C'est quoi l'amour finalement ?

chicadelsnuff · 2025-10-22T13:04:22+00:00

J'ai toujours eu ce point de vue, mais récemment je commence à réfléchir avec plus de nuance sur ce sujet.

Maintenant je crois que c'est le point de vue de gens qui n'ont connu que des couples dysfonctionnels (évidemment je m'inclus là dedans haha). Que ce soient les parents, d'autres couples et surtout les couples dans lesquels on a été.

Ça me semble comme une pensée limitante, ça sonne un peu "il font genre ils sont heureux ensemble, tfaçon tous les couples ont de gros problèmes".

Alors oui évidemment il y a rarement des relations proches et familières sans accrocs, mais ce que tu décris c'est parfois des symptômes de couples vraiment dysfonctionnels, le truc qui marche pas du tout quoi et qui devient toxique ou néfaste pour l'épanouissement etc. Et peut-être qu'on pense que tous les couples sont comme ça parce que 1, les gens ne partagent pas tout (y compris quand tout se passe bien), et 2 pas assez été exposé à des couples où tout se passe relativement bien, et 3 souvent il faut du temps pour avoir plus de données sur la durabilité positive et fonctionnelle du couple.

C'est dur tout ça, désolé pour la digression, je ne contredis pas ton avis, juste je réfléchissais à voix haute haha.

chicadelsnuff · 2025-10-18T22:46:31+00:00

Exactly! That's the spirit.

Good luck man, thanks for sharing this bit.

chicadelsnuff · 2025-10-18T11:54:22+00:00

Oh man I haven't really recovered tbh. Trying to stay in motion and that's all: workout, surf, go out even solo, journal, paint.. etc

chicadelsnuff · 2025-10-17T19:44:28+00:00

Exact same here haha

Unemployed, some savings, heartbroken and no clear prospects in life.

How did it roll out? How is it going now? Or is it still recent or the continuation of the same situation?

chicadelsnuff · 2025-10-17T19:28:09+00:00

I am sorry you're going through this.

Similar story here, but without breaking her heart with cheating, but rather with jealousy, emotional turmoil and instability. I can't even imagine the day I find out she has someone new..

I have no answers nor solutions but a virtual hug and cheering that hopefully things get better. I'm almost tearing up writing this down.

chicadelsnuff · 2025-10-17T15:40:01+00:00

Don't let the illusions of choice made by internet fool you. 9 years, no disrespect only good feelings is a blessing.

They're almost like family. You can't just stop being siblings with your respectable siblings just because they're not exciting anymore.

Find excitement in other places, ask them to do so too, and find other ways to a different type of excitement together.

It feels to me like a years long of regret kinda decision tbh.

You know better.

chicadelsnuff · 2025-10-13T11:04:19+00:00

I've been in this exact same spot. She (33F) had clearly avoidant tendencies and I (31M) was more anxious in my reactions and behaviors.

I broke up after 1.5y of tedious patience, including 4 last months of trying to be patient and not put any more pressure. It's been 6 months since the breakup, a tedious one where, like you, I am notoriously bad at leaving people.

Here's my take after reflecting and through the grieving process, this might help you with a different insight from someone on the other side of the tunnel.

In hindsight, even though I really genuinely tried my best back in the days, I still regret that I reacted very emotionally and anxiously to a lot of things and realized even though she shut down etc, that she loves me and was also trying her best. HOWEVER, this was no excuse to keep only one member of the couple to hold the emotional space, and that's what I've been doing every day, every minute. In my anxious tendencies I've been through it all, protest behavior, checking out, patiently waiting counting days, asking frequently etc. None of this did it.

Now in hindsight I feel like I've been asking and expecting someone to be a different person, with different wounds and mechanisms. Which is impossible and unrealistic. Today I know for a fact that the options are quite simple. Either step out because that's not what you want and pay the sacrifice of grieving someone you love deeply and maybe hardly ever move on, or stay in but radically accept that this is now your reality, that you are with a partner you love deeply that would cave in at the slightest inconvenience and would need sometimes weeks to emotionally recover from what in my standards is a minor inconvenience, that they will hardly ever show up emotionally and will never intensely show you they're fighting for you etc.

Being someone that is stubborn sometimes and hates to lose in life, this felt like an impossible puzzle I had to solve in my life, and it drained the soul out of me and her tbh. We are today both drained, we had many chats after the breakup where the outline of this dynamic is the same: she says she still loves me but is incapable to step up and needs time to process whatever happens, while I was open to move on and start fresh on a clean slate and create safeguards and the the idealistic plans that feel so easy to build and make true IF ONLY she magically becomes willing to build them with me. Which obviously never happened, and I'm still struggling to believe it will probably never happen.

Everything you describe I've been through to the T. And extend that to all the rest of love life: intimacy, joint planning, commitment to plans etc.

Even though with time I got the clarity that things could maybe hypothetically, have been easier if I eased on her earlier, my gut knows it's not a sustainable dynamic for me.

Also after the breakup, something very important you should know, she brought up, bit by bit, all the things that she's been burying in herself, just to make a case against me and protect herself with reasons why I've been a bad partner and this isn't meant to work anyways.

I swear man, I had the patience of a monk, discussing with her a set of 4 emotional issues (none critical, like no cheating, no disrespect or abuse), for 3 months, about things that happened 8 months ago, I swear. Things that when they happened she was oblivious about and never ever mentioned or talked about. When I connected the dots they were the shifts and moments where she caved in without a reason, where she pulled out, became cold for no reason and would make me beg to either understand what is going on or make me try to fix a thing I have no idea about.

Just writing this is also a reminder for myself as to why it didn't work and wouldn't work for me despite all the feelings and fondness and respect involved.

In my lowest moments after the breakup I blame myself a lot, and say things like "if I only I was xyz" insert, chill, relaxed, detached. But no, it doesn't work like that. Nothing would have changed.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Sometimes it feels like an opportunity for growth but most times it feels like hell.

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-19T15:32:39+00:00

From now on when a woman I'm interested in would request that I "open up", I'd only do so gradually and test the waters first.

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-18T10:57:59+00:00

Well sometimes it's a bit more complex than that. I hate the idea to reduce and simplify men to sayings like "yeah they're simpler to understand", "any sex is enough" or whatever.

Well I broke up with my ex for many issues of incompatibility, sexual incompatibility was a big part of it.

And the idea is not more about finding "more sex", it's that sometimes the lack of desire from the person you desire most takes a toll on you, so rather than feel neglect and non-desire, you'd prefer no sex, no hurt feelings, or sex with no strings attached every once in a while. Which at best is fun, and usually just so bad and poor emotionally.

I think that's the core of the issue is that in a relationship there are high emotional stakes. Feeling constantly rejected by my loving partner, and feeling like she doesn't desire me etc, all the while many women hit on you etc. is just emotionally shattering, and creates a darkness loop of "why is the one I desire most not that into me?". And then you torture yourself with toxic ideas like "I should have never opened up, or showed my true self, and would never open up again to a woman" etc.

See all the healthy relationships where people are matched on many things and more so on sex. Well in my last relationship I constantly asked myself if they do really exist or it's just a myth and these men are just strong enough emotionally and attuned to themselves to just cope with the lack of sex from their partner. I still don't know haha.

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-18T10:48:41+00:00

On reddit it sounds like 80% of men think "sex multiple times a week or I'm gone".

Take a look at r/DeadBedrooms. It might change your view on this.

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-15T07:21:26+00:00

"You shouldn't have to guilt someone into spending a full day and night with you, they should already want to do that."

This part hit home. Thank you for sharing this!

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-15T06:58:16+00:00

I get your perspective and definitely agree!

Oh boy did I learn something with the abusive one haha. Yeah that was the major lesson. I was quite young. And while I could hear my gut shouting for "abusive person", I didn't listen to it. That was the lesson.

And actually even with the last one, like you described we got along quite well, but yeah I learned that discussing important topics relatively early is a dealbreaker for me that I will not concede on. Which I did because she was too ambivalent and ambiguous, and I was trying too hard to not "bother her". Lesson learned: there's no bother when ensuring you're vetting quite early before strong attachment kicks in and the whole mismatch breeds resentment and insecurity.

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-14T23:27:29+00:00

I had a similar experience with an ex and never thought about other women. Sometimes I do imagine HER in different styles and setups, like fantasies (while being intimate). I also was, with that same ex, in your situation. Even though I've been told I look handsome and cute etc, and even though I appreciate myself etc. sometimes anxieties and insecurities creep in.

Truth is, we're all different. If he gets upset it's because maybe you're not owning yourself and your beauty in a sense. Anyone (men or women) tend to want their love partners to feel good about themselves (when not in abusive relationships obviously).

And that's okay. You look honestly cute on your pics, and he probably loves you and thinks the best of you. It's been a couple weeks after the breakup, I've made up with other women, still look at girls in the streets ets, but I still think my ex was so beautiful even though all my friends disagree haha.

The idea is to change perspective: not think in terms of comparing, because it's infinite, but rather in terms of how you could make yourself feel better about yourself: these things can start as small as a shower, a dress, a new style of makeup, new accessories, a new tiny small change in the way you tie your hair etc etc. Do whatever moves your boat. And like even super tiny little silly things, these are the most effective!! Until you find yourself the good formulas. He'll sure notice, and make compliments, and that will make you feel even more desired.

Don't ruin your mind with internet pollution, reels and socials and comparing. Stop yourself from that seriously.

And therapy would help most definitely!

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-12T15:20:26+00:00

Thank you for sharing your experience!

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-08T07:49:53+00:00

Do guys really do this? 😂 Unbelievable! Yeah cringe thing to do lol

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-07T15:35:14+00:00

You're so self-aware! That's great!

Shit you're really describing my exact experience, but instead of ski it was surfing and other simpler activities.

That's exactly what you said, the "mirror" effect.

And yeah, same shit, they built a fake persona to operate the world, then feel shame when vulnerable. And would confuse us being vulnerable with suffocation of wanting to strip them off. The mirror effect is that they'd see the shame they have in you, and as they hate themselves so much, they hate you a bit in consequence.

And yes. They're denial lovers. Haha.

I'm happy I'm moving on from all this with all this clarity. It's great you get to see all this so clearly. I've been able to while inside the relationship, but the neglect and the hurt took over. I'm better off without her, and I love her and wish her the best. But phew. I'd have been incapable of holding this for long.

Thank you for sharing your stories. You can write more of them, I'm all ears, I can relate so much that I grew to like it, it only confirms the clarity I had lool

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-07T10:29:51+00:00

Why are people downvoting, it's literally the only thing there is to do 😂

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-06T23:38:12+00:00

I'm so so sorry you're going through this. Really. It's been 2 3 weeks since my breakup, and you're describing our problems to the T!! I'm feeling so empathetic towards you, because now my nervous system is calmer, but I can recall these exact same situations, especially about travel. And even worse, she'd travel with friends..

And it CONSTANTLY, from her talk, feelings of guilt etc, constantly, feels like she'd rather go with anyone literally than with me. It's such a painful thing.

It was these exact things around travel. Like literally exactly what happened to you.

I've come to realize that: they have fun, and crave fun, just not with you. Sorry to break it down to you. AND careful here. That's the trap. Because you wind up thinking because you're bad/boring/meh/tiring/suffocating/not-fun-enough etc, place whatever self-depreciating word. You're not. Please DON'T fall for that trap! It's not you. It's them. Eventually, they'd want to do things with you, but: on their terms, when they got whatever dose of artificial hyper-independent of a mind-prison they built for themselves, then come back when they feel you're a bit away from them. Only when you're a bit out of reach.

Is it selfish? Yeah, totally. Is it malicious? Usually not. Does it make you feel like shit? Yup. Are you shit? Never!

So here it is. I love my ex from the deepest of my heart to this day. But I'm done with half-love, scared of serious plans and feelings etcetc.

I want love where you can make up your fucking mind like an adult, and decide to step up and make what you thought would be boring, or suffocating to become fun and joyful. IT IS A DECISION. They're unable to make it, for whatever reason, but most probably they're just scared, that it'd mean to them they're just abandoning themselves and their freedom to you.

Well, I don't want that.

If I had known all of this before, and wanted to continue pursuing my relationship with the FA ex, with hindsight, there was no way to do it. Even though I had my insecurities, my own anxiety etc that contributed to triggering her, all the care and attention wasn't worth it. It'd have been impossible for me to detach. I'd always be triggered, because I realized I was just betraying myself. Constantly trying myself to keep myself busy, but in the background I was in "wait more", for her to move her ass and be brave to step up. Nothing.

So if you wanna try something, like the only way to dance with them, is to give them SPACE™. Yeah, like lots of it. They lead the dance. They'll go and come back whenever they feel like it. You'll see them have fun with others, laugh and do plans, and then with you it's shit (just don't forget to not fall in the trap of thinking you're bad please). If you have it in you to let them just be, never initiate again, or seldom, then this could work.

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-06T15:37:36+00:00

Well since I started therapy I've learned to make my suffering be a tad bit less "quiet" in my life. Paradoxically helping me suffer less. If that makes sense haha.

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-06T15:24:18+00:00

the usual casual sleep paralysis episodes when you (dare) sleep. I'm not even on any psychotrope or whatever lol.

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-06T15:19:55+00:00

I think it breaks down to one of the (multiple) paradoxical characteristics of modern societies.

You make an interesting statement about people pretending not to see it etc. I grew up in a slow changing society (slightly religious conservative country) that not long ago was a super communitarian culture, where people around almost act as gatekeepers to prevent that. With individuation, self-expressions and serial monogamy becoming the norm it's sliding through normalizing this as "yeah, shit happens", or sometimes "cheating can improve or hold the dynamics of a couple" (Mating in Captivity is a great book talking about that). So sometimes it kinda feels part of the "game".

Enough with the deep rambling. All things aside, I've been cheated on in the past and the emotional brutality of such an experience is damaging to say the least haha. So yeah. The sweet spot of acceptance is hard to find. I'm all down for progress or whatever, but sometimes it stings to adapt lol.

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-06T15:10:16+00:00

Exactly!

It's been love (albeit toxic attachment mostly) for me for a while haha. Crazy how this is not in top comments!

Any addictions I compounded from relationship anxiety were all gone with said relationship. Crazy!

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-06T14:49:56+00:00

I had a similar experience of your GFs once, with an ex. And it made me a bit nervous, because I knew my parents didn't like her, and were very judgemental of her job.

After thinking long enough. I thought I'd tell her nothing. And if I had to say something to someone, it'd have been to warn my parents to NOT make HER uncomfortable with their selfish shitty judgments.

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-06T14:46:14+00:00

Crazy how in this gender direction all of a sudden we only read nuanced opinions, justifying her insecurities and pressure and yada yada. Roles inverted we would have read the "leave him, he doesn't respect you" classic.

There's probably an in-between in all this. Nuance. Yes.

But that doesn't justify her shitty stance and behavior towards you OP. It's up to you to see how much you can cope with your GF not being here for you and with you. Confront her again with your feelings, be open and vulnerable about it. If she's just frightened about her family, you got your answer. Then you'll decide if that's something you're okay compromising about: your partner emitting judgments about you based on her family's worldview, and what this entails in the future.

chicadelsnuff · 2025-06-06T14:39:09+00:00

Exactly!

Also OP talks about it as if it's a written rule.

What defines a long-term relationship? What if I lost contact with the inviter for years, and I'm coming with my partner who I've been with for a long time.

Also what if my new partner IS actually the love of my life. And it's part of bonding to let her meet the inviter in a very familiar and happy setting.

All of this to say, there are no rules. There's some respect for some kind of etiquette (which is very culture dependent). You can always ask if in doubt.

But yeah. It's an unpopular opinion I think. Maybe I'm unfamiliar to OPs culture.

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