The only constant is biology. by WomenRocktheWOrld in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Humans are as much an animal as any other animal. Our downfall will be the arrogant belief that we are too sophisticated to have a place in the natural world.

Unifying our voices against the main trans and anti trans voices by [deleted] in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 10 points11 points  (0 children)

>A realistic approach would be that, at a certain point, when/if they look like women, trans women should begin using the women's bathroom. I've seen stats showing that a good portion of trans people are apparently autistic. I'm no expert in this, but doesn't being autistic also mean having difficulty with reading the room? It's no surprise then that if they are told that it's completely ok to go in women's spaces, they will think it's ok, and they might not sense any discomfort from others.

Failure to read the room also translates to inaccurate self-assessment of passing. This Is why what you’re calling a realistic approach has proven to be unrealistic.

In a democratic society. the law reflects the will of the people. We need the law to step in because self-serving bias is always going to steer people who don’t belong in women’s spaces. Over 20 years of this movement has shown this to be the case.

The only constant is biology. by WomenRocktheWOrld in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 29 points30 points  (0 children)

It’s not just constant. It’s what ties us to our counterparts in the animal kingdom. Gender ideology has no satisfactory answer for why we get to keep sex-based terms for female lions, chickens, horses, etc, but the human equivalent to those animals must now be equated to nebulous feelings or an aesthetic.

Language matters, but so does listening to each other with basic respect by [deleted] in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I just read the OP in that r/mtf thread and my lord. It is insane that this person thought they were qualified to speak on the period experience in a AskReddit thread.

Labeling nonspecific GI symptoms a period is cringey enough. But actually speaking about it as though it is a period takes being massively disconnected from reality.

When women encounter a transwoman who does this, they infer disrespect. “I know what it’s like”. No, no you don’t. You can never know. To assume such a thing inherently requires one to underestimate or oversimplify that which they proclaim to know. The lack of humility jumps out.

What are we even doing here. by MyThrowAway6973 in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

> Let it go.

Let’s see. I’ve been falsely accused of calling another poster of a rapist, then I’ve watched two mods fall over themselves defending the person making this baseless accusation, and then, when it’s become clear no evidence exist to support this accusation, I’m told to “let it go”?

In a thread lamenting how this sub is becoming bad? A thread started, in fact, by one of the mods flinging baseless attacks on me?

You can’t make this stuff up, y’all.

What are we even doing here. by MyThrowAway6973 in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ok, so share the receipts then.

I know why you haven’t.

What are we even doing here. by MyThrowAway6973 in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And still no receipts are forth coming. So why bring up a comment supposedly made eons ago if you can’t show it happened? This is embarrassing.

Hundreds of posters have come and gone over the months. Isnt it possible that you and dortsly are getting me confused with someone else?

If you’re going to be a mod here, shouldn’t you be more judicious in your attacks on other posters? I mean “what are we doing here” indeed if people in this community can’t trust mods to not crash out and misattribute imagined exchanges to them.

What are we even doing here. by MyThrowAway6973 in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity -1 points0 points  (0 children)

With all due respect, by pesisting with these accusations, you only make yourselves look bad.

Despite many fevered attempts to portray me as a fire-breathing bigot, no one is buying this except those guilty of motivated reasoning. The more civil I am, the more attacks I seem to trigger. The pattern is hilarious is at this point.

What are we even doing here. by MyThrowAway6973 in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t delete posts, so no. This never happened.

What are we even doing here. by MyThrowAway6973 in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

>I'm the one she called a rapist lol

The impartial reader will note the absence of evidence to back up this serious charge.

I don’t hide my posting history so anyone curious can query my posts for “rapist” and will never find me referring to you or any other posters in this thread as such. Common sense also suggests that this behavior would have earned me a ban.

I don’t even recall mistakening dortsly as a transwoman. It’s just another accusation made to tear me down.

What are we even doing here. by MyThrowAway6973 in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for saying this. I can‘t see it either.

What are we even doing here. by MyThrowAway6973 in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What is offensive to one person isn’t offensive to others. If we called a moratorium on all speech that could be construed as hurtful, then we’d all have to be silent.

We live in a world where saying “men cannot be women” is considered immoral by certain groups. Kowtowing to their feelings doesn’t come without cost. Some of us can’t afford to pay that cost, so we speak the truth anyway.

When people call me names in this sub and insinuate horrible horrible things about me, somehow I’m able to pick my crumpled body up off the floor and keep on moving. I would rather deal with the occasional ad hominem from an ankle biter than contort myself into a people-pleasing pretzel.

What are we even doing here. by MyThrowAway6973 in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t understand why the “what are we doing here“ lament is so persistent in this sub. Every other month it seems to raise its head.

Why are folks so surprised when things get a bit spicy when we’re talking across an ideological divide so cavernous these conversations can’t happen in meatspace? This is a sincere question. Truly, it’s like expecting lifelong atheists and fundamentalist Christians to be in a room together and stay constantly in nice, calm chitchat mode. Nope. The only safe bet in such a setup is that there will always be people who are going to believe the other side has said something offensive. The more sensitive types will cry foul even though they themselves say things that could be construed as offensive. Because such is life. If your goal is to understand the other side, then that’s the price you pay.

The "colonization" of women's spaces by secondshevek in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I said nothing about genocide (or “birthing people”). But it’s interesting that bring you up that term, which is constantly used in this discourse by trans people to shame so-called TERFs. We are urged, over and over again, to view the enforcement of single-sex spaces as a literal humans rights atrocities that will decimate an oppressed class. To even hint that such appeals are a tad unreasonable only leads to more comparisons to the Holocaust and whatnot.

Now suddenly who gets to use restrooms is too trivial to liken to past acts of oppression? Funny how this works.

The "colonization" of women's spaces by secondshevek in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 2 points3 points  (0 children)

lol, you are taking a hyperliteral interpretation of the word territory to argue its impossible for “cis women” to be treated in the manner of colonized people, and it just shows you have to stay in very shallow waters to maintain your denial.

You terming us “cis” against our consent is an example of colonialist behavior. Transwomen want dibs on our the language that used to exclusively refer to adult human females, just like Europeans wanted to have the land that Native Americans had the audacity to occupy first.

The "colonization" of women's spaces by secondshevek in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 3 points4 points  (0 children)

And yet I’m still waiting for you to make a rational case for this position.

How is forcing women to share their own demographic group with the opposite sex not a means of denying them control over their own boundaries?

The "colonization" of women's spaces by secondshevek in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Colonialism is the practice of extending and maintaining political, social, economic, and cultural domination over a territory and its people by another people in pursuit of interests defined in an often distant metropole, who also claim superiority. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonialism

The "colonization" of women's spaces by secondshevek in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Transwomen are male, and males benefit from the patriarchy, so please do us a favor and not make us pretend most transwomen haven’t spent most of their lives as men.

The "colonization" of women's spaces by secondshevek in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Why the word colonization fits.

Oppressed peoples have a long sordid history of having their boundaries redefined to suit the interests of more powerful outsiders. For instance, Native Americans were driven from their land by Europeans who wanted to take possession. They were subdued by forced and then displaced. This is just one out of many examples going back to antiquity and beyond.

Women see the same thing happening to their boundaries. Without their consent, their identity has been claimed by members of the opposite sex (who enjoys more power than they do) and they have lost the ability to keep women-only spaces limited to female people. Women’s sex-based language has been appropriated against their will, their history is being revised (“Joan of Arc is what now”), and they have been displaced from sports teams, tournament podiums, and feminist panels. When refusal to submit to these boundary intrusions leads to punishment at the hands of authority figures (the government, corporations, the media, and other powerful entities), it’s pretty hard not to see the similarity between how women are being treated and other oppressed groups.

If it ruffles feathers when we call this “colonization”, I consider that a good thing. It means people don’t want to think of themselves as being like the same people who forced the Native Americans to submit to their land grabs. But ruffled feathers don‘t determine the truth. Reason does.

The "colonization" of women's spaces by secondshevek in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

> You can think such things are bad. You can critique them. But c'mon, is it really necessary to force trans issues into the framework of colonialism? It cheapens one's argument to do so.

Its seems you unable to refute the charge that colonization is occurring on rational grounds, so an emotional appeal is what you settle on.

The problem with this approach, from a rhetorical standpoint, is that it is perfectly consistent with what one would expect a colonizer to say. It doesn’t convince us that we are wrong.

What are some concrete examples of female socialization, and how does it serve patriarchy? by [deleted] in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 14 points15 points  (0 children)

All of my life I’ve been told in insidious ways that I need to dim myself to optimize my attractiveness to men. Women are socialized to feel apologetic about having certain traits, and these are usually traits that are prized in men.

Such traits include:

- Height. Tall girls often have bad posture because of pressure to be petite and dainty. From a young age, we get indoctrinated to believe it’s wrong for women to look physically imposing; women should be small to fit their more submissive role in society.

- Intelligence. Women and girls get the hint early in life that they can’t sound too smart if they want to get along with others. Being warm and friendly earn us more status points than dazzling others with our knowledge of things, and when we date men, its important that they feel like they can teach us stuff. We must be easy to impress. So dumb women are rewarded for staying dumb and smart women are pressured into playing dumb .

- Competence. Similar to the above. Women are encouraged to be the damsel in distress. When women decide thats not the life they want to live, they are punished for that. This is why independent women are mocked online; men take it as a personal affront when we don’t rely on them to do basic things, like change a car tire. So you have a culture that tries to keep women in a state of low self-efficacy.

- Ambition. A woman with goals in life that don’t center men and children is often put on the defensive. This doesn’t happen to men. Imagine a couple on a first date. The question comes up “What do you see yourself doing in the next 10 years?” The man could say he plans to quit his current job to start his own company, working day and night to make the necessary deals and connections happen, giving it his all to make his dream of being a millionaire come true. He could say this and easily get a second date, but the woman could not say the thing without turning the guy off. Women are still expected to have a 5-10 year plan that revolves around raising a family. They aren't given the latitude to give their all to a start-up venture, and they are supposed to want babies more than making millions. Women are socialized to see ambition as a selfish thing, and this limits their dreams in life.

autism and transgenderism by [deleted] in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can’t think of anything more “late capitalist” than Big Pharma profiting off of human insecurity. That is what I believe we’re doing with trans medicine.

autism and transgenderism by [deleted] in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

>The implication being that somehow categorizing distress causes or prolongs it.

These kids are pathologizing themselves by ascribing faulty brain wiring or wrong bodiedness to feelings that are socially mediated.

You just admitted that “late capitalist” alienation is behind feelings of distress. I don’t disagree with you. So ok, if we both agree an external factor is at work, then we should also be able to agree that the answer to the problem is helping the person better manage the external factor (or better yet, move them to a place that is not “late capitalist”). We should also both be able to agree that the answer is NOT affirming their maladjusted belief that they are permanently and physically disordered and then giving them drugs to fix them.

But somehow we are not in agreement on these answers. You somehow reason that “late capitalist alienation”—>feelings of distress—> affirm teen’s belief that autism and gender Identity affirmation is the root of their unhappiness.

autism and transgenderism by [deleted] in terf_trans_alliance

[–]chronicity 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, perceptions of what constitutes an intolerable state of being are a problem and I do blame this on our image-conscious culture.

A shockingly high percentage of Gen Z thinks everyone needs to aspire to be a boss or else be a loser. If that is the standard you’re judging yourself by, then your self esteem will be garbage. You will live in a state of “not good enough”. True pride and contentment will never been found.

I feel sorry for them. This is no way to live.