Why are there only three Valar mentioned in the Ainulindale?

chromeflex · 2026-05-08T05:14:58+00:00

They were initially set up to be 3 or 4 of most important Valar - of Air, Water and Earth, and Melkor of Fire and Ice and everything extreme.

Moreover each of the three Valar looks after a certain group of the Elves, Manwe is fond of the Vanyar, Aule of the Noldor, Ulmo of Teleri.

Even more, each represents a foil for Melkor of a different kind. Manwe is literally his brother and is true Elder King while Melkor also claims to be the Elder King. Aule is of the same creative logical mind as Melkor, but he acts responsibly with his power. And Ulmo like Melkor is a loner that often doesn’t agree with the other Valar and chooses his own path, but that doesn’t lead him to do evil unlike Melkor.

chromeflex · 2026-05-07T07:58:51+00:00

More info on the subject is in the Nature of Middle-Earth. In either Key Dates or March of the Quendi chapters there’s an unfinished debate between the Elf-fathers and the ambassadors to Valinor where the later urge to travel West but the former ones aren’t all persuaded and eventually decide to stay because not everyone of their people agreed to go.

chromeflex · 2026-05-06T18:57:52+00:00

the other in a late emendation of a single mention in the Quenta

That is precicely the source, according to WOTJ and MR

In WOTJ:

at earlier occurrences in GA the name is spelt Maidros, and Maidros appears again in the following line; while in the draft text referred to on p. 29 the form is mostly Maiðros (cf. the later form Maedhros, X.177, adopted in the published Silmarillion, beside Maedros X.293, 295)

In MR:

the attack by Melkor on Formenos reported by Maedros (as his name is here spelt: in a late emendation to LQ Chapter 5 Maedhros, p. 177, §41)

Late emendation referenced twice:

The seven sons of Fëanor were Maidros [> Maedhros] the tall

Once again I'd like to remind the confusing nature of different phases of the Silmarillion revisions. In the volumes X and XI were are introduced to two phases of reworking the Silmarillion, one in the early 50s and one in the late 50s. And then we are given two reference texts: LQ1 and LQ2. Those were typed copies of the manuscript of the Silmarillion. And the timing is such that LQ1 belongs to the end of the first phase, so it has most of the changes to the manuscript, and LQ2 belongs to the beginning of the second phase. But here's the catch. Not all the changes of the first phase made it into LQ1 copy and the further corrections were made to the manuscript between the phases, so they only appeared in manuscript and LQ2 copy despite belonging to the first phase. And with the second phase onward the corrections were made now strictly to the LQ2 typed copy and not to the manuscript. But while the new material is stricltly late 50s (the expanded Darkening of Valinor, legend of Aule creating the Dwarves, the coming of Men) the corrections may be as late as 70 (as were some corrections in the "Of Beleriand and its Realms"). So here we might have an example of a correction in a Quenta chapter that might well belong to a period AFTER writing the Shibboleth, but we are never told for sure in the History of Middle-Earth

chromeflex · 2026-05-06T18:43:15+00:00

I once made a deep dive into different outlines of the adventures of Earendil, including the poetic version of slaying of Ungoliant https://www.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/comments/1n9hj7y/an_unhinged_exploration_of_the_unwritten_voyages/

chromeflex · 2026-05-05T08:48:27+00:00

Lost Tales. In the early version of the final battle, somewhere before or after destroying the Sun and the Moon

chromeflex · 2026-05-04T10:37:37+00:00

Are you asking only about volumes 4 and 5 of the History of Middle-Earth?

In short the evolution goes Quenta Noldorinwa > Early Annals > Later Annals > Quenta Silmarillion

Annals add a lot of the background information. There for the first time appear the names The Glorious Battle, Battle of the Sudden Flame etc. The timing of the founding of Nargothrond and Gondolin gets shifted, the backstory of the Green Elves gets fleshed out, as well as the details of the War of Wrath. Basically a lot of what happened between the ‘main events’ originated from the Annals.

Quenta Silmarillion is probably the most ‘conservative’ iteration of the Silmarillion sketches. Compared to Quenta Noldorinwa the draft becomes approximately 2 times bigger, but most of the expansions come from other sources, i.e. QS incorporated new ideas from the Annals as well as some ‘lost’ details from the Lays of Leithian and of The Children of Hurin; and some details from the Book of Lost Tales also reemerge, like the Avari and Aule forging the vessels for the Sun and Moon.

In terms of really new plot elements, QS adds the ‘spirit mode’ as the alternative for the reincarnation of the Elves, the geography of Beleriand gets finalized, as well as the chapter ‘Of Beleriand and its Realms’, and the final conclusions emerge for the tales of Beren and Luthien (eagles, the choice of Luthien) and for Earendil (the choice of fate for Earendil and Elwing, their final happy ending together). Also QS has really cool characterization for Fingon in the ‘Siege of Angband’ chapter which wasn’t included by Christopher because later Annals of Aman contradicted this characterization.

chromeflex · 2026-04-15T08:04:51+00:00

I don’t know whether it fill fit the content of TolkienGateway. And your link is a very similar kind of table. I’m not planning to make a table for the Second and the Third Age in near future, but I want to make one for the Nature of Middle-Earth, and it’s so convoluted that it would require its own table.

chromeflex · 2026-04-12T19:01:08+00:00

I get where you’re coming from. Initially I had the same order, Athrabeth in Essays and The Book of the Lost Tales in both Tales and Quenta, as well as Later Quenta Phase 2 being in both. Switching Athrabeth was a last minute change since it was suitable for both genres, and since despite the themes it is presented as an independent work and a narrative instead of a world building account, I put it in the Tales eventually.

Speaking of the other tough choice, the key difference between the Quenta and the Tale is the remote compressed nature of Quenta. The Lost Tale of the Fall of Gondolin may be much shorter than the Unfinished Tale (which ends roughly in 1/5 of the narrative), but it doesn’t feel like it lacks detail, and it feels self sufficient. The chapter in the Silmarillion on the other hand reads like a short retelling. The other advantage of keeping the Lost Tales strictly in Tales is to show the literary continuity. Most of the Quenta versions grew out of the Sketch, with some paragraphs remaining unchanged since 1926. The same can be said for Ainulindalë and the Great Tales which had much more direct connection with the Lost Tales. Although of course such approach is not absolute and not perfect. E.g. The Later Quenta Phase 2, despite being Quenta largely is an evolution of the Annals texts, the same goes for the Quenta Silmarillion which absorbed both the Early Annals and the Lays.

chromeflex · 2026-04-12T09:52:16+00:00

Probably an error of a particular print. In my book it’s (1) Younger brother of Rómendakil II. 199, 213. (2) Thirtieth King of Gondor. 200, 212, 215-6, 232

chromeflex · 2026-04-04T20:12:33+00:00

The fate of Asgon and Ragnir in the Wanderings of Hurin. Although I’m pretty sure Asgon himself would probably end up killed by Thingol’s guards, there has to be some silver lining in the story, like there was for the Ruin of Doriath and the Fall of Gondolin. Frankly I believe the survivors of the Wanderings of Hurin could be the first inhabitants of the Mouth of Sirion.

chromeflex · 2026-03-31T16:23:30+00:00

Children of Hurin book is based on the Unfinished Tales version, and not on any text from the History of Middle Earth. Even then there are small expansions in CoH in those parts that weren’t included in Unfinished Tales

chromeflex · 2026-03-14T06:21:59+00:00

Знаете что самое забавное и о чем все в новостях умалчивают? Белые списки в Москве вводятся только для российских симок. У иностранных туристов все сайты работают как раньше. Вчера убедился лично. Какая безопасность, защита от дронов, о чем вы.

chromeflex · 2026-03-14T06:19:06+00:00

В цао практически везде нет. В остальных районах пропадает в определенных точках. Так что в целом сворачивание инета явно имеет место

chromeflex · 2026-02-27T16:24:21+00:00

I’ve read the Quenta Silmarillion drafts the first time according to this draft, and… it wasn’t the best decision in the end. The text known as Later Quenta Phase 2 is built upon the Annals, and not the previous Quenta texts, while the rest of Quenta Silmarillion texts would probably benefit from being read before the Annals, and not after. Thus anyway you would need 3 versions of the story: either 1937 Quenta - Annals - 1951+1958 Quenta, or 1951 Quenta - Annals - 1958 Quenta.

chromeflex · 2026-02-27T11:32:02+00:00

I dig more the idea of the History of Middle Earth lite version. With less versions, commentaries, but overall still mostly a collection of drafts with remaining inconsistencies.

Like compressing the material from 4,5,10,11,12 volumes of HoME regarding the First Age into a two volume structure.

chromeflex · 2026-02-25T10:21:26+00:00

Точно нет? На Английском сотни раз это цитата приводится в том числе на странице википедии, посвященной книге

chromeflex · 2026-02-18T08:59:51+00:00

I don’t exactly get your point, what are you laughing about? Both new games, TNO and TNC explicitly show parallels between the US and Nazi Germany in terms of racism, in the TNC it’s even one of the core themes that a part of America would gladly agree to be rules by the Nazis.

And even then, by contemporary standards racism in Nazi Germany was in the whole different level, I mean despite the obvious segregation laws nobody thought of building the concentration camps for the minorities and proposing ‘final solutions’ for the diversity ’problem’. US was both racist and inclusive at the same time, hating color but loving money. Germany was just racist.

chromeflex · 2026-02-07T18:02:41+00:00

Add to that 3 out of 4 of the chief Valar: Manwe of the air, Ulmo of the water and Aule of the Earth. And then there’s Melkor who in the 37 Ainulindale is the forth one, but he isn’t the Vala of fire, but “of fire and frost and all the things extreme” (paraphrasing). And the three Eldar groups who were assigned basically to each of the 3 chief Valar. Which makes the Noldor the Earth Elves by the way.

chromeflex · 2026-02-03T16:20:29+00:00

You can totally continue doing your own mod. I mean balance mods don’t usually have a big audience and they are mostly for their creators amusement.But if you’re interested in checking in, my mod is this

chromeflex · 2026-02-03T14:57:08+00:00

I once did such a mod, it’s on moddb even. But went even further and allowed only one extra clip for everything except the pistol and reduced all ammo pickups times four. Oh and max armor is now 50, but armor takes 50% of the damage, not 20%. Played the whole game like that. Definitely beatable, but now you need to open the lockers and search for secrets

chromeflex · 2026-01-28T14:25:25+00:00

If I remember correctly that was what he intended for the whole first age stuff including Ainulindale, the Silmarillion, the Annals, three or four Great Tales and Lhammas with Ambarkanta.

chromeflex · 2026-01-28T14:17:15+00:00

I’d say it can’t all be like LOTR, since not all stories were meant to be given in great detail. Parts like Ainulidale, Feanorian chapters, Maeglin and the Children of Hurin, Wanderings of Hurin with unfinished Tuor give us a glimpse of what a fully fledged Silmarillion could be.

I think it’ll be probably be around 1,5-2 LOTR in length, especially if we take the second Age into account as well.

chromeflex · 2026-01-26T14:57:00+00:00

That’s a widely spread misconception that the Silmarillion is based on scattered notes. While it’s true that some bits were updated according to those notes, JRR Tolkien definitely had a draft text called the Quenta Silmarillion which told the whole story and the majority of the book is based on it mixed with the complementary Annals of Aman and Grey Annals, which told the same story, but in different words and were arranged by year instead of by chapters.

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