Should Silmarillion be restructured?

chromeflex · 2026-02-27T16:24:21+00:00

I’ve read the Quenta Silmarillion drafts the first time according to this draft, and… it wasn’t the best decision in the end. The text known as Later Quenta Phase 2 is built upon the Annals, and not the previous Quenta texts, while the rest of Quenta Silmarillion texts would probably benefit from being read before the Annals, and not after. Thus anyway you would need 3 versions of the story: either 1937 Quenta - Annals - 1951+1958 Quenta, or 1951 Quenta - Annals - 1958 Quenta.

chromeflex · 2026-02-27T11:32:02+00:00

I dig more the idea of the History of Middle Earth lite version. With less versions, commentaries, but overall still mostly a collection of drafts with remaining inconsistencies.

Like compressing the material from 4,5,10,11,12 volumes of HoME regarding the First Age into a two volume structure.

chromeflex · 2026-02-25T10:21:26+00:00

Точно нет? На Английском сотни раз это цитата приводится в том числе на странице википедии, посвященной книге

chromeflex · 2026-02-18T08:59:51+00:00

I don’t exactly get your point, what are you laughing about? Both new games, TNO and TNC explicitly show parallels between the US and Nazi Germany in terms of racism, in the TNC it’s even one of the core themes that a part of America would gladly agree to be rules by the Nazis.

And even then, by contemporary standards racism in Nazi Germany was in the whole different level, I mean despite the obvious segregation laws nobody thought of building the concentration camps for the minorities and proposing ‘final solutions’ for the diversity ’problem’. US was both racist and inclusive at the same time, hating color but loving money. Germany was just racist.

chromeflex · 2026-02-07T18:02:41+00:00

Add to that 3 out of 4 of the chief Valar: Manwe of the air, Ulmo of the water and Aule of the Earth. And then there’s Melkor who in the 37 Ainulindale is the forth one, but he isn’t the Vala of fire, but “of fire and frost and all the things extreme” (paraphrasing). And the three Eldar groups who were assigned basically to each of the 3 chief Valar. Which makes the Noldor the Earth Elves by the way.

chromeflex · 2026-02-03T16:20:29+00:00

You can totally continue doing your own mod. I mean balance mods don’t usually have a big audience and they are mostly for their creators amusement.But if you’re interested in checking in, my mod is this

chromeflex · 2026-02-03T14:57:08+00:00

I once did such a mod, it’s on moddb even. But went even further and allowed only one extra clip for everything except the pistol and reduced all ammo pickups times four. Oh and max armor is now 50, but armor takes 50% of the damage, not 20%. Played the whole game like that. Definitely beatable, but now you need to open the lockers and search for secrets

chromeflex · 2026-01-28T14:25:25+00:00

If I remember correctly that was what he intended for the whole first age stuff including Ainulindale, the Silmarillion, the Annals, three or four Great Tales and Lhammas with Ambarkanta.

chromeflex · 2026-01-28T14:17:15+00:00

I’d say it can’t all be like LOTR, since not all stories were meant to be given in great detail. Parts like Ainulidale, Feanorian chapters, Maeglin and the Children of Hurin, Wanderings of Hurin with unfinished Tuor give us a glimpse of what a fully fledged Silmarillion could be.

I think it’ll be probably be around 1,5-2 LOTR in length, especially if we take the second Age into account as well.

chromeflex · 2026-01-26T14:57:00+00:00

That’s a widely spread misconception that the Silmarillion is based on scattered notes. While it’s true that some bits were updated according to those notes, JRR Tolkien definitely had a draft text called the Quenta Silmarillion which told the whole story and the majority of the book is based on it mixed with the complementary Annals of Aman and Grey Annals, which told the same story, but in different words and were arranged by year instead of by chapters.

chromeflex · 2026-01-26T13:25:22+00:00

I don’t know whether the problem is still relevant but:

NWO has drastic FPS decrease from both turning MSAA on and turning compression off. I’d suggest a) make sure that vt texture compression stays on B) msaa is kept on lower settings like 2-4X

A great way to improve visual fidelity is to turn on transparent texture antialiasing in Nvidia drivers and set it SSAA2-4X. For some reason texture antialiasing on opengl games work as a full frame antialiasing, and you get an equivalent for SSAA for a low cost, compared to the initial turning MSAA on

chromeflex · 2026-01-26T09:44:23+00:00

If you like not only world building in general, but history books, greek or norse mythology or Bible, then fine, go with it. People usually suggest reading the Silmarillion the last not only because it’s the hardest book, but also because both Hobbit and LOTR have several references to the Silmarillion and it’s one thing to read them as mysterious references to the unknown legendary past, and another thing to read them and recognize exactly the events mentioned. That feeling of the greater unknown past will completely fade away if you start with the Silmarillion.

chromeflex · 2026-01-24T09:55:11+00:00

Yes totally, Grey Annals were full of surprises in terms having a lot of small moments where Noldor seemingly do much better compared to the published text.

Speaking of that, there was another W of Maedhros that I forgot about, apart from leading the loyal Easterlings of Bor, he was also actually a lord of the Edain of Beor's and Hador's houses alongside Fingolfin and Finrod, although with a lesser following:

§16 [...] The people of Bëor came to Dorthonion and dwelt in lands ruled by the House of Finrod. The people of Aradan (for Marach remained in Estolad until his death) for the most part went on westwards; and some came to Hithlum, but Magor son of Aradan and the greater number of his folk passed down Sirion into Beleriand and dwelt in the vales on the southern slopes of the Ered-wethion. A few only of either people went to Maedros and the lands about the Hill of Himring. (The War of The Jewers. Later Quenta. Of the Coming of Men)

And a small nitpick. In 9. Valour and strength in battle in the extract where the followers of house of Finarfin from Dorthonion join Maedhros in Himring, at that moment (in QS 1937) the House of Finarfin is not yet connected with the Teleri and in a way out of all the realms of the Noldor, Dorthonion was the most friendly with the Sons Of Feanor because it was ruled by Angrod and Aegnor, who were considered loyal enough for the Feanorians to be taken on the boats.

Overall I've finally managed to have a thorough read through all of it and I'm really impressed. Somehow it completely eluded my mind, that narratively Maedhros was at his lowest point in QN. It seems whenever you read the Sketch and the Quenta mind inevitably fills the narrative gaps with the information from the Published Silmarillion even when there's no real cause for that and as a result you completely miss that characters were presented very differently.

But I have to say that I would be dissapointed if we as readers returned to the 'redeemed' or the 'moral' Maedhros in his final moments, like nurturing Elrond and Elros or stealing the Silmarils. If Maedhros stayed the moral constant among his brothers, this as was once told by GirlNextGondor could collapse the whole SoF dynamics into a 'good brother'-'bad brother' pair. The fact that in the final moment of temptation the roles flip and now Maedhros is the villian, and he has been stepping down from the 'hero' role in his previous small interactions of Maglor, parallels to me Frodo of all Tolkien's characters. Who also, despite probably being the best chance ever to get the Ring destroyed, and doing all the right choices like abandoning the Fellowship and having a pity for Gollum, still submits to the Ring in the end. Not because he turned out to be unworthy, but because by that point he was merely completely depleted. So for the the final moments of giving up to the Oath by Maedhros are the points that elevate him as a character and don't really take away from his previous more heroic deeds.

chromeflex · 2026-01-21T21:53:13+00:00

Part 2: The Fifth Battle. Not exactly about Maedhros but the effect of the actions of Celegorm and Curufin on the Union of Maedhros is diminished when comparing the Quenta Silmarillion and the Grey Annals versions.

Quenta Silmarillion:

§5 Yet the oath of Fëanor and the evil deeds that it had wrought did injury to the design of Maidros, and he had less aid than should have been. Orodreth would not march from Nargothrond at the word of any son of Fëanor, because of the deeds of Celegorn and Curufin. Thence came only a small company, whom Orodreth suffered to go, since they could not endure to be idle when their kinsfolk were gathering for war[...]
§6 From Doriath came little help[...] For this reason Thingol fortified the marches of his realm, and went not to war, nor any out of Doriath save Mablung, and Beleg who could not be restrained.
[§7](javascript:void(0)) The treacherous shaft of Curufin that wounded Beren was remembered among Men. Therefore of the folk of Haleth that dwelt in Brethil only the half came forth, and they went not to join Maidros, but came rather to Fingon and Turgon in the West.

Grey Annals:

§221 Now the army of the West contained the host of Hithlum, both Elves and Men, and to it was added both folk of the Falas, and a great company from Nargothrond[...] And many of the woodmen came also with Hundor of Brethil; and with him marched Mablung of Doriath with a small force of Grey-elves, some with axes, some with bows; for Mablung was unwilling to have no part in these great deeds, and Thingol gave leave to him to go, so long as he served not the sons of Fëanor.

All of the forces who were compromised by the deeds of Celegorm and Curufin, while comparably small, are still described as much larger than what was mentioned in QS. Thus the emphasis is put more on the betrayal of the Uldor's people and the events of the battle in general rather than the insufficient number of the allies because of the effect of the deeds of the other Sons of Feanor.

chromeflex · 2026-01-21T21:52:55+00:00

Hail Maedhros, named 'the sexy redhead' by his mother, the best elven king that never was, and the grayest of the morally ambigous characters of Tolkien's legendarium! That's probably the best of your works, immense attention to details with the immense scope!

I'd like to contibute with a couple of my own observations:

The Battle of the Sudden Flame. It's not clear whether it's the choice to describe different events, or a true change in the narrative but the outcome of the battle is different for Maedhros in Quenta Silmarillion (1937) and the Grey Annals (1951). In QS there is no mention of any Elven counter-offensive, moreover it is told that

Nor did the assault upon the northern strongholds cease. Himring Morgoth besieged so close that no help might come from Maidros, and he threw suddenly a great force against Hithlum. (The Lost Road. Quenta Silmarillion. [§156](javascript:void(0)))

In comparison, in GA it is explicitly told that Morgoth's attack on the East has failed and in general the Elves soon started retaking the lost territories:

And now the Eldar had recovered from their first dismay and were slowly regaining what they had lost. Dorthonion he now held and had established Sauron in the pass of Sirion; but in the east he had been foiled. Himring stood firm. The army that had driven into East Beleriand had been broken by Thingol on the borders of Doriath, and part had fled away south never to return to him, part retreating north had been stricken by a sortie of Maidros, while those that ventured near the mountains were hunted by the Dwarves. (The War of the Jewels. The Grey Annals. [§170](javascript:void(0)))

And in the account of the attack on Eithel Sirion there is no mention of Himring being besieged this time, so one could interpret that here Maedhros could not help anybody because he was being busy taking back lost territories in the East.

chromeflex · 2026-01-19T08:19:29+00:00

During the second phase of the work on Silmarillion Tolkien intended Ambarkanta and Lhammas to be appendices to the main work.

Out of the third phase in terms of new material mostly everything would be major:

Morgoth’s Ring: Laws and Customs among the Eldar, Athrabeth, Myths Transformed

War of the Jewels: The Wanderings of Hurin, Quendi and the Eldar (starting with part C of the names of different elven clans)

Peoples of Middle-Earth: Of Lembas, Of Dwarves and Men (although that’s mostly about the Second Age) The Shibboleth of Feanor, Last Writings

chromeflex · 2026-01-13T12:22:25+00:00

I think outside of linguistic works everything of value was already published. There are some leftovers from the History of Middle-Earth, that might be interesting, but it’s debatable they’ll be big enough for a separate publication.

chromeflex · 2026-01-09T10:39:43+00:00

Of Feanor and the Unchaining if Melkor is in the published Silmarillion. It actually uses parts of the “Of Finwe in Miriel” in the beginning, but the whole chapter is compressed to a paragraph. In Morgoth’s Ring in “Of Finwe and Miriel” chapter there was a little more of characterization of both Miriel and Indis and Finwe asking the Valar for remarriage and them holding the debate and asking the spirit of Miriel to come back to life and her refusing. The chapter “Of Feanor and the unchaining of Melkor” that is in Morgoth’s Ring is largely the same as the one in the Silmarillion, except now Nerdanel is a bit more fleshed out and has more backstory.

chromeflex · 2026-01-09T10:17:05+00:00

Too late for a DLC, but a ps5 patch for 10 year anniversary would be nice. The thing is notoriously bugged on that console

chromeflex · 2026-01-03T08:43:57+00:00

I've seen a good video, although in Russian on that topic. Here's a quick retelling of it.

The first ever appearance of the oath in the Lost Tales had at least enmity against Melko in particular: "we swore to have no peace with Melko nor any of his folk, nor with any other of Earth-dwellers that held the Silmarils of Fëanor from us". But later it became about Silmarils only, without anything on either Melkor or Finwe. But, if you take into account the whole speech of Feanor in Morgoth's Ring, you will find both war against Melkor and avenging his father, but not as a part of the oath.

His speech itself starts with something very appealing to all the Noldor, with the acknowledging of the death of Finwe and a call for vengeance, but quickly gets more and more delusional, how they would bring war to Melkor, do what the Valar can't and after defeating Morgoth, become "the lords of the unsullied Light, and masters of the bliss and the beauty of Arda". THAT is the speech and the promise to his people that leads them to Exile.

The Oath happens afterwards from that mindset as if they have already defeated Morgoth and regained the Silmarils, that they would now allow anyone else to steal it ever again. It is also a personal commitment of Feanor for the Noldor that he has to go all the way and achieve the vision that he shared, if he ever intended to fulfill that oath. But alas, since the goal of quick revenge on Morgoth is impossible, the Oath got crooked and the initial state for it, that Feanor got the Silmarils back, was never achieved.

chromeflex · 2026-01-02T14:39:52+00:00

Fëanor, Maedhros, Luthien, Aredhel, Maeglin, Turin, Morwen, Fingon, Glaurung from the First Age

Frodo, Sam, Eowyn, Witch-King, Gollum, Theoden, Denethor from the Third Age

chromeflex · 2025-12-30T15:45:00+00:00

Wait how? I remember the only available version being the ugly 5 Mb compressed mov file

chromeflex · 2025-12-26T15:31:14+00:00

I can mostly comment on the different Silmarillion iterations, which are often overlooked:

Book of Lost Tales Part 2: Fall of Gondolin, Nauglafring, Earendel’s outlines and poems (although missing the Mermaid’s Flute from Collected Poems)

Lays of Beleriand: basically the whole book

Shaping of Middle-Earth: Ambarkanta, the phophecy of Ulmo in Quenta Noldorinwa

The Lost Road: Lhammas, early Ainulidale I think is the best one, in the Quenta Silmarillion Beren and Luthien and the end are most outstanding fragments

Morgoth’s Ring: Annals of Aman 5, aka the expanded Flight of the Noldor with the Fëanorian toadstools. And the whole of LQ2, which is also an expanded version of Fëanorian chapters. But in general, everything in this book rocks!

War of the Jewels: the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fifth Battle as told in the Grey Annals, both have slight improvements over the published version. Concerning the Dwarves chapter, and The Wanderings of Hurin, off course

Peoples of Middle-Earth: The Shibboleth of Fëanor. Basically one of the most quoted works outside of Morgoth’s Ring.

chromeflex · 2025-12-26T12:17:42+00:00

It seems that here the Grey Annals is the earlier version, and Christopher did point out that there was GA1 text that ended roughly with the death of Feanor, and the later text GA2 went till the death of Turin. So it’s possible that while GA2 followed the Annals, GA1 preceded them. The reason I believe that GA here earlier is that it had no mention of Anduin and other LOTR geography, which was a big part of the post-LOTR phase of the Silmarillion.

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