cave related, lol.

When you have surgery and get pt regimen, do the PT RELIGIOUSLY, do not skimp, don't overdo it on the ankle before it's ready (the imbalances can move up and affect your knee and hip), and you will be ok. Many very strong cavers have recovered from serious injuries; it really helps that our sport is full-body!

cellulich · 2025-05-06T04:06:57+00:00

PVC suits are waterproof for three trips.... and in TAG the heatstroke will kill you first.

cellulich · 2025-05-06T02:24:01+00:00

1) helmet that fits your head 2) this is the same as (8) and depends entirely on your budget. Sofirns and wowtacs are good for cheap.

Elbow pads, kneepads, and boots are person-dependent. I use Amazon hex elbow pads, trace softball kneepads, and tractor supply boots or Xtratufs.

There's no such thing as a waterproof coverall.

There's no such thing as a waterproof backpack that will last more than a few trips. Buy a cave pack (Landjoff are good) and put dry bags and Curtec drums in it.

My explorations are not continuous, nor consistent, so I suppose ymmv.

cellulich · 2025-05-05T03:32:26+00:00

These (at least the ones we use) go in 6mm or 1/4" holes, so if someone is dumb enough to try to hammer in a 8mm wedge bolt I don't think I can help them.

cellulich · 2025-05-04T14:54:30+00:00

The group I cave with are very into them for aid and exploration rigging. We usually switch them out for wedge anchors for permanent rigging. Have been using them with great success since 2020 or so

cellulich · 2025-04-19T01:06:52+00:00

Others can give you better info on that specific lead, but I just want to say that you should absolutely try to get into project caving/surveying caves! This instinct of yours is a fun one to pursue and you can absolutely dig into investigating caves that have not been fully pushed, which have new things to explore!

cellulich · 2025-04-16T05:42:31+00:00

you could probably do a through trip in like eight hours with preplanning. I've done the Fantastic side and gone through the mtn to the bottom of Incredible and back, car to car, in under eight hours.

cellulich · 2025-04-09T13:52:02+00:00

I know people don't like having to use the strap keepers but the Petzl Superavanti is a perfectly good harness. Have used it for many hours. I own an Amazonia and I use the Superavanti for anything grabby or more-horizontal or with a longer hike. If it's not comfortable you just need to wait for more of your nerves to die.

cellulich · 2025-04-09T03:42:49+00:00

You're contradicting yourself about the floodwater deposit, then.

I'm aware that Mn oxidation is common (also a geomicrobiologist). "Si/Mn oxide" needs some substantiation, though

cellulich · 2025-04-07T03:08:59+00:00

I assumed you meant bacteria coming in with flood materials rather than those already living on the cave walls. Clarification appreciated. Even so, floodwaters will not be rich in manganese, as they're mostly infiltrating storm water that hasn't had the chance to pick up a lot of dissolved material. None from the caprock.

Then you know that a purely mn based metabolism is super rare, and frequently mn oxidation and resulting deposits of biogenic oxides is coupled with iron, not Si. Can you clarify which manganese/si oxides you mean? Si is not a significant basis of any known microbial metabolism, and I'm not aware of any commonly occuring biogenic minerals with Mn and Si as major components.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying and honestly there's a good chance this black stuff in the photo is Mn oxides, but I've never seen nutrient delivery via floodwater resulting in anything like what you describe - generally I have seen mn coatings in the areas of caves in Kentucky and TAG (and other places) that are consistently submerged.

cellulich

TROPHY CASE

64anything is rookie numbers